Preseason goals of "Comebacks more achievable" & "Decided games resolve faster" seem contradictory

Apostle of Light·Oct 23, 2018·43 votes·14,366 views

Maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't make sense to me how both of those goals can be achieved

33 Comments

ModThe DjinnOct 23, 201826 votes

It's a bit weird, but here's how I see it working:

Winning a teamfight against a team that is meaningfully ahead should give you more opportunity to equalize things. Increased bounty, more major objectives, and more fragile towers in the late-game allow you more opportunities to take meaningful actions to try to catch up.
Winning a teamfight against a team that is meaningfully behind should give you more opportunity to close out a game. More fragile towers and more major objectives let you do this.

Apostle of LightOct 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uEJ4Jqhy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-23T22:39:17.119+0000)

It's a bit weird, but here's how I see it working:

Winning a teamfight against a team that is meaningfully ahead should give you more opportunity to equalize things. Increased bounty, more major objectives, and more fragile towers in the late-game allow you more opportunities to take meaningful actions to try to catch up.

Winning a teamfight against a team that is meaningfully behind should give you more opportunity to close out a game. More fragile towers and more major objectives let you do this.

That makes sense I guess. It'll be interesting to see how it all comes together

DeusVultOct 24, 20184 votes

They also reduced the amount of time it takes for Baron/Drags/Elder to spawn, so teams that are ahead dont wait 3-4 minutes to take an objective so that they can securely push.

They also buffed minions so that teams who manage waves can look to end on that wave crashing.

The more comebacks thing seems to be in the pre 15-20 minute mark, so that the game isnt comepletely decided pre 10 minutes because 1 lane (bot lane) died 2-3 times and the other team combos that with first turret and drag.

AseraanOct 24, 20182 votes

Its still going to be decided by one boosted bonobo tho.......

Z3SleeperOct 24, 20181 votes

Nothing they can do to fix that one though.

AseraanOct 25, 20181 votes

As much as i hate to say its true.

Velzard of KozOct 24, 20181 votes

Just like when the Alexandrian Library burned

ÆtheistOct 23, 201815 votes

You're supposed to achieve the comeback before the game is decided, ideally.

Basically they want to shift the "point of no return" farther back, but if you do cross that point, the game should be able to be closed out quicker so you're not just delaying the inevitable for the losing side.

Apostle of LightOct 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You're supposed to achieve the comeback before the game is decided, ideally.

Basically they want to shift the "point of no return" farther back, but if you do cross that point, the game should be able to be closed out quicker so you're not just delaying the inevitable for the losing side.

Okay, I do like that idea. Hopefully the changes work out !

HethaleanOct 23, 201812 votes

But honestly with like 50 second death timers at 20 minutes, idk wtf else they can do without just making the game excruciating. There's already just so much unfun "I can't do anything" shit that's going on in the game anyway.

charge attackOct 24, 20181 votes

I think stronger outer/inner turrets to make your defense.

More frequent baron spawn so if the winning team can secure multiple barons then it’s probably over anyways.

AseraanOct 24, 20181 votes

Tell me about it im afraid to fking die during a game cuz im afraid the screen will stay gray forever. Just seriusly why it has to be so fking long so early?

ModCaptainMårvelousOct 24, 20185 votes

An easy way to phrase it.

Riot wants to make a game that has a split of 40/60 easier to come back from. Riot also wants to make a game that has a split of 5/95 quicker to resolve.

agac4234Oct 24, 20184 votes

if the game is 20-0 in 13 min they want to make it so that the team with 20 kills can end faster. but if the game is 12-8 tehy want to make it so that ppl can come back

AseraanOct 25, 20181 votes

Fun fact when the game is 12 8 i am 12 0 as the jungler and my team flaming each other bard supp trolling on mid/top my mid is a trashuo playing kai sa flaming the others probably me too idk cuz #/muteall my nasus top flaming bard for trolling and my adc doesnt know what the actualy fuk is going on.

Than i bring up the question whats the fuking point me hard stomping silver 3-2 and 1 than the game still wont let me to get to fking gold 5 cuz fk me for wanting the victorius skin BUT the moment im silver 2 again i do sht like 1v 9 udyr jungle and solobaron at 22:00 6 level higher than the enemy. Whats the fuking point ?

This is a little rant sry. Im a bit angry not because im not gold 5 this year not evn playing ori also have the darkstar oriana and the skin doesnt even look good. Not because i got chatbanned again for telling ppl all kinds of sht like how to be less of a trash player or how im fking sick of playing 1v9 cuz if you want to climb you better CLENCH UP MASTER Yi. Not becasue if i want to play anything else i cant fking pull off cuz its not a heavy pumbstomper so i cant 1v9. Not becasue i get chatbanned for telling ppl we are gone lose if i dont carry their feeding pice of sht ass BUT

BUTT im mad cuz ppl can tell me to get cancer or kill myself or just die and its fine my report is worthless anyway cuz what else is worse than telling someone to die ??? Aperently telling them they are a fucking feeder is worse.......

