Riot should do an in-client survey to all accounts asking about DQ vs SQ and share the results.

Apostle of Light·Jun 4, 2016·197 votes·4,938 views

This would actually provide evidence that DQ-haters are a "minority" as they've said. Personally I doubt it's as much of a "minority" as they think...

129 Comments

Irelia BotJun 4, 201647 votes

They will not.

And if they did they would word the questioln in bias ways to make it look like people support Dynamic over Solo/duo.

Velzard of KozJun 4, 20163 votes

Plus many people can't tell NChS from DQ.

ReconnectedJun 4, 20162 votes

"Getting your main role in season 6 is great isnt it? By the way do you like Dynamic queue which came out in season 6?"

-Riot Games Survey.

edit; for real though the amount of people who dont know the difference between new champ select and DQ is absurd.

LICENSED HOOKERJun 6, 20161 votes

"Would you like to continue to play with friends in ranked matches on the lovely dynamic que?" or "Want to go back to a time of long wait times and being lonely?"

-Riot2k16

General Esdeath Jun 4, 201635 votes

"How do you feel about Dynamic Queue"

It's the best thing Riot ever made
It's the best thing Riot made in season 6

Velzard of KozJun 4, 20163 votes

This reminds me of old socialistic results. ,,The plan has been fullfilled with 150% success" Later jokes ,,We had good survey participation, 150% people went to vote." Sweet age when everything was "so successfull" by someone's results.

BakedLotionJun 4, 201625 votes

Yeah. They'll ask "Do you enjoy playing with friends?" Instead of "Do you like Dynamic Queue or Solo Queue?"

jr deputy meowJun 4, 201618 votes

pretty much as irelia bot says they only ever throw out surveys to prove a biased point

VerreusJun 4, 201612 votes

I firmly believe there is no ranked mode in league, and that there never will be a true ranked mode until it is based around 2 q's a 5 man premade q and a solo q where you can ONLY q alone.

FlitcheeJun 4, 20163 votes

You see, now this is a terrible argument. Right now you are saying the ranked is bad, (which it is kinda sketchy, sure) but as soon as sq would come back, you'd see the same old threads as these, but instead of claiming dq/premades are responsible for people losing, or bad match quality, or poor experiences, it would be them getting matched with noobs, or toxic soloq players. Riot can't win with this community, you can't please everyone, everything they do SOMEBODY whines about it, and because its a large community and people in general just like complaining to complain, it starts a huge shitstorm. In all honesty, I personally think the only people that actually have grounds on complaining about dq, is very high elo players, because there is actually glaring problems with the system in that elo bracket due to the the low number of players in that specific elo bracket.

blacknerdtakuJun 5, 20162 votes

No, people took issue with Duoed players before, they always added an extra level of toxicity to the game.

The problem here isnt that the playerbase is never happy, it's that this Dynamic queue made that original duo problem 3x worse.

No matter what Riot says logic has to apply - If you queue up together with 3 of your friends you will inevitably run into a solo player who now faces a COMPLETE disadvantage, a disadvantage with his own team communication in relation to him, and knowing that the enemy ALSO has that communication.

FlitcheeJun 5, 20161 votes

You see here, I never found duos to even be a problem. The people that did well, again another scapegoat as to why they lose. Every time i saw one, it felt as if they either hid it, or if they said say duo bot for example, they got flamed the entire game. They could be the only reason that their team is in the game, but it would still end up being their "fault" for being a duo.

blacknerdtakuJun 5, 20161 votes

well no. duo flaming did happen all the time. and it usually came from Duo's themselves refusing to admit that one of them was in the wrong, what would happen is one of them would flame, and their friend would flame as well

making 2/5 of the team useless flamers, which baits more flaming and causes losses.

During my final climb out of the pit of bronze i got held back a lot by this kind of duo behaviour, and simply asked if we had any duo's onboard so i'd have my mute button ready. And when it happened it was the most infuriating thing ever....

But hey, now if the 4 man group you're teamed with starts losing, its now 100% your fault sooooo.

Project RivenJun 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

well no. duo flaming did happen all the time. and it usually came from Duo's themselves refusing to admit that one of them was in the wrong, what would happen is one of them would flame, and their friend would flame as well

making 2/5 of the team useless flamers, which baits more flaming and causes losses.

