You know Panth Rework is balanced because he is at 43% win rate

5050BS·Aug 15, 2019·2 votes·1,914 views

The issue is that there are too many OP broken champ

24 Comments

Jimmy RustlesAug 15, 20198 votes

He was also just released and a bunch of people who have 0 idea what they're doing are playing him

Generally pointless to talk about win rates on a new launch champ

Divin1tyAug 15, 20192 votes

But, but Yuumi and Qiyana were so weak on Release, they had low Winrates!!!!

Wait a second..

RagnaveilAug 15, 20191 votes

This isn't that situation, I can tell you that.

Divin1tyAug 15, 20192 votes

They said the same thing back then. Maybe don't judge a Champion in low Elo and on the first day of release.

RagnaveilAug 15, 20191 votes

Idk, Panth is pretty shit at the moment, and no amount of "learning the champ" is gonna put him up to 50%, because he already has a low skill floor.

preternaturalAug 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Idk, Panth is pretty shit at the moment, and no amount of "learning the champ" is gonna put him up to 50%, because he already has a low skill floor.

skill floor is raised thanks to his new passive.

EedatAug 15, 20192 votes

because he already has a low skill floor

So does Yuumi

RagnaveilAug 15, 20192 votes

Yuumi takes like nothing, and it shows with how disgusting it is to play against one.

EedatAug 15, 20192 votes

And she also had a bad winrate on release

HotarµAug 15, 20192 votes

Idk, Panth is pretty shit at the moment, and no amount of "learning the champ" is gonna put him up to 50%, because he already has a low skill floor.

And... where exactly is your evidence for him being "pretty shit"?

The fact is that the rework just came out, a bunch of people are first timing the champion (subsequently bringing his winrate down) in addition to veteran players trying to get a hang of his new kit.

He's different, and adapting to change takes time.

RagnaveilAug 15, 20191 votes

I've already tried to "get a hang of his new kit" and know how to use him. However, that doesnt mean I can win with him off the bat with how he is right now. Mortal Bonus just rips every bit of damage he could need for the early game and shoves it on a one usage passive. Morde's early is ass, but it does better than Panth's.

HotarµAug 15, 20193 votes

Gotcha, so your only evidence of him being objectively bad is... because you can't find success with him?

It's been one day. One day.

How about we wait atleast a week before we start throwing out these baseless claims?

RagnaveilAug 15, 20191 votes

Sure, lets give it a week. I bet the winrate will still paint the picture.

KazekibaAug 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

But, but Yuumi and Qiyana were so weak on Release, they had low Winrates!!!!

Wait a second..

I played Yuumi for like 2 games and a couple of theorycrafting builds on PBE and knew she was broken as all hell, people just attached and did nothing else and then complained they lost. I'm sure if Blitz used his Q exclusively on minions and tried to run up to people to use E he would have a 34% WR too.

Qiyana by design would be expected to have a low WR on release, Assassins arent supposed to be near or at 50% if balanced and her skill floor is a little bit higher than most. Riot even said that she ;looked as strong as anticipated and didn't need hotfix buffs

Divin1tyAug 15, 20191 votes

That is the joke behind that. People always rush to reddit/boards/twitter to talk about how weak the champion is, just because they are bad at them. Let it settle and let Caps experiment with it, lol.

and didn't need hotfix buffs

But Nerfs, which are still planned and which she already received some.

GelsominoKillerAug 17, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jimmy Rustles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uErQ0WAB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-15T14:58:13.599+0000)

He was also just released and a bunch of people who have 0 idea what they're doing are playing him

Generally pointless to talk about win rates on a new launch champ

In this case, however, Pantheon's kit is straight-forward and easy to use. For simple champions (like Mordekaiser), release winrates are much more reliable than complex/unique ones (like Yuumi).

That said, I'd wait to see if he needs something or not. Better to be cautious than to hotfix buff him.

EedatAug 15, 20194 votes

Wow a rework/release champ has a low winrate days after it hits live. That's never happened before

preternaturalAug 15, 20192 votes

no one knows how to play him.

Blumpkin NationAug 15, 20192 votes

...It's been a day. A lot of people (experienced and not) are playing him and will most likely lose until they get better at him. Wait 2 weeks before you pull that kind of data lol.

BeatzBoyFTWAug 15, 20192 votes

It's....literally been A DAY since his release.....

MakarakarnAug 15, 20191 votes

It's because he's similar to old panth, but deceptively similar. His abilities and playstyle are really quite nearly the same, however HOW you actually have to play is different. Actually aiming q, setting up your passive with different combos if W-AA-Q isn't optimal, positioning ult, timing E, ect. There's more room to make cool plays, but there's also more room to mess up. Old Pantheon was extremely black and white. There really wasn't anything about the player involved, just what the matchup was ect. Trust me, once people learn him I imagine he'll probably just be the same or higher win rate than old Panth.

Kai GuyAug 15, 20191 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]**[zombie-brand-mindblown]

HajictanAug 23, 20191 votes

many days later many panth games later as a panth main I can say his dmg is 3-4 times less then prior for the E invincibility they added, they took the dmg from everywhere else, W lvl is cd and nothing else(dmg is like +20 a lvl which is nonexistent) E dmg even when maxed can be compared to an AA the best way to use E for dmg is E cancel for the explosion dmg, I and most others only use it once in an extended fight for dmg canceling the other one is just purely for dmg that it does not do, his q if not charged vs a guy that has no armor behind his minions does no dmg, q can be used as wave clear on backline and full all in combo with double empowered proc if you start with empowered W then hail of bales or pta 2 auto then empowered Q for max dmg E afterwards is finnicky because it slows you can you can often miss that one so I calculated only the W auto auto Q which with 140 ish ad vs an guy with 100 armor does around 750 dmg. other than that that combo you can maybe get twice off in an extended fight that last around 30 seconds which means you will do about 1500+5 AA and one normal Q worth of dmg in best case scenario... [sg-ahri-1]