Spell Vamp [Rework] [Brainstorming Ideas]

Stacona··2 votes·1,473 views

This is technically my third idea, for this idea I will introduce an even lower tier Spell Vamp item as well and create Spell Vamp to be more rewarding for the mana users, the non-mana users will still benefit from Spell Vamp just less sustain because they are resourceless (or high regen in terms of energy champions):

Vamp Sickle: Recipe: Amplifying Tome (435g) + 365g = 800g

Stats: +20 Ability Power +UNIQUE Passive - Spell Vamp: Heal for 2(+8%AP)(+12%Bonus AD)(+25% Mana consumed) health whenever a spell deals damage to an unit.


Hextech Revolver: Recipe: Vamp Sickle (800g) + 400g = 1200g

+40 Ability Power +UNIQUE Passive - Spell Vamp: Heal for 5(+12%AP)(+18%Bonus AD)(+30% Mana consumed) health whenever a spell deals damage to an unit.


Final Tier Spell Vamp Items: UNIQUE Passive - Spell Vamp: Heal for 10(+20%AP)(+30%Bonus AD)(+40% Mana consumed) health whenever a spell deals damage to an unit.


Runes and Mastery: Spell Vamp Quint: Heal for 5 health whenever a spell deals damage to an unit. (So Spell Vamp quints will be focused on early game sustain if you take them and fall off in the later game, while Spell Vamp items and the mastery point will be focused on late game sustain rather than early game sustain)

One Point Mastery in the Utility Tree: Heal for 5(+5%AP)(+8%Bonus AD)(+10% Mana consumed) whenever a spell deals damage to an unit. +3% Life Steal

Runes and Masteries is the only thing that stack with each other and with items, while item Spell Vamp will only use the greatest Spell Vamp plus if you have Spell Vamp runes and masteries

This idea does not have restrictions in terms of restrictions to 1/3 effect for AoE abilities and 1/3 healing against Minions and Monsters. This Spell Vamp is not true healing however, it is restricted by resistances of the source of damage the spell deals (aka the amount of damage that the spell deals is how much healing the Spell Vamp is restricted by i.e. a spell deals 100 magic damage and the target takes 20% less magic damage from magic resist and your magic penetration so the spell deals 80 magic damage which is 80% of the damage value so the Spell Vamp healing is reduced to 80% instead of the full 100%) unless the spell deals true damage.

This idea is to make Spell Vamp try to be more equivalent to the strength of Life Steal (while being balanced) and to have mana users be able to buy the stat and not just resourceless and energy champions, so the mana champions get a little bit more healing for having to expend mana, while the non-mana champions get less healing per spell because they don't spend anything for that healing except for a small cooldown. Another point is that this Spell Vamp is to encourage sustain healing with sustain damage spells (or low cooldown spells).

Spell Vamp right now very much encourages use of both non-mana champions and single target burst with the standard mage being mainly AoE and uses mana Spell Vamp becomes a very inefficient stat. Since marksmen and Life Steal create sustain damage and sustain healing then Spell Vamp (to be on equal footing with Life Steal) should be encouraged on sustain damage spells over burst damage spells to also create a sustain healing just like Life Steal creates a sustain healing.

SIDE NOTE: The same ability can only proc healing once every second; so low cooldown, damage over time, and damage per second spells is what this Spell Vamp system benefits the most from. The most Spell Vamp healing procs that can occur in one second is 5 as long as the passive, Q, W, E, R all have the ability to damage in a way that triggers Spell Vamp. (Spell Vamp rules have not changed.) Slight correction, you can go beyond 5 in the same second with damaging summoner spells and damaging active items.

~ Stacona

11 Comments

The5lacker1 votes

Your solution solves nothing and is needlessly, senselessly complex. The problem with Spellvamp is nothing about it mechanically. At all. In any way, shape, or form. The problem with Spellvamp is that Mages and Marksmen are fundamentally different champion archetypes that do fundamentally different things with their damage, which makes sustain based on their damage more valuable on one than the other.

Mages are typically burst champions. Which means they deal all of their damage up front and then have a period of down time. If they heal based on the damage they deal, all of their healing is going to be at the beginning of the fight. When mages are at full health and don't need healing. And if they save their damage for the end of the fight, they're probably typically going to die or be less effective, as their burst may end up wasted.

Marksmen, on the other hand, are almost universally DPS champions. They have a constant, semi-stable damage output, which means tying healing to that causes them to heal over the entire duration of the fight. Additionally, this DPS healing also acts as an effective counter to DPS itself, which means Marksmen vs. Marksmen duels are typically determined by lifesteal, whereas spellvamp isn't of any value if you're been bursted down and are currently dead.

