actual employee admits they make the hitboxes for skillshots "shorter" to fuck with you

Arammus·Dec 20, 2019·162 votes·31,671 views

https://puu.sh/ERsts/7ac0074c4d.png in this screenshot he literally says that THE ENEMY sees jhin ults range as smaller than it actually is he even says "to make them think they are safe when walking out of it but it extends a tiny bit more" Edit: as several people pointed out by now, the 2nd screenshot cointains a typo. apparently for jhin the range looks a bit shorter than it really is. thought i meantion this in the post by now.

what else is there to say? this employee admits they do this intentionally. because iuf the indicator was 100% accurate, it would lead to players thinking "it should have hit". how fucked up is this game???

155 Comments

ModWuksDec 21, 201954 votes

{quoted}

No, that's not what it means, hence why I said the post was ignorant or malicious. The hitbox and the range indicator are not the same thing. If the projectile hits your hitbox, the skillshot connects. What they've changed in the case of Jhin is they've made the range indicator slightly shorter for Jhin and slightly longer for the enemy. The effect of this is that it minimizes the negative feeling of being Jhin and missing someone whose hitbox is ambiguously close to the full range and the negative feeling of being an enemy hit by Jhin when you thought you were out of the projectile range but were actually 1 pixel within it. The purpose is to improve the players' experiences on both sides, not to "fuck with you."

Facts

MaskedMadnessDec 21, 20197 votes

I simply can not agree. for instance, who knows how many kills i could have gotten if i didnt decide to not throw a skillshot because actually was in range. further more its annoying to litteraly see the graphic in game not actually touch you what so ever and you still got hit.

OkrakiDec 21, 201918 votes

The range is not wrong, the tip is still the tip, there just a bit more to the length, further more you don't see the graphic of anyone else indicators just your own, so you never know that regardless. Nothing you said really is a point, say the indicators are 100% people will still say i should have hit that, or i should not have been hit. Everyone is dog-piling on a Rioter who decided to make a comment, this is why they don't come on here much anymore, anything they say will be down voted, and used in another inflammatory post, which this post is, its not even about gameplay, it not even constructive, its just some guy posting another thing saying "look guys Riot dose not give a shit, lets hate on them". The original post has is critically put together more or less, it was about "i think this should be done, to improve the game" which is 100% what the boards are about, people sharing there ideas about anything they want, in a constructive manner, this though.. This is just some guy who is salty he did not get his way, and resorted to "shaming" Riot by standing for its reason as to why its this way, and why it wont change. To be fully honest i got no damn idea how stuff like this remains on the boards despite it clearly not suiting the rules of the boards, and other posts are deleted that are much smaller, and has very little to no upvotes, that there is a question to ask the board admins.

ŚhunpoDec 21, 201911 votes

Ok, so...

Why did you pin this? It seems awfully bias to do so (as well as the actual comment not being constructive, pin the actual comment not the "Facts" comment)
How is this in any world still justifiable? A skillshot should look the same and feel the same for both players, there shouldn't be any, what I like to call, "pity changes" made in order to make the user of said skillshots happy/surprised. Sorry, not buying it. A skillshot should again, look and feel the same for both players.

AeroWaffleDec 21, 201916 votes

{quoted}

Ok, so...

Why did you pin this? It seems awfully bias to do so (as well as the actual comment not being constructive, pin the actual comment not the "Facts" comment)

The OP's claim that this decision with the skill shot indicators was, "to fuck with you" is bias. What Subdue stated is true. Riot has these slightly different skill shot indicators not to piss anyone off, but to minimize negative feelings when the player's perception was off by an extremely small amount.

Feel free to argue that it's not worth it, but Riot doesn't have this difference just for the sake of pissing off the player. Quite the opposite.

How is this in any world still justifiable? A skillshot should look the same and feel the same for both players, there shouldn't be any, what I like to call, "pity changes" made in order to make the user of said skillshots happy/surprised. Sorry, not buying it. A skillshot should again, look and feel the same for both players.

Games are filled with these. Did you know 20% crit doesn't actually mean 20% crit every shot? The first shot has a much lower chance of a crit then it steadily builds up until you crit.

Programming around player emotions is part of a game developers job as well.

Heck, if you've played XCOM (the remake, not the really old one) they lie about the percentages. They intentionally made your chance to hit often higher than what was listed because people would get unreasonably upset with the game when they miss shots that had 85% or so.

If it makes you feel better, consider this skillshot indicator range difference another aspect of the skill ceiling. If you're skilled enough you should know that your skillshot will still hit when it's slightly past the indicator range.