During my final climb out of the pit of bronze i got held back a lot by this kind of duo behaviour, and simply asked if we had any duo's onboard so i'd have my mute button ready. And when it happened it was the most infuriating thing ever....

But hey, now if the 4 man group you're teamed with starts losing, its now 100% your fault sooooo.

Lol I was just in a game with a duo bot. 3/4 ez and 3/5 thresh. Thresh started flaming me when I got 0/3 top lane. Then ez went off while thresh just stfu.

That really made my game play experience very pleasant.

FlitcheeJun 7, 20161 votes

That is not really the case. See, sure that would happen, but it was not as frequently as you make it out to be. A lot of the time, especially since sites people use for game trackers used to show who was a premade, if a premade or duo in this case made a mistake, people would start flaming them, claiming they always get trash duos, and what have you. As for your claim about this happening in bronze, well you see, bronze is the epitome of needless flame, sure flaming occurs at all elo brackets, but atleast in higher elo, people have a general basis on their flaming for game reasons other than, the classic, wow you're a noob you suck. As for claiming that it held you back, well that there is just the problem. It is just as much of an excuse as always getting feeders.

blacknerdtakuJun 7, 20161 votes

Before quitting, i played this game both solo and as a 4 man party. Every time, repeat every time I party queued the poor sap who was solo was always being called "bad" and i would have to defend the guy to my friends because im aware he's not really Bad, as much as he's not a part of the clique so of course he's not going to follow our no ping voice chat plays.

Ive also been the solo player and had this happen to me. And when they lose because you werent communicating as well as them and their friendly voice chat the solo player gets the blame. This happens to bronze, silver, and gold players.

As Anecdotal as this is you have to realize that im not speaking just from my own experiences but the experiences of friends who are significantly better than me.

And if you think bronze is the worst Ive watched my plat friends play as well.... from behind their backs. the flaming was immense.

And yes, it does hold people back. Why? because flaming loses games that in a ranked system is an IMMEDIATE set back. All it takes is for one guy on your team to say the wrong thing and KABOOM your team collapses because they're too busy arguing (or damage controlling) inevitably missing plays, and costing the game - which in turn tilts the player. Same story with feeders. Saying "I always get feeders, that's why i cant climb" is an excuse, pointing out that people who's toxic bullshit cost games (and ALWAYS IN FUCKING PROMOS FOR SOME FUCKING REASON) is not an excuse. It's in the fucking client for god's sake.

people who flame their teamates lose [number that i forgot] more games.

this means that their toxicity is the cause of a lot of these losses.

A lot of people's frustration with this is the division promo system. Do the math from season 5 here. you have to play at LEAST 5 games to jump up a division, then win 2 games to make it into that next division. Say for example during 2 of those promo games you run into the trolling, feeding teammates who make life a living hell. (hell even Dunkey, a Plat player had this happen to him in Silver Promos) well now you have to play 4-5 games just to get back to where you were.... ALSO, if you were at 0 LP for the previous division you now have to win 4 games to get back to where you were... it's frustrating as hell, and a very hard wall to moving up in your division and making it out. Riot implemented some alleviation to this by offering free wins, but jesus was it frustrating. Even good players could attest that Elo hell does exist for somebody whp's at least 1 division better than his teammates.

But i digress. It was frustrating - that's all you need to know.

InsanitysTheNameJun 5, 20162 votes

Can I just propose a question to you because I can't find anyone who can answer this. If a matchmaking system is developed that states your team (a group of solos) playing against an enemy team (a 5 man group) has a 50% chance to win, is that a fair game? Considering that the matchmaking algorithms have been highly tested and developed with data inclusions such as an offset for premade size, amount of times that group has played together, as well as MMR and other factors.

I think that system is fair. I believe the issue so many people on reddit and the boards has is a fundamental issue that a solo rating can be derived from a non-solo queue. I wonder why though as the way I see it, if league of legends is a team game, then a team queue should be implemented, and while the rating you get from it is no longer a truly solo rating, the rating is a better reflection of your true skill at league as it represents your skill playing as a team. That part is my opinion so it shows my support of a dynamic queue system.

