im getting tired of people not learning about new champ winrates

Arammus·Mar 15, 2018·86 votes·4,152 views

"omfg champ xy is new and his winrate is below 45% RITO BUFF" and riot buffs them...

check a look at the winrate of ANY CHAMPION in his/her first 2 weeks. ITS ALMOST ALWAYS GARBAGE! BECAUSE THE CHAMP IS NEW!!!

pls riot dont make kaisa the same as ornn. buff buff buff buff. ppl get finally used and good with the champ champ winrate explodes. nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf.

seriously. just calm the fuck down. the majority of new champs has a shitty winrate for 2 weeks. sometimes even longer. IT NEEDS SOME TIME CALM THE FUCK DOWN!

small edit: im not saying kai needs a buff, or doesnt need one. tbh i cant judge that yet. all im saying is... having a negative winrate on a new champ... IS NORMAL! even camille had a negative winrate when she came out. and legit everyone on the pbe boards said she is godtier.

74 Comments

buPPDrmXEOMar 15, 201837 votes

Same thing happened with Swain

HibekiMar 15, 20184 votes

Except swain got repeatedly buffed and hes still kinda bad

DracosKasuMar 15, 20185 votes

He is fine, people just try to play him the same way then before. The new kit no longer play as a I ran into you and I am unkillable because reason.

YalathanilMar 15, 20183 votes

He much more of a burst mid lane mage than a top laner now. His sustain was gutted in favor of burst dmg.

PhieldworkerMar 15, 201817 votes

I don’t think you are playing him right then. He’s got a 52 % winrate.

Flawless FetusMar 16, 20182 votes

I had a 60+% wr with him before the buffs. Played only him into diamond. Lol. I'm just waiting for them to gut him now :(

I Main SwainMar 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Same thing happened with Swain

im lowkey both extremely happy and extremely scared by the consistent buffs to swain since the rework because in my experience he was fine from the start, im worried that in a month or so theyre gonna nerf him somewhere they shouldnt. imo his w radius increase may have been excessive, that thing is freaking massive now

CapnMorganFr3manMar 16, 20181 votes

The real issue is his kit is just ridiculously inconsistent and instead of making his e more reliable by giving it a recast like AurelionSol or Velkoz qs, they just decided 'hey let's put cheesy high damage in his q, that'll balance it out.'

PhieldworkerMar 15, 20185 votes

Yup. I was happy with the swain changes and I wasn’t able to win match ups I couldn’t asbestosis old Swain. But people complained and he got buffed and buffed.

People need to give at least a month or month and a half to look at a new or changed champs winrates.

Ashen RiderMar 15, 201817 votes

{quoted}

I couldn’t asbestosis old Swain.

Excuse me?

It Hertz When IPMar 15, 201823 votes

as·bes·to·sis ˌasbesˈtōsəs,ˌazˌbesˈtōsəs/ noun noun: asbestosis

a lung disease resulting from the inhalation of asbestos particles, marked by severe fibrosis and a high risk of mesothelioma (cancer of the pleura).

Gonna go out on a limb and say that Autocorrect attempted to be helpful.

PhieldworkerMar 15, 20181 votes

Haha thank you. I need to proof read better. I meant to say certain match ups that I couldn’t win before are winnable with the new one.

Dr PoroMar 15, 20183 votes

I thought you used it as a swear word instead of 'cancer'. At least it was original.

inplaneMar 16, 20184 votes

Riot and the community will never learn. It has always been like this. The most memorable instance for me is Taliyah 's 50% bonus minion damage on Q since the masses complained about her low winrate. I knew it was an awful mistake. It essentially forced nerfs onto the rest of her kit and now she's dull as rocks to play compared to her release. I guess that's what happens when game devs and a community never learns.

RexxieeMar 15, 20183 votes

Its not just being new, shes really bad though.

Shes a completely worse version of vayne/xayah with less range.

BârdMar 15, 20189 votes

That's what people said about Ornn.