This thread just serves as another testament to why the developers rightfully dislike posting on the boards. Not only did the OP falsely paraphrase the intention of the design decision, they also used an incorrect term that wasn't even part of the design choice (OP claimed it was the hitboxes that were affected instead of the indicator). All to generate hate.

Chainman3Dec 21, 20198 votes

I cant find the post that said this but god damn thank you to that person for telling the OP how to read what was actually said.

How does this even get 73 upvotes?

Yin Yang TaoistDec 22, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Facts

Right. But what the Riot post said was not the same thing as what this board member is saying. The Riot post said, "Jhin R displays two different indicator cones while firing. The enemy sees a smaller cone so when they are "on the edge" they're safe. Jhin sees a larger cone so when the enemies are "on the edge" he can still hit them. And they later went on to say, "The purpose of the Indicator UI isn't to be EXACTLY 100% ACCURATE, it is to assist players in the execution of their spells."

So what the board member said was the opposite of what the Riot post said. Unless the Riot post meant it the other way round. Jhin's R indicator being shorter for him than the actual hit box while being longer for the enemy.

{quoted}

No, that's not what it means, hence why I said the post was ignorant or malicious.

Also, I don't think that the OP is being malicious or ignorant here. He quoted exactly what the Riot post said. But I think that the Riot person probably said it the other way round and it led to a misunderstanding?! Maybe they were just tired when they posted.

SubdueDec 22, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yin Yang Taoist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEwWdEsY,comment-id=00240004,timestamp=2019-12-22T00:25:30.107+0000)

Right. But what the Riot post said was not the same thing as what this board member is saying. The Riot post said, "Jhin R displays two different indicator cones while firing. The enemy sees a smaller cone so when they are "on the edge" they're safe. Jhin sees a larger cone so when the enemies are "on the edge" he can still hit them. And they later went on to say, "The purpose of the Indicator UI isn't to be EXACTLY 100% ACCURATE, it is to assist players in the execution of their spells."

So what the board member said was the opposite of what the Riot post said. Unless the Riot post meant it the other way round. Jhin's R indicator being shorter for him than the actual hit box while being longer for the enemy.

Also, I don't think that the OP is being malicious or ignorant here. He quoted exactly what the Riot post said. But I think that the Riot person probably said it the other way round and it led to a misunderstanding?! Maybe they were just tired when they posted.

Oh, he quoted it right? Please show me where in the Rioter's post the Rioter said "We made these adjustments to fuck with you."

Yin Yang TaoistDec 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Oh, he quoted it right? Please show me where in the Rioter's post the Rioter said "We made these adjustments to fuck with you."

He concluded it based on what the Rioter posted. If what the Rioter posted was literally what he meant and was actually done, then he'd be right. Think about it. If the Jhin indicator was longer than the actual hitbox. Meaning that he's thinking he's gonna kill them while they are shown IN his hitbox. But nothing happens to them on the edge. Similarly, the enemy walking out sees the hitbox smaller than it actually is. Meaning, he thinks he's safe but he's still getting hit. That'd definitely be messing around with them.

And this is why I don't understand why you think that they are being malicious or ignorant when they posted exactly what the Rioter said. Its not even like he's putting words in their mouth or escalating some rumor he heard from his brother-in-law's sister's cousin's friend etc. Someone actually messing with you doesn't have to put a message over his head that says, "I am messing with you" to make you certain that they are. Now, please note that I'm not saying that the Rioter is messing around with us. I'm saying that he probably misworded his post and the OP took it for what it was.

SubdueDec 22, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yin Yang Taoist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEwWdEsY,comment-id=0024000400000000,timestamp=2019-12-22T02:11:18.531+0000)

He concluded it based on what the Rioter posted. If what the Rioter posted was literally what he meant and was actually done, then he'd be right. Think about it. If the Jhin indicator was longer than the actual hitbox. Meaning that he's thinking he's gonna kill them while they are shown IN his hitbox. But nothing happens to them on the edge. Similarly, the enemy walking out sees the hitbox smaller than it actually is. Meaning, he thinks he's safe but he's still getting hit. That'd definitely be messing around with them.

And this is why I don't understand why you think that they are being malicious or ignorant when they posted exactly what the Rioter said. Its not even like he's putting words in their mouth or escalating some rumor he heard from his brother-in-law's sister's cousin's friend etc. Someone actually messing with you doesn't have to put a message over his head that says, "I am messing with you" to make you certain that they are. Now, please note that I'm not saying that the Rioter is messing around with us. I'm saying that he probably misworded his post and the OP took it for what it was.