TLDR: Sry i wasnt aiming you whit anything it just came out could not stand it. It was just my recent game im not even tilted its just sad.....take my upvote i aggre you can make comebacks still low elo is retarded the game should be never balanced around a bunch of potatoe farmers.

agac4234Oct 25, 20181 votes

i know it suckes but lol is a team game after all where the better TEAM wins nt the better carry sometimes it does happen where the better carries win but that doesnt happen alot. but i feel you when i was silver 2-3 i got like 2 bronze 3s in my team like every game. its tilting but thats the matchmakers fault.i would recommend taking less kills if youre already ahead so that ur teams can carry them selves. i would recommend playing carry champions too like kayn and graves.

AseraanOct 25, 20181 votes

Taking less kills? From who? they either dead not there at all or im totaly solo killing and even than when they are there why should i spare him the gold when he cant tell a caster from a meele creep? Ha whats the point feeding gold into them when they are doing dumb sht like

split pushing gunso rageblade cho gath top 5 15?

agac4234Oct 28, 20181 votes

becuase u dont have a choice, if u cant 1v9 u have to 5v5 its a simple as that. ur team cant help you out they dont have any items. am not saying dont get gold ur self, just make sure that they get some too what i mean by that is if u are 8/0 u probably dont need more gold so let them get the kills

anhatonOct 23, 20183 votes

It's Riot, you really expect them to have their thoughts together? They backtrack and contradict on statements all the fucking time.

deadlychuckOct 24, 20183 votes

They've had contradictory goals for years now. Just look at some of the MYMU goals ...

AseraanOct 24, 20182 votes

Those should have never happened at all noone in the right mind would say:

Hey lets have a second preseason but during a season. .Thats brilliant ship it!!!

DarukongSrOct 24, 20182 votes

The way I see it is, there's a point in many games where one team is 95% likely to win, but often the team that is extremely disadvantaged and likely to lose can stall for another 10 or 20 mins. What they are attempting to do is make a "decided" game like that less easy to stall so that the known conclusion will happen and players can move on quicker. Then there are games where one team could meaningfully and realistically come back and win, but they are behind, hence comeback. In other words, the team that is winning had cinched the knot, and the outcome is not a given. The way things currently are, it can be difficult to mount a comeback in this super snowballs meta when a comeback is otherwise possible.

SéanceOct 23, 20181 votes

link?

DerMangoJoghurtOct 23, 20182 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/NPBRPjqf-preseason-dev-update-number-3

HethaleanOct 23, 20181 votes

Well those comeback mechanics can probably decide the games. Like a sneaky baron or something

Hong Kong AnnieOct 24, 20181 votes

Alot of these changes seem weird. Like all of the minion, and neutral objective changes just seem like a way for the team that is ahead to win more. I don't see a change yet that can slow down the game and give the losing team a chance to come back.

But who knows it's still early and they might have alot more changed in store.

Tomoe GozenOct 24, 20182 votes

The changes were meant to address both games that are 60-40 and 10-90 in terms of being ahead. Really close games (60-40) shouldn't feel like the losing team doesn't have a fair chance to come back while the mostly lost games (10-90), shouldn't feel like they are an inevitable loss after 20 minutes.

If you lose hard, just lose faster instead of having to painfully and meaninglessly fight back for 20+ minutes, leading to the same outcome even after 1-2 good fights.

RacoonHunterOct 24, 20181 votes

After watching almost all of worlds, I have to say that with the average of games being decided basically after the first baron (with one or two RARE exceptions) I have to say that I'm agreeing with them.

some of the best games at worlds have been when teams make a comeback (c9 for example), BUT a lot of these teams only were able to make a comeback because they either had baron, or stole it (the ornn god). I shouldn't have to rely on a monster such as baron or hell, even rift herald, to help make a comeback. Changing the way towers and minions work, will make the game less "I HAVE to get X minion to stand a chance" and especially less , "oh they have baron, we're fudged". Hell, for those who've watched worlds.. how many games have gone to 2 barons? Not a whole lot.

Now, if they really want to make games more achievable for comebacks they'd nerf the power of rift herald, elder dragon, and baron as well, or hell, make it so when you get a bounty not only do you get more gold, but more experience on the kill as well..

RaiyzaOct 24, 20181 votes

See, that's honestly bullshit when it comes to a competitive skill-based game where players are trying to climb the ladder.

For normals, sure this may be fine. For ranked, Fuck no. I wanna make a comeback. I want to make a game winning play. I don't how care how far the enemy team is.

AseraanOct 25, 20181 votes

Well the thing is you should care FROm the start of the game....not diyng 10 times IS making a winning game a lot of you dont understand that....

4nswerOct 25, 20181 votes

So are "being able to carry a feeding teammate" and "reducing snowballing"

TotalJerkOct 25, 20181 votes

There's two problems League has had for years:

When one team gets ahead it is pretty much almost entirely on them to throw than it is on the losing team to recover.
When a game is obviously over and the losing team has no realistic way of recovering, games can still drag out because the losing team can delay the inevitable (and is expected to because giving up is frowned upon) and the winning team has to jump through a bunch of hoops to actually blow up the nexus.