Trust me, you don't want Kai'sa to get buffed. These boards have an anyeurysm whenever Vayne is good, and this is Vayne 2.0.

RexxieeMar 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's what people said about Ornn.

Trust me, you don't want Kai'sa to get buffed. These boards have an anyeurysm whenever Vayne is good, and this is Vayne 2.0.

Ive played over 30 games of kai sa and got mastery 7 on her already.

Why dont YOU try playing her in diamond elo +?

I also play vayne, and i can say shes literally a vayne 0.5, theres no reason to play her over vayne as vayne is stronger than her at all stages of the game and mind you vayne isnt even an A tier adc atm.

Her buffs are all 100% needed, and she'll still be weak probably, but more playable atleast.

BârdMar 15, 20188 votes

No reason to play her over Vayne?

Well, lets see...

Kai'sa is better at picks than Vayne. Kai'sa can scout, Vayne can't. Kai'sa can poke, Vayne can't. Kai'sa has more burst than Vayne. Kai'sa has meaningful nukes. Kai'sa's waveclear, while not great, is still better than Vayne. Kai'sa can be a major source of magic damage, Vayne can't.

She's not objectively better than Vayne, since Vayne can do some things better than Kai'sa, but she's not completely useless.

SmashinBobMar 16, 20182 votes

Vayne is completely superior than kaisa in her kit, she has cc and extreme outplay potential, her Q is far superior to Kaisa E. Where as Kaisa falls short in many aspects except some late game pick potential.

BârdMar 16, 20186 votes

If you judge by a champion by their ability to be Vayne, Vayne will always come out on top.

Kai'sa has a similar feel to Vayne, but different capabilities.

Electro522Mar 15, 20182 votes

I can understand overbuffing a champ when they're new...........but the 500 range on her auto's is so fricken brutal. If you don't have God tier positioning with her.......you're dead. Bumping it up to 525 will certainly give her more breathing room.

And in terms of damage......the only damage buffs she has gotten was in that hotfix they deployed for her. The current buffs for her in 8.6 never touch her damage.......unless you consider more attack speed more damage.

In my opinion, these current buffs is exactly what she needs, and she may very well be in a very healthy state afterwards.

AmazoXMar 15, 20184 votes

{quoted}

That's what people said about Ornn.

Trust me, you don't want Kai'sa to get buffed. These boards have an anyeurysm whenever Vayne is good, and this is Vayne 2.0.

Except Kai'Sai is Vayne with counter play.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 15, 20183 votes

Also, you can't look at winrate without banrate and playrate too. A high ban rate skews the data. If she is banned 90% of games, then those 10% of games... is that really a large enough sample size? Also, if she has a high playrate, that means people who aren't good at her are bringing her winrate down. If just people who are interested in playing her specifically are picking her, and not cuz she's the flavor of the month, then her winrate is more accurate. But if she's new that means her playrate will be high.

Gotta wait until ban rate goes down and play rate goes down too. That's when the numbers will even out and a decision should be made.

AmazoXMar 15, 20182 votes

Some champions needed buffs on release and some did not.

Kayn needed bug fixes and buffs because Shadow Assassin form was under performing compared to Rhaast.

Ivern needed a hot fix on release.

Kled needed buffs and adjustments on Skaarl's arrival time because there were many times Skaarl was just 0.1-0.5 away and the Kled player died because of that.

Kai'Sai is an oldschool style ADC that is Vayne with counter play.

cheerfothebeerMar 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

"omfg champ xy is new and his winrate is below 45% RITO BUFF" and riot buffs them...

check a look at the winrate of ANY CHAMPION in his/her first 2 weeks. ITS ALMOST ALWAYS GARBAGE! BECAUSE THE CHAMP IS NEW!!!

pls riot dont make kaisa the same as ornn. buff buff buff buff. ppl get finally used and good with the champ champ winrate explodes. nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf.

seriously. just calm the fuck down. the majority of new champs has a shitty winrate for 2 weeks. sometimes even longer. IT NEEDS SOME TIME CALM THE FUCK DOWN!

