actual employee admits they make the hitboxes for skillshots "shorter" to fuck with you

Arammus·12/20/2019, 9:29:58 AM·162 votes·31,671 views

https://puu.sh/ERsts/7ac0074c4d.png in this screenshot he literally says that THE ENEMY sees jhin ults range as smaller than it actually is he even says "to make them think they are safe when walking out of it but it extends a tiny bit more" Edit: as several people pointed out by now, the 2nd screenshot cointains a typo. apparently for jhin the range looks a bit shorter than it really is. thought i meantion this in the post by now.

what else is there to say? this employee admits they do this intentionally. because iuf the indicator was 100% accurate, it would lead to players thinking "it should have hit". how fucked up is this game???

155 Comments

ModWuks12/21/2019, 3:49:34 AM54 votes

{quoted}

No, that's not what it means, hence why I said the post was ignorant or malicious. The hitbox and the range indicator are not the same thing. If the projectile hits your hitbox, the skillshot connects. What they've changed in the case of Jhin is they've made the range indicator slightly shorter for Jhin and slightly longer for the enemy. The effect of this is that it minimizes the negative feeling of being Jhin and missing someone whose hitbox is ambiguously close to the full range and the negative feeling of being an enemy hit by Jhin when you thought you were out of the projectile range but were actually 1 pixel within it. The purpose is to improve the players' experiences on both sides, not to "fuck with you."

Facts

VonToothskie12/20/2019, 9:41:37 AM48 votes

Yeah this is asinine. there is no reason to mislead people deliberately to conform to an expectation, particularly when it negatively affects their experience

DerMangoJoghurt12/20/2019, 10:21:24 AM40 votes

They are saying that skillshot indicators are different, not the actual skillshot VFX. If you're using quickcast for all abilities there's no difference at all, except those range indicators for high range abilities like Xerath or Jhin ult. Speaking about those, the Rioter you're quoting made a mistake. They meant to say that the range shown for Jhin is a little bit smaller, than for the enemy team. When somebody is just on the line of his ult (from his perspective), he can still hit them and feel good about barely hitting a shot at maximum distance. On the receiving end, the area is slightly larger. If you walk across the outer line people often think they're safe, even though their entire hitbox might not be over the indicated line yet. By making the area slightly larger visually, those moments where you think you're safe but actually aren't are reduced significantly. This discrepancy leads to less frustration for both sides involved.

And also, this has been known for quite some time. It's not something new Riot just admitted to yesterday.

Salty Mc Feed12/20/2019, 10:53:46 AM30 votes

Weird logic, because I expect to be safe when I am actually out, and not when I am "almost out". I also expect indicators to be accurate and nothing else. This shitty design philosophy needs to stop. Players want a game that works consistently and is fair. Just tell the truth (in this case an accurate indicator), it's always better.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Next up: why is healing overpowered and why is GW overpowered?... because Riot wants everyone to "feel impactful". Never mind the fact that this makes heals only obnoxious early and weak in late game. You can't let everyone "win" simultaneously. Just make it balanced!

https://fearlessdesign.tumblr.com/post/162098921538/why-is-grievous-wounds-needed-as-a-mechanic-in

Why is grievous wounds needed as a mechanic in league?

It’s one of the most obvious forms of what we call a “release valve.” These are systems elements (often item passives or actives) that a player won’t normally value, but can opt into when they face a particularly daunting challenge. Grievous Wounds isn’t usually needed, but when you’re playing against a comp with Mundo/Soraka, it’s one of the most valuable things you can get in the item shop.

Release valves serve a few purposes. They allow for intellectual mastery, whereby a player can see a state in the game, and make a powerful reaction that has a clear impact. They also create room for us to push strengths. Healing champions would need to be much more limited in a world without GW, for example. Most champions on their own don’t push the need for a release valve, but when comps can stack similarly sharp characters, release valves allow opponents a way to deal with dramatically skewed power.

You see, they think they can give everyone some kind of special treatment and let them "feel powerful" and make a balanced game at the same time, obviously doesn't work. As a result either get heals that nobody can deal with or healers feeling useless and almost never does it give you a fair experience... game just feels shitty and unbalanaced overall with awkward power curves..

Most likely same logic for tanks.... sometimes too tanky especially when you rush tank items against 1 opponent and then useless because they don't scale well enough and get countered by items.

Done2512/20/2019, 9:33:48 AM26 votes

This is nothing new? See red post from over a year ago. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n4V0dLys-artrequires-hitboxes-to-be-fixed?comment=000c

The caster expects things to hit, the target wants it to miss. So Riot designs the visuals to match these mindsets by having them show smaller for the caster (So they don't expect things on the very edge to land) and larger for the target (So they know just how close they are to getting nailed.)

People already get plenty mad about things that "shouldn't have hit". You want them to shrink display zones and make things even worse?

EDIT: Downvoted for truth, kek.

Subdue12/20/2019, 5:26:04 PM16 votes

Is the original post intentionally malicious or just ignorant? The source doesn't mention anything about hitboxes; it's talking about the range indicators.