The Rioter's post was about range indicators and clearly explained how the inaccurate range indicators are used to improve the players' experience. The original post says the hit boxes are shorter, which is not the case at all. The Rioter never mentions hit boxes.

The Rioter may have misstated which range indicator was shorter and which was longer, but anyone who reads the whole post should get the gist of it, which is not at all what was paraphrased by the OP.

Yin Yang TaoistDec 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

The Rioter's post was about range indicators and clearly explained how the inaccurate range indicators are used to improve the players' experience. The original post says the hit boxes are shorter, which is not the case at all. The Rioter never mentions hit boxes.

The Rioter may have misstated which range indicator was shorter and which was longer, but anyone who reads the whole post should get the gist of it, which is not at all what was paraphrased by the OP.

Right. So that's the point. He made a mistake with which range indicator was short and which one was longer.

He paraphrased it exactly as what I thought he said at first. I had to actually read the pinned post to realize that he made a mistake with the indicators. Over 80+ people upvoted this because they thought the same. They are not being malicious or ignorant. They simply believed what the expert is saying. The Riot designer knows what he's talking about and this is how he's made it! Are you going to believe him or go. "Hey, you sure you know what you're talking about?"

Now, I think that you're wiser than most of us (or atleast me) since you were able to figure out what he meant and that he made a mistake with the indicators. But saying that we're all being malicious or ignorant just because we took the Rioter's word for facts is going a bit overboard.

SubdueDec 22, 20198 votes

[{quoted}](name=Yin Yang Taoist,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEwWdEsY,comment-id=002400040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-22T06:32:31.202+0000)

Right. So that's the point. He made a mistake with which range indicator was short and which one was longer.

He paraphrased it exactly as what I thought he said at first. I had to actually read the pinned post to realize that he made a mistake with the indicators. Over 80+ people upvoted this because they thought the same. They are not being malicious or ignorant. They simply believed what the expert is saying. The Riot designer knows what he's talking about and this is how he's made it! Are you going to believe him or go. "Hey, you sure you know what you're talking about?"

Now, I think that you're wiser than most of us (or atleast me) since you were able to figure out what he meant and that he made a mistake with the indicators. But saying that we're all being malicious or ignorant just because we took the Rioter's word for facts is going a bit overboard.

The Rioter did NOT say anything about the HIT BOXES. At all. Full stop. The premise of this thread is that the Rioter said HIT BOXES were not accurate. The Rioter actually said that RANGE INDICATORS were intentionally inaccurate.

Furthermore, the Rioter explained WHY the range indicators were inaccurate, and how that benefited players. However, that messaging does not make it into the original post, which paraphrases it as "to fuck with us."

RiotAD YuumiDec 22, 201935 votes

Facts.

Also my original post had an error. Jhin sees a SMALLER indicator. Enemies see a BIGGER indicator. I had them reversed :3

This difference results in enemies who THINK they are safe actually being safe and Jhin players who THINK they should hit still hitting. Everyone wins!

Seriously dude, we make this game because we care about y’all’s experience and want it to be the best it can be.

VonToothskieDec 20, 201948 votes

Yeah this is asinine. there is no reason to mislead people deliberately to conform to an expectation, particularly when it negatively affects their experience

ArammusDec 20, 201922 votes

why fix the actual bugs when you can just say "its to not confuse people" while everyone knows this confuses them even more

DerMangoJoghurtDec 20, 201940 votes

They are saying that skillshot indicators are different, not the actual skillshot VFX. If you're using quickcast for all abilities there's no difference at all, except those range indicators for high range abilities like Xerath or Jhin ult. Speaking about those, the Rioter you're quoting made a mistake. They meant to say that the range shown for Jhin is a little bit smaller, than for the enemy team. When somebody is just on the line of his ult (from his perspective), he can still hit them and feel good about barely hitting a shot at maximum distance. On the receiving end, the area is slightly larger. If you walk across the outer line people often think they're safe, even though their entire hitbox might not be over the indicated line yet. By making the area slightly larger visually, those moments where you think you're safe but actually aren't are reduced significantly. This discrepancy leads to less frustration for both sides involved.

And also, this has been known for quite some time. It's not something new Riot just admitted to yesterday.