Her kit is kinda garbage for an adc. She gets out ranged by almost all adc and out mobility by the rest.

GripaAviaraMar 15, 20182 votes

I agree, Kai'sa now without the buffs is strong af. Not tristana strong, but close

Flawless FetusMar 16, 20183 votes

Explain how? Even I'm ridiculously fed on her, she feels lackluster to me. She has no range. No burst (unless you want to count her 5 aa passive. Wouldn't count 5 aas as burst). Very little mobility. No cc. Her skills are low damage. What makes you think she's strong? Every game I'm her, regardless of whether I'm way ahead, way behind, or somewhere in the middle, I feel like I disadvantaged my team by picking her.

GripaAviaraMar 16, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=ßlended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uAwNELyc,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-03-16T01:30:58.932+0000)

Explain how? Even I'm ridiculously fed on her, she feels lackluster to me. She has no range. No burst (unless you want to count her 5 aa passive. Wouldn't count 5 aas as burst). Very little mobility. No cc. Her skills are low damage. What makes you think she's strong? Every game I'm her, regardless of whether I'm way ahead, way behind, or somewhere in the middle, I feel like I disadvantaged my team by picking her.

Imho she is the strongest 1v1 ADC due to her Q. The key is to build damage and crit and don't relly that much on slow autos like BotrK. You Q and crit + static take half HP of squishies. With a W you need just 3 autos to kill and the invisibily from E, you gain 1 free auto. If you add a sup with CC in the equation you already have 3 stacks if you hit your W, making it easy.

Her early game is hard though, so you need to play safe

SteelflameMar 16, 20181 votes

My game plan on her for most games currently is Warrior Duskblade Shiv IE, and if using Tabis, PD for the E evo, if using Zerkers, I'll just hold an extra dagger until level 18 where Shiv-Zerker can just manage to set you up with your AS growth.

She definitely plays like an assassin-carry, where you are more looking for an opening to get onto a squishy and kill them in .5 seconds, and less like a traditional ADC. If you catch someone out with Duskblade and Shiv up, and get a crit, you can absolutely nuke them off the face of the earth if they are not a tank.

Flawless FetusMar 16, 20181 votes

I've tried crit builds. I've tried on hit and honestly thought that was the best bet - it seems like most of her damage comes from her passive. I haven't tried just stacking ad, though. If Q is where her damage comes from, maybe I should give lethality Kai a try. Lol.

Jerry SeinfeIdMar 16, 20182 votes

I have an 82% winrate ong her playing mid. But i'm silver...

gabetheguyMar 16, 20182 votes

NO!!!! MY FEELINGS TAKE PRIORITY OVER LOGIC!!!!

Meep ManMar 16, 20182 votes

Zoe had a 41% Win Rate on release for an example.

Small TiddiesMar 15, 20181 votes

Didn't they nerf her ranged spell and moved .20 ratio into her Q?

Thats not a buff or nerf, its just an adjustment because people were playing her as a nidalee.

SteelflameMar 16, 20182 votes

That is still on the PBE, and its def a buff. +.2 AP ratio on her Q actually means her Q gained .88 AP ratio on her single target Q post Evo. That is MASSIVE. Her ~4 second CD spell gained a .88 AP ratio, while her (early game anyway) 15-26 CD spell lost .2. Like sure, her W spam tactic lost some of it's cheese, but it is a big buff to AP Kai'sa's close range threat. I suspect that you'll see "AP" Kai'sa's in the mid lane with Duskblade-Gunblade-high AP for the Q evo into using that ratio buff. Pretty sure that is putting her max Q ap ratio at about... 220% ap? for a single target. For such a low CD spell, that is pretty scary.

AirKingNeoMar 16, 20181 votes

Kai'Sa is being buffed because Rageblade is being nerfed.