Putting that aside however, I believe that if Riot further develops their matchmaker so that the system is correct in all instances and puts you between a 53% and 47% chance at winning with the inclusion of the factors above, dynamic queue would seem a lot more fair in the eyes of the solo queue supporters. Im wondering if I'm slightly correct in your eyes on that.

blacknerdtakuJun 5, 20161 votes

Can I just propose a question to you because I can't find anyone who can answer this. If a matchmaking system is developed that states your team (a group of solos) playing against an enemy team (a 5 man group) has a 50% chance to win, is that a fair game?

No.

having the numbers even out to 50% winrate means that you're going to have to do some incredible elo trickery. In other words the enemy team of solos facing against the 5 man group would have to be at least 1 whole tier above the teamed up characters. Keep in mind, the people on the team can have at least 5 divisions between then, ex: A team of Silver 5 to 1 players in a 5 man group would have to face off against a team of Gold 5 - Gold 1 players.... The thing is, Gold 5's skill cap is significantly different from Gold 1's since they aren't communicating it could cause toxicity issues... also Just because somebody is soloing in gold, doesnt mean they are gold skill, thanks to dynamic boost people can get boosted into gold, without actually belonging there.

and thatere lies the issue, even then, the numbers could never be 50/50.

I wonder why though as the way I see it, if league of legends is a team game, then a team queue should be implemented,

We had that, it was called ranked 5's and it worked very well. Golds could play ranked with their bronze friends without the need for a smurf. and here's the thing it was there if you WANTED TO CHOSE TO PLAY with a team... there is that keyword, "choose"

Also here's the kicker EVERY SPORT EVER works the way LoL used to work.

Basketball is a team game

you still had the option to play 1 v 1
5 strangers vs 5 strangers
or get on a team and practice together
nowhere in ranked basketball play is a random dude from off the street allowed to fill in for a team with missing members, it's an immediate handicap for both parties.

That's the problem. Solo ranked is infinitely better

and while the rating you get from it is no longer a truly solo rating, the rating is a better reflection of your true skill at league as it represents your skill playing as a team.

FALSE What if that same person who played premades to get to gold suddenly played alone for whatever reason? youy're still saying "he's really gold?" no he's not really gold, he's a silver player with competent friends and a voice chat advantage

Skill isnt just some 1 dimensional thing. When you play with a team of people you know, you're less likely to try new things. What about the ability to adapt to playing with other randoms? Your ability to learn when to carry, and when act more as a support or utility. Leaning how to think quickly and for yourself? Not have somebody in a call tell you where to go to optimize their play, but rather YOU know where to be to optimize their play (or somebody more deserving).

Playing Solo reflects your ability to play with a team, filled with people you dont know all facing the same circumstance with the same objective. **But you're still playing as a team ** Playing with 5's is just you playing with people you know.

Dont falsely equate "playing premade" to "playing as a team" That right off the bat is a bad argument to make. Regardless of how you play, you're playing as a team. one queue just requires a LOT more adaptation to your surroundings - which i would argue is inherently a better way to see how skilled somebody is.

Putting that aside however, I believe that if Riot further develops their matchmaker so that the system is correct in all instances and puts you between a 53% and 47% chance at winning with the inclusion of the factors above, dynamic queue would seem a lot more fair in the eyes of the solo queue supporters. Im wondering if I'm slightly correct in your eyes on that.

Ive said it bvefore, the system is INHERENTLY BROKEN. you will never fix those issues without creating an infuriating game to play in.... at that point you would have to do some massive MMR trickery, and bullshit in a system that also encourages smurfing and boosting. And that's just to "balance" the numbers. But here's the thing - this isnt about numbers.

People dont want to play with or against large premades. it's not fun. it's inherently more toxic since the solo players get left out. And even still you dont understand.... Getting ganked by a coordinated 5 man, using a communication method NOT NATIVE to the game IS BROKEN it's not a matter of skill at that point, and what;s the solo player to do? type to his team who may all have different agendas? No matter what you do in that situation you will more than likely die, and it doesnt have anything to do with skill, at that point it boils down to which team has more communication.