Myrmiron12/20/2019, 5:51:46 PM10 votes

Oh look boards is trying hard to summon a controversy while the actual reason for the subject is perfectly reasonable. #YAWN You all got nothing better to do? Skillshot indicators being slightly smaller is a design choice in order to make the game feel more consistent, not some random trololo garbage to fuck with the players.

Infernape12/20/2019, 9:39:08 AM9 votes

I mean isn't his already common knowledge? It's the same way that certain abilities are longer than what the projectile indicates (like Blitz's Q).

It's still bullshit though.

Modl Ryden l12/20/2019, 8:53:39 PM9 votes

Okay and?

This post is written as if the employee was guilty for behavioral misconduct ( using words like, "employee intentionally clearly admitted X Y Z to fuck with you." ) when really the Rioter was being transparent and explaining the reasons behind their design choices. It's hard to get this kind of insight into how League was developed and you want to wring it out like it was some kind of crime? Literally fuck off.

Their intentions weren't to "fuck with you." No where in their comments say what they did was so they can, "fuck with you."

Thanks for dragging down, what could have potentially been a really good discussion about Riot's design choices.

No one bothered to ask how, when, why, what reasons. Instead a lot of the users here would clearly rather just point fingers and blame someone for losing a match to a 'weird' Thresh hook from 5 seasons ago.

Somniphagore12/20/2019, 10:09:00 AM9 votes

I'm quite conflicted by these statements. The first post I agree with and makes sense, it acts slightly as a buffer to give a player a hit when they thought it might be a miss and this is specifically with the caster's indicator only. The second post actually seems like he's saying the exact opposite, where the actual range is slightly between the two shown, and that the caster's indicator is actually longer than the missile length???

Also, I disagree with the statement "Enemies who see ground indicators expect to be safe when they're 'almost outside'". If I see a ground indicator I only expect to not be hit if I'm fully outside that indicator. If he had said partly outside I could understand, but almost outside is a ridiculous thing to expect.

Blue Shift12/20/2019, 6:28:15 PM8 votes

The post is very misleading.

While I do not agree with the reasoning behind why they made the decision to make skillshots tether to enemies, I think it was just explained a little poorly.

The reason they did this was to give a little bit of leeway to the players using them, as they are the only ones able to see those range indicators. The enemy can not see them, so to them, the hitbox is just the normal size.

The same applies to many other games like Overwatch and it's notorious Hanzo arrow hitboxes.

Paladins straight up just made hitboxes massive on every character to make it easier.

League of legends isn't the only one to do this sort of thing, I just agree with the majority on this one, where it would be nice to see the actual range indicators and let us master them.

WAZZZUP50012/20/2019, 2:42:49 PM7 votes

It's obviously a typo, otherwise the rest of what he said contradicts the "larger and smaller" bit. It's actually pretty smart game design; when things meet your expectation, it seems fair to you. If you get hit by something you aren't thinking you even could get hit by, you'd feel pretty bad right?

KaisadiIIa12/22/2019, 1:45:56 AM5 votes

wtf is this bullshit thread. Employee does not "admit to fuck with you". Employe simply explains you why things are the way they are, and explains it in such a way that the dumbest of the guys out there could easily understand it. For Jhin it is useless to know which enemies are "just outside his ult range" so his ult indicator tells him which enemies he can still hit. For enemies it is useful to know at which range they are not safe anymore, so Jhin's indicator is shown bigger to them so they do not step into his ult. It is a help for both Jhin and his enemies. You aren't Iron IV because AD Yuumi conspires to make you lose the game.

Toxic Teeto12/20/2019, 6:54:05 PM5 votes

"JuSt LeArN tO dOdGe!" KEKW

Eclipse133712/21/2019, 1:40:36 AM5 votes

The rioter actually got the jhin ult range mechanic backwards. The only player who sees it slightly smaller is the jhin player themselves, and the justification is that it makes players feel like they're 'cheating' the range a little bit. It has no gameplay implications because jhin players who shoot at max range usually have their cursor outside the ult regardless. I remember a rioter noting this, I don't remember the exact source...

If I am correct, it's interesting how this rioter fully commits to an explanation that doesn't really add up.

If I'm wrong, the mechanic is uhhhhhhhhhh kinda silly.

Subdue12/21/2019, 7:19:33 PM5 votes

Okay, the concept seems to be way over some people's heads, so I've drawn it out for you.

https://i.imgur.com/3AkXQjZ.png

Trias00012/20/2019, 3:00:54 PM4 votes

https://i.memeful.com/media/post/3dBvY3d_700wa_0.gif

Akali is SO HOT12/20/2019, 8:28:21 PM4 votes

That's an error in the second post. Jhin gets the slightly smaller indicator so it feels more satisfying when the players get the hits that are right on the edge. Enemies will always know when they're safe. He even explains why they do it in his post I'm not sure what you guys want. If they made the indicators 100% accurate, then that would lead to problems so they aren't.

G0blinSlay3r12/20/2019, 4:28:25 PM4 votes

Saw it years ago, said it years ago.

FSRER12/20/2019, 1:03:04 PM3 votes

Now, add here the "devs don't have to play their game in order to develop it" quote here and you see what Riot really is