SteelflameMar 16, 20184 votes

Most Kai'sa's worth their salt skip Rageblade. It just isn't something you can really work on a 500 range carry. Varus gets away with Rageblade because he is 575 range.

Kai'sa also REALLY needs a major AD spike to get to her Q evo ASAP, because it is a very large chunk of power, and if you can get the 100 AD by level 9 you go from "decent" to "WTF is that damage" over the course of a few minutes because of how big the spike is in getting both max rank Q and Q evo in play at the same time.

AirKingNeoMar 16, 20181 votes

She'll be 525 next patch.

PickIe RickkkMar 16, 20181 votes

I love how all the retarded new players think "hr drrr a champ has never been broken on release" then in my memory I have Draven Darius Fizz Khazix Rengar Ekko Kled Kayn Yasuo Syndra Jayce Camille Fiora Lucian Lulu Zac Zed Quinn Jinx Thresh Braum

but yeah, sure. Ivern had a low winrate. Sol had a low winrate. Azir had a low winrate. Maybe it has to do with having shitty champion designs that make them low winrate?

SteelflameMar 16, 20186 votes

Dude. Release Syndra had a 25% win rate. Her "win" rate has NEVER been matched for the record of lowest winrate of all time. You literally had a better chance of winning with an AFK player than a Syndra on your team. She was THAT bad.

Yasuo was GARBAGE on release, but it was mostly due to his kit almost not working it was so buggy. I purposely called out that Riot should wait to see how much his bugfixes would impact his win rate before buffing him, because he was a bigger pile of bugs than Azir on release was. I actually thought he would be healthy without buffs, so long as his kit worked. They buff-fixed him, and left a monster that took several patches to quell.

Release Zed was ass. Mainly because he was made with the itemization update of S3 in mind, but was released before then.

Sexy Jack RabbitMar 16, 20181 votes

Lol I remember playing release Syndra on my old account when it wasn't banned.

You could use her W and it would just pick up, nothing. You'd lose the mana, pressing it again would just cancel the ability as if you never did anything and then it'd go on CD.

LinoWidgeMar 16, 20181 votes

I could be mis-remembering this but didn't on release Bard beat out Syndra's win rate?

SteelflameMar 17, 20181 votes

No, he was pretty rough, but not that bad. He was low 30s IIRC.

LinoWidgeMar 17, 20181 votes

LoL all I remember is how everyone thought riot was losing their touch that year, since both Bard & Tahm Kench were so bad on release...

Pika FoxMar 17, 20181 votes

Release Xin was literally 1v5ing teams, and release Leblanc i believe was the first ever hotfix in LoL history. You dont know busted on release unless youve seen them.

PickIe RickkkMar 17, 20181 votes

yup. Leblanc was the good ol days Q R dead or W R W dead

Chigara AshadaMar 16, 20181 votes

It just kind of baffles me because Riot could be off doing better things like fixing up mechanics or nerfing champions who are well established, but instead they are choosing to listen to immediate complaints, and not ones that have been apparent for over a season now.

Pika FoxMar 17, 20182 votes

If they havnt done anything to something thats existed for over a season, it hasnt been a problem. Plain and simple.

Z3SleeperMar 16, 20181 votes

She needed the initial buffs, now she's fine. That range was a bit ridiculously short.

I can see her being nerfed in the future once people actually find out the optimal build for her. I'm still seeing all kinds of wacky builds all over the place even on probuilds. Seems like noone has figured it out yet.

The TrentMar 16, 20181 votes

You realize Riot doesn't listen to people who just say, "BUFF BUFF BUFF," right? In Beyond the Rift (I think that's what it's called), Imaqtpie's talk show thing, they brought on a Riot guy that develops champions. Her predicted win rate was at least 47%, that's why they hot fixed in some buffs. Riot has a ton of data. They're not going to listen to the community 99% of the time when it comes to who should get buffs and who should get nerfs, they're going to look at their own data.