Dynamic queue can never be fair. if you balance the queue to give ceertain players at certain MMRs all it would do is 1: drastically increase queue times 2: It wouldnt fix the issue that people playing alone dont want to face a fucking premade 3: still wouldnt address the massive communication disadvantage 4: would force those communicating to play against people way higher than their skill thereby NULLIFYING THEIR RANKING.

Why should ranks even exist if this is the case?

This is the problem. before you had a solo ranking and a team ranking, now you have a solo ranking that shows off how far you got ass a team. the two should never interact. they're too different with an entirely different set of skills required for each.

at no point in any of this are you even remotely correct. But i do ask you

why are you so onboard with riot removing options from the game, and blatantly lying about it to the consumer's face?

InsanitysTheNameJun 7, 20161 votes

I think you bring up a lot of valid points. What I was really looking for was a long, coherent post that was not a rage fest and accuratly displayed solo-queue supporters thought process. You delivered on that so thank you. I'm definetly not a supporter of the way Riot failed the community with the way it communicated about solo-queue and I honestly doubt any dynamic queue supporter is. I want to ask one counterarguement although I agree that both solo-queue and dynamic queue measue different things and dynamic queue is assuredly a more diluted rating system, are there not upsides noone is mentioning (if dynamic queue was in its perfect state) such as lower queue times, more people on ladder, and thererfore the ability for fairer matches. Do these help set aside some of the negatives?

DeathTheHorsemanJun 7, 20161 votes

I read your entire comment and it boils down to this:

Ranked is not your individual skill anymore
Premades are toxic to the solo player
Voice chat is an unfair advantage.

_**

=> League of Legends is a team game. There is no INDIVIDUAL in a true team. Meaning your point is invalid. All 5 members need to do their duty to climb the elo. True someone who plays exceptionally well can give them an edge to climb higher but ultimately he won't carry you all the way to his elo. Lets say a diamond is playing with 4 friends who are bronze. He can carry them to silver and maybe even gold but not beyound that unless the 4 bronze tiers improve. They will not always play together and the bronzes will fall and eventually end up where he is meant to be with a stable MMR.
Premades can be toxic to the solo. Especially if he is having a bad game, however this changes nothing from solo que. 1-1-1-1 were as likely to all blame you for losing if you were doing bad as a 4 is. The only difference is that the 4 will probably be a lot less toxic to each other meaning that there will be no arguments in your team even if someone screws up, unless you want to start them.
Riot should make voice chat part of the client. This is hands down the issue at the moment. Coordination and co-operation of premades is a lot better because of voice coms and this is where the frustration comes from.

Solution: Add voice coms to the client.

blacknerdtakuJun 9, 20161 votes

1:"there is in fact an individual in a true team game." FALSE

Regardless of it being a team game if the individual is incompetent you're going to have a bad time. Solo queue struck a balance between the individual, and the team. the better you got at communicating and handling toxic situations the higher you climbed.

LoL is a team game, cool but there is still and individualist aspect of every team game. Being able to play on a team of premades you trust results in you having less to compensate for. A premade in a chat can just say "MIA" or "watch out dude headed top" and now you're looking at the map to see where the oncoming gank is from. Had you not been in that premade that couple of seconds of neglegence would have resulted in death. And i still ask what was wrong with ranked 5vs? You had the option to chose between solo, or with a team. There are so many games that can be played solo or with a team. Also what if i dont have close friends that play LoL? then what?

Why remove features? Your rank means nothing to a ladder that accepts premade 5s as well as solo.

If you dont believe me look at ANY huge game with a meta. Yugioh: you have teams and solo play MTG: Teams and solo play D&D: teams or solo play any MMORPG: Teams, Guilds, or lone gun play FPS games Teams or solo Smash Forumula: Solo, 1v1, random teams, premade teams, pro play DOTA2: Solo and Dynamic queue IRL sports: Solo practice, 1 v 1, random people teaming up, semi pro, school/work teams, professional.

Dont feed me BS about these games having no aspect of the individual. You think any major sports player played every one of his games with teams and didnt have to work on his INDIVIDUAL SKILL to be worth a damn?

if a true team game "doesnt have individualistc features" then why do all these other games solo or team OFFER UP OTHER FEATURES? Here's why. because the player can CHOSE how he wants to play.