Your solution does absolutely nothing to solve this "problem." You have a bunch of needlessly complex scalings that means everyone heals the same amount regardless of their actual damage output, which means Karthus becomes effectively immortal while sitting in a minion wave while any champion with an actually strong burst rotation gets to each shit if they want spellvamp. Which, I think I mentioned is already the case. But you've completely detached the healing from the damage, which means that the counter to lifesteal/spellvamp, building resistances, no longer exists. You've removed counterplay options and solved nothing. Outstanding.

Now, the one thing of value you have in this post is "Healing based on mana expended," which could make for an interesting support item for supports that need sustain but don't deal much damage. But everything else is just a nonsensical mess. There's nothing mechanically wrong with Spellvamp. It just doesn't need to exist. Staple lifesteal and spellvamp together, have it trigger on any damage the champion deals, viola. The entire debate is gone because people stop getting mindlessly hung up on this "Spellvamp mage" archetype which doesn't exist outside of one champion, Vlad.

Well, two, Fidd kinda fits as well.

Mallic1 votes

Akali has a bit of spellvamp built in! And Ryze's ult. One of the few cases where I actually notice spellvamp healing my bar up is when I turn on Ryze's ult and toss the bouncy E of doom.

And Morgana. But that's just rewarding her with a tiny bit of sustain from hitting things with her Q, popping her health up by like 60 or so each time.

The5lacker1 votes

Nasus's inherent spellvamp heals him by less than 10 per swing throughout the entirety of early and mid game.

Also, what part of "MAGES INHERENTLY FUNCTION DIFFERENTLY" don't you get? Other than the whole thing, of course.

Mallic1 votes

...Nasus has lifesteal, not spellvamp. His passive is literally "Nasus drains his foe's spiritual energy, giving him a natural 10 / 15 / 20% life steal."

And I was more commenting on your saying that 'spell vamp' only exists as a thing for Vlad and Fiddlesticks. Cuz Akali and Ryze are two more examples where spell vamp has a somewhat noticeable impact. I'm not arguing against the rest of that rant, cuz it's obvious that mages function differently. Duh.

The5lacker1 votes

The point wasn't he has spellvamp. The point was "rewarding" doesn't just mean "gets pretty numbers." Misspoke on the word but the intent was still obvious. Morg's passive and Nasus passive have literally the same amount of impact. Pushing the wave grants sustain. That's because other than the arbitrary limits on what they effect, Lifesteal and Spellvamp are the same stat, serve the same purpose, and have the same impact when purchased. It's just one is more suited towards its respective playstyle than the other.

neranin1 votes

How about an item that built from hextech revolver + tear of goddess

Stacona1 votes

That could be a possible idea, but how would you make the two pieces differ between archangel's and seraphs'? The slightly lower tier option is to have a spell vamp item at the same cost as vamp scepter

junglerboy161 votes

It shouldn't scale off AD at all, Any caster who builds AD benefits fully from life steal, and it doesn't make sense to have spell vamp scale off AD for any champ except Akali (and she definitely does NOT need more sustain). other than that, I like how it heals for a set amount and also based on mana cost, the only thing is a really low damage spell will still heal for a lot, and a high damage spell will not heal for much. Overall, aside from the AD scaling, it looks pretty good.

Stacona1 votes

Spell vamp is health on abilities- and only basic attackers use lifesteal fully - AD ratio is for potential itemization in the future to be created since spell vamp works on any source of spell damage

RedtheCrimson1 votes

I can appreciate the idea of making SV more applicable to mages who rely on mana, although I'm not sure your approach is quite right.

Mana mages can use SV just as easily as mana-less champions, it just depends on the champion. A champ with burst like: Ahri Brand Morgana Orianna Syndra Swain Viktor Veigar Velkoz Ziggs can all capitalize on the effects of SV, it'll just be different for each which is good, diversity is a good thing.

I don't think you need to implement change to the current SV to make it more accessible across the board to all mana based mages. SV just doesn't fit with certain champs, and should be used appropriately. That makes the game more challenging. Those AP champs with burst can heal themselves just as effectively, if not MORE than, as Life Stealing champs. LS champs just feel stronger as they have that DPS aspect to them, where as a ability champ is required to hit abilities, making it trickier.

Great concept though, appreciate your thought into the matter :)

Stacona1 votes

mana champions expend a stat to proc spell vamp so they should get more healing over non-mana champions- it is balanced over that area - and the fact that it would create everyone to be equal with spell vamp

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