The23rdGamerDec 20, 201921 votes

{quoted}

They are saying that skillshot indicators are different, not the actual skillshot VFX. If you're using quickcast for all abilities there's no difference at all, except those range indicators for high range abilities like Xerath or Jhin ult. Speaking about those, the Rioter you're quoting made a mistake. He/She meant to say that the range shown for Jhin is a little bit smaller, than for the enemy team. When somebody is just on the line of his ult (from his perspective), he can still hit them and feel good about barely hitting a shot at maximum distance. On the receiving end, the area is slightly larger. If you walk over the outer line people often think they're safe, even though their entire hitbox might not be over the indicated line yet. By making the area slightly larger visually, those moments where you think you're safe but actually aren't are reduced significantly. This discrepancy leads to less frustration for both sides involved.

And also, this has been known for quite some time. It's not something new Riot just admitted to yesterday.

One of the few intelligent responses here who understands game design. Good on you lad.

TerozuDec 20, 20195 votes

The worst part on this is it came out a while back.

And it got like a hundred upvoted because everyone understood it was good game design...

Salty Mc FeedDec 20, 201930 votes

Weird logic, because I expect to be safe when I am actually out, and not when I am "almost out". I also expect indicators to be accurate and nothing else. This shitty design philosophy needs to stop. Players want a game that works consistently and is fair. Just tell the truth (in this case an accurate indicator), it's always better.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Next up: why is healing overpowered and why is GW overpowered?... because Riot wants everyone to "feel impactful". Never mind the fact that this makes heals only obnoxious early and weak in late game. You can't let everyone "win" simultaneously. Just make it balanced!

https://fearlessdesign.tumblr.com/post/162098921538/why-is-grievous-wounds-needed-as-a-mechanic-in

Why is grievous wounds needed as a mechanic in league?

It’s one of the most obvious forms of what we call a “release valve.” These are systems elements (often item passives or actives) that a player won’t normally value, but can opt into when they face a particularly daunting challenge. Grievous Wounds isn’t usually needed, but when you’re playing against a comp with Mundo/Soraka, it’s one of the most valuable things you can get in the item shop.

Release valves serve a few purposes. They allow for intellectual mastery, whereby a player can see a state in the game, and make a powerful reaction that has a clear impact. They also create room for us to push strengths. Healing champions would need to be much more limited in a world without GW, for example. Most champions on their own don’t push the need for a release valve, but when comps can stack similarly sharp characters, release valves allow opponents a way to deal with dramatically skewed power.

You see, they think they can give everyone some kind of special treatment and let them "feel powerful" and make a balanced game at the same time, obviously doesn't work. As a result either get heals that nobody can deal with or healers feeling useless and almost never does it give you a fair experience... game just feels shitty and unbalanaced overall with awkward power curves..

Most likely same logic for tanks.... sometimes too tanky especially when you rush tank items against 1 opponent and then useless because they don't scale well enough and get countered by items.

Done25Dec 20, 201926 votes

This is nothing new? See red post from over a year ago. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n4V0dLys-artrequires-hitboxes-to-be-fixed?comment=000c

The caster expects things to hit, the target wants it to miss. So Riot designs the visuals to match these mindsets by having them show smaller for the caster (So they don't expect things on the very edge to land) and larger for the target (So they know just how close they are to getting nailed.)

People already get plenty mad about things that "shouldn't have hit". You want them to shrink display zones and make things even worse?

EDIT: Downvoted for truth, kek.

CrazyMonkeyCZDec 20, 201943 votes

{quoted}

This is nothing new? The caster expects things to hit, the target wants it to miss. So Riot designs the visuals to match these mindsets.

Or, you know, they could just show how it really is, but guess it's much better when you need to play countless games just to know that Luxs/Morgs/Nauts/whoevers skillshots is just tine bit longer/wider than the actually visuals...

How can you even advocate for such a bullshit wtf man...

LordRedStone Nr1Dec 20, 201912 votes

The post from Jinxylord says nothing about hitboxes though? He's only talking about the ground indicators.

TerozuDec 20, 20194 votes

It's also a typo.

The opposite is true, Jhins team gets the smaller indicator while enemies get an accurate one. Hitting an enemy at the edge feels more satisfying and Enemies know when they're safe.

SubdueDec 20, 201916 votes

Is the original post intentionally malicious or just ignorant? The source doesn't mention anything about hitboxes; it's talking about the range indicators.

Darkdemon653Dec 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Is the original post intentionally malicious or just ignorant? The source doesn't mention anything about hitboxes; it's talking about the range indicators.

It's just a typo in the title.