2: The difference is simple, actually. Usually the team woul harp on whoever is doing the worst, but that's not the problem. Immediate advantage, through an extra party sofware, and a buddy-system. Before, solo those 1 1 1 1 1 players were all under the EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES. Now they're not. Why should a 4 man premade give a fuck about that one random? And again I ask, why remove the feature of ranked 5vs?

Secondly if you think toxicity is just "arguments" you're not very bright. As said previously, promenades are usually buddy-buddy. Their LACK OF COMMUNICATION with the solo player is just as bad as chat greifing. and can have the same results. If they [the solo] engage on something the team could have won, you say "no i dont trust this guy, let me follow my friend Joe" He gets killed even though it was a great engage. the enemy team gets ahead, he gets behind, and the team is left saying "man this solo sucks" not to his face, but it's still there.

He picked up on an opportunity, he didn't have time to type it out so he had to go on faith that the premades would follow, and got killed as a result. That mutual barrier between players is a BIG problem for a ranking system.

3: Agreed I have posts on it for this season and Last but they dont want to add voice chat. for whatever reason. Riot has proven how shitty they are as a company, the very fact that you cant set the settings of a bot game when every other MOBA lets you is already huge problem. But again that still has not solved the barrier of trust between players.

No matter how you shake it, one of the biggest problems with LoL s a game is a lack of trust between players. Dynamic queue, ironically widens the Gap, and kills off ranked integrity in the process. Even a voice chat wont fix that issue. Anybody with a functional brain cell should know that matching alone with other solo players, is NOT the same as matching with teamed up players, so why are they on the same ladder?

69982196_DELJun 4, 201612 votes

They'll ask "do you like the new champion select?"

No, the true test, but Riot would never dare" is to put both DQ and SQ.

Karn BishopJun 4, 20164 votes

nods, riot practices bias statistics and it is just saddening.

KnalxzJun 4, 20164 votes

Dynamic queue on it's own isn't the problem it's the fact that you can't just go play by yourself and not be paired with a premade. It also get's worse in higher levels because of how easy it is to boost in this new system.

It's created an environment of low skill and forced team play.

YouPoroJun 4, 20163 votes

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4m7r9o/dynamic_q_megathread/d3v7l50?context=1

BakedLotionJun 5, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brucee Vayne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tg1ZkNlE,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-06-04T16:54:24.178+0000)

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4m7r9o/dynamic_q_megathread/d3v7l50?context=1

It's funny cause like, I've never had a single one of those surveys and I play a few games a day and i check my email everyday...

RoyaiChaosJun 5, 20161 votes

I don't think checking your email/playing more games makes a huge difference in getting these surveys. Anyways, they definitely exist, I've had a few before.

BakedLotionJun 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think checking your email/playing more games makes a huge difference in getting these surveys. Anyways, they definitely exist, I've had a few before.

Yeah. So they select a few group of people to do the surveys, which is CLEARLY biased. They send it to people who will most likely agree with Riot's survey. If you want a real non-biased survey, you have to send it to EVERYONE.

RoyaiChaosJun 5, 20161 votes

Ummm no. They send it to random people. You obviously have no idea how this works.

MirkhailJun 4, 20163 votes

There are a few problems: not all people play ranked; People can attribuite to premades their losses; There is a lot of confusion between dq and the ncs; A lot of people on both sides are misformed; If the survey is not obligatory it will give wrong result,

Before people vote they need to read a good neutral article with both pro and cons and other problems.

1MazaJun 5, 20163 votes

They would have to put a disclaimer that "Dynamic Q and the new Champ Select are not related", then the vote would probably be at least 70% in favor of Solo Q if not more. But people are too stupid to realize we can have the new Champ Select and role selection AND Solo Q, so they'd just vote for Dynamic out of ignorance. And Riot would never put that disclaimer for that reason. Lol

macromiteJun 4, 20161 votes

dyna haters area a minority, even on the boards. there was a boards poll a while ago, and while more people thought dyna was bad than dyna was good, people that didn't care and pro dyna outnumbered dyna haters.