SubdueDec 20, 20199 votes

{quoted}

It's just a typo in the title.

If it is a "Typo" then it is a "Typo" that completely changes the entire premise of the post itself. Changing the hitbox is NOT at all the same as changing the range indicator.

Darkdemon653Dec 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If it is a "Typo" then it is a "Typo" that completely changes the entire premise of the post itself. Changing the hitbox is NOT at all the same as changing the range indicator.

Yeah, typos can do that.

SubdueDec 20, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, typos can do that.

Was it also a typo to suggest the purpose of the design is "to fuck with you?"

MyrmironDec 20, 201910 votes

Oh look boards is trying hard to summon a controversy while the actual reason for the subject is perfectly reasonable. #YAWN You all got nothing better to do? Skillshot indicators being slightly smaller is a design choice in order to make the game feel more consistent, not some random trololo garbage to fuck with the players.

InfernapeDec 20, 20199 votes

I mean isn't his already common knowledge? It's the same way that certain abilities are longer than what the projectile indicates (like Blitz's Q).

It's still bullshit though.

CrazyMonkeyCZDec 20, 20196 votes

{quoted}

I mean isn't his already common knowledge? It's the same way that certain abilities are longer than what the projectile indicates (like Blitz's Q).

They never specifically admitted it, but I guess we all knew it down there.

haaaaaaalpDec 20, 20193 votes

I thought they talked about it a lot back in season 1 when people were asking about stuff like attack vs cast range, end to end vs middle to middle hitbox, and lolipopping.

SomniphagoreDec 20, 20199 votes

I'm quite conflicted by these statements. The first post I agree with and makes sense, it acts slightly as a buffer to give a player a hit when they thought it might be a miss and this is specifically with the caster's indicator only. The second post actually seems like he's saying the exact opposite, where the actual range is slightly between the two shown, and that the caster's indicator is actually longer than the missile length???

Also, I disagree with the statement "Enemies who see ground indicators expect to be safe when they're 'almost outside'". If I see a ground indicator I only expect to not be hit if I'm fully outside that indicator. If he had said partly outside I could understand, but almost outside is a ridiculous thing to expect.

PhreaktasticDec 21, 20194 votes

The statement is from someone with a technical mind. There is no "partially", nor is there "almost" in programming. Either the character capsule is in, or it's out. Period. No question, no exceptions. Visually, a character can have its feet outside of the line, yet their collision capsule can still be in range (and thus can be hit by Jhin's ult projectile). THAT is what he's referring to. "Almost outside" would mean they player THINKS they are outside, yet the collision capsule is still inside.

If the range indicator is slightly smaller for Jhin and his allies, and slightly larger for the enemy team (which is the case -- the screenshotted posts are typos, you can test it with friends in a custom game to validate), it inherently means that if their FEET are outside of the indicator, the character capsule will not be hit. Whereas if the indicator was exactly the same for everyone, moving to what appears to be outside of the indicator line may not actually be outside of it. Collision capsules are very often wider than the span of feet, and a good deal (2-3 times) larger in regards to forward/backward from the feet. When you account for armor and other visuals (think Garen) the capsule can be a great deal larger than where the feet are.

OP does not understand the first thing about game mechanics. This is 100% industry standard, exists in every game, and is nothing new. It's a GOOD thing to do. It provides a small but crucial visual buffer to allow someone to visually KNOW where they need to stand to not get hit.

Modl Ryden lDec 20, 20199 votes

Okay and?

This post is written as if the employee was guilty for behavioral misconduct ( using words like, "employee intentionally clearly admitted X Y Z to fuck with you." ) when really the Rioter was being transparent and explaining the reasons behind their design choices. It's hard to get this kind of insight into how League was developed and you want to wring it out like it was some kind of crime? Literally fuck off.

Their intentions weren't to "fuck with you." No where in their comments say what they did was so they can, "fuck with you."

Thanks for dragging down, what could have potentially been a really good discussion about Riot's design choices.

No one bothered to ask how, when, why, what reasons. Instead a lot of the users here would clearly rather just point fingers and blame someone for losing a match to a 'weird' Thresh hook from 5 seasons ago.

Abibyama IIDec 20, 201910 votes

It's sad really, everytime a rioter tries to actually to interact with the boards users, boards users just had to fuck it up

Blue ShiftDec 20, 20198 votes

The post is very misleading.

While I do not agree with the reasoning behind why they made the decision to make skillshots tether to enemies, I think it was just explained a little poorly.

The reason they did this was to give a little bit of leeway to the players using them, as they are the only ones able to see those range indicators. The enemy can not see them, so to them, the hitbox is just the normal size.

The same applies to many other games like Overwatch and it's notorious Hanzo arrow hitboxes.

Paladins straight up just made hitboxes massive on every character to make it easier.

League of legends isn't the only one to do this sort of thing, I just agree with the majority on this one, where it would be nice to see the actual range indicators and let us master them.

WAZZZUP500Dec 20, 20197 votes

It's obviously a typo, otherwise the rest of what he said contradicts the "larger and smaller" bit. It's actually pretty smart game design; when things meet your expectation, it seems fair to you. If you get hit by something you aren't thinking you even could get hit by, you'd feel pretty bad right?

Toxic TeetoDec 20, 20195 votes

"JuSt LeArN tO dOdGe!" KEKW

Eclipse1337Dec 21, 20195 votes

The rioter actually got the jhin ult range mechanic backwards. The only player who sees it slightly smaller is the jhin player themselves, and the justification is that it makes players feel like they're 'cheating' the range a little bit. It has no gameplay implications because jhin players who shoot at max range usually have their cursor outside the ult regardless. I remember a rioter noting this, I don't remember the exact source...

If I am correct, it's interesting how this rioter fully commits to an explanation that doesn't really add up.

If I'm wrong, the mechanic is uhhhhhhhhhh kinda silly.

SubdueDec 21, 20195 votes

Okay, the concept seems to be way over some people's heads, so I've drawn it out for you.

https://i.imgur.com/3AkXQjZ.png

KaisadiIIaDec 22, 20195 votes

wtf is this bullshit thread. Employee does not "admit to fuck with you". Employe simply explains you why things are the way they are, and explains it in such a way that the dumbest of the guys out there could easily understand it. For Jhin it is useless to know which enemies are "just outside his ult range" so his ult indicator tells him which enemies he can still hit. For enemies it is useful to know at which range they are not safe anymore, so Jhin's indicator is shown bigger to them so they do not step into his ult. It is a help for both Jhin and his enemies. You aren't Iron IV because AD Yuumi conspires to make you lose the game.

Trias000Dec 20, 20194 votes

https://i.memeful.com/media/post/3dBvY3d_700wa_0.gif

G0blinSlay3rDec 20, 20194 votes

Saw it years ago, said it years ago.

Akali is SO HOTDec 20, 20194 votes

That's an error in the second post. Jhin gets the slightly smaller indicator so it feels more satisfying when the players get the hits that are right on the edge. Enemies will always know when they're safe. He even explains why they do it in his post I'm not sure what you guys want. If they made the indicators 100% accurate, then that would lead to problems so they aren't.

FSRERDec 20, 20193 votes

Now, add here the "devs don't have to play their game in order to develop it" quote here and you see what Riot really is

LordRedStone Nr1Dec 20, 201913 votes

Bad example since that Dev is literally streaming how he plays the game and answers design questions.

Also that's not just against you, but it's funny how no one in this thread knows who it is because he changed his username a while ago [sg-miss-fortune]

Jungle SenseiDec 20, 20193 votes

He also has done some custom games with viewers when he wants to try something on pbe.

It’s always great to watch his stream though, he has a great way of explaining some of his decisions and his thoughts on balancing.

KazekibaDec 20, 20194 votes

^ This

I learned a lot about things from asking him questions on Twitch - Like why Riot loves "-3 ad" nerfs so much and other design/balance choices you couldn't possibly know without someone on the design or balance teams telling you themselves.

What I would give for a full interview with Jatt.

(for reference; 3 ad might not mean much by itself, and it doesn't. It's not supposed to. What its meant for is to create times when you miss a CS because that minion had 105 HP, took 30 damage, and you only have 74 ad. So you miss the minion (and it immediately dies to an in-flight minion attack landing after your auto) and miss out on 21g. That 21g means it takes 10 seconds longer for you to back to get a long sword; 25 or so to get an Amp tome, if the rest of your farming is unaffected. That lost time means having lower stats than you would normally - 13 AD on a marksman, or 3AD and 12% aspeed - which means you might miss 2 or 3 more minions because of it, slowing down the rate at which you gain gold. it's more of a mid-game nerf than an early one, in terms of champ v champ combat (very early, you havent lost significant gold and 3 ad will almost never influence the result of trades in lane. Very late, and you bought items already and even if your 'late game' is 20 seconds later than it was before, it's still only 3AD weaker.)