Keep in mind that was on the boards, the place with the highest number of dyna haters available, and you still lost.

The DeckownerJun 4, 20169 votes

So you are saying people who don't care= support dynamic queue? So everyone who doesn't vote in the election supports donald trump? Nice fucking logic.

macromiteJun 4, 20161 votes

wanting dyna means dyna stays hating dyna means dyna goes

not caring means why change anything. not changing anything means dyna stays.

The DeckownerJun 4, 20163 votes

LMAO LMFAO You can put your same stupid logic to when dynamic queue wasn't here and solo queue was what we have. Dynamic queue is the stupid change that no one wants.

macromiteJun 4, 20161 votes

that was before, this is after. you can't just take a step back, there isn't a rewind button for life. we can only hope to keep things working well enough while we can.

The DeckownerJun 4, 20163 votes

There is a rewind button it's call bring back solo queue. The old system works, the new system is garbage and it is creating shit tons of stupid problems that would exist in the first place if the system isn't implemented. Dynamic queue brought nothing but issues.

macromiteJun 4, 20161 votes

the fact that you think this makes me happy that you don't work for riot, lest truly terrible things would occur.

You are thinking about this from only one perspective, and due to that you are inexcusably wrong.

The DeckownerJun 4, 20161 votes

So you rather have Rito socrates who made the pros leave live server? Rito is only making dynamic queue in the perspective of premades(watch the roundtable video everything they said that were good about dynamic queue were only good if you play in a premade), meawhile majority of the players are solo.

macromiteJun 4, 20161 votes

I think I can summarize why anyone who thinks dyna should be reverted is stupid.

You can't solve a complex issue like ranked with a simple answer like solo queue.

The DeckownerJun 5, 20161 votes

solo queue had much less problem than dynamic queue. solo queue needed improvement because it isn't perfect, but dynamic queue needs tons of bandaids to just stay together. in terms of making a good ranked system, there is no reason to start on dynamic queue instead of solo queue.

macromiteJun 5, 20161 votes

solo had tons of bandaids on it, no reason to get so up in arms over dyna when it hasn't even had time to develop yet. when it's developed, at least a little bit past the original idea, it will be leaps and bounds better than solo ever could be.

The DeckownerJun 5, 20162 votes

what are the bandaidon solo queue? i have playedthis game for 2 years and when I was playing solo queue there was no change made on the queue system specifically. dynamic queue had been out for 6 months, it had received more changes and temporory fixes than solo queue had for 7 years, it is a foundamentally broken system and no matter how long rito keep "improving" it, it will still be trash.

SeekerofSilenceJun 5, 20161 votes

Except we don't know that for sure.

There's also the question of ranked integrity. Normals and ranked, take a pick. They're 100% the same, and I've seen so many casual premades going ranked because it's not any different, if anything slightly better matchmaking.

macromiteJun 5, 20161 votes

that sounds more like a problem with normals. wonky matchmaking, not something putting it back to solo will fix really.

anyway, it has already been pretty much proven to be the same anyway, draft and ranked have always shared environment, if you think there weren't lots and lots of problems with casual players in ranked during solo's run, you have a very short memory.

We need to give dyna time to develop. besides, we can't stop what has already started. if dyna is removed, there will be anti solo rants that may be as large as the anti dyna rants, and if it is swapped there will be a no change crowd that may develop, and people will lose more faith with riot.

SeekerofSilenceJun 6, 20161 votes

If they create a way to separate solos and premades in rank, I'd have no issue with DynQ.

I think it's complete bull that the two have a mixed rank, when they're so different skill-wise.

macromiteJun 6, 20161 votes

can't separate solo's out, they are needed to fill out the room. can't make filling rooms an optional thing, no solo player would actively put themselves at the perceived disadvantage. the thing that can be done is help solo players out, either by increasing lp gains or decreasing lp losses. maybe give them free dodges, something simple, a bandaid.

stone the blacksJun 5, 20161 votes

this topic affects me none fore i play not of the system of ranks on many occasions

....why the fuck did i right that in old English....

OHminusJun 5, 20163 votes

That's not old English. Old English does not have the english alphabet, but was rather written in runes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English What you're thinking about is rather Shakespearean English used in the Victorian Era.