Can we rework the coin line?

Paroe··1 votes·238 views

item 3301 +5% cooldown reduction +Gold 2 per 10 seconds UNIQUE – FAVOR: Enemy minions damaged by you and killed by an ally sometimes drop coins that give either 6 Gold and restore 3% missing mana (minimum 10).

item 3096 +50% base health regeneration +10% cooldown reduction +Gold 2 per 10 seconds Passive UNIQUE – FAVOR: Enemy minions damaged by you and killed by an ally sometimes drop coins that give either 10 Gold and restore 5% missing mana and HP (minimum 10).

This way coin line has interactivity of some kind and becomes a niche option again.

7 Comments

Zerdun2 votes

your changes are an abomination and ill explain why

  1. you nuke the passive gold gen - no reason explained, its placed there on ALL the support items for a reason. To guarantee a specific amount of gold being generated no matter what. Having a baseline for a gold gen item is important for circumstances like when a lane goes wrong. It also helps when a support does this thing called roaming. Supports don't get to CS often, and by leaving lane they already put themselves behind on EXP, which if done right is not the end all be all but still you effectively make it harder to non diamond + supports to do their job and still get the items they need to be successful.

  2. your 'improved' passive requires the support to attack minions, I feel I should not have to explain why that is TERRIBLE but i will - making a support push a lane causes adc to miss farm, you literally are making it harder to CS, enforce a freeze on a lane, as well as deliberately increasing the amount of rage on the bot lane.

  3. you've reduced the amount of gold the base coin grants from 25 to 6 while also halving the amount of mana regen granted. While these coins now literally spawn every time your guy whacks a minion. this is horrible on both paper and in action. tethering the gold generation of an item like this to your ADC is a bad - BAD idea for those sub gold (which is around half the player base) because it now relies on them effectively CSing. by doing this you make it so if on bad player lands in the ADC slot you literally gimp two players.

now if you were to propose some moderate change like dropping the base gold regen on t1 coin to 20 instead of 25 t2 to 35 and t3 leaving at 40 i would be much more interested in your proposal. or possibly simply nerfing the gold on T2 only if the T1 nerf winds up harming the supports ability to successfully buy sightstone at a reasonable time which in turn harms the whole starting phase

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

your changes are an abomination and ill explain why

  1. you nuke the passive gold gen - no reason explained, its placed there on ALL the support items for a reason. To guarantee a specific amount of gold being generated no matter what. Having a baseline for a gold gen item is important for circumstances like when a lane goes wrong. It also helps when a support does this thing called roaming. Supports don't get to CS often, and by leaving lane they already put themselves behind on EXP, which if done right is not the end all be all but still you effectively make it harder to non diamond + supports to do their job and still get the items they need to be successful.

  2. your 'improved' passive requires the support to attack minions, I feel I should not have to explain why that is TERRIBLE but i will - making a support push a lane causes adc to miss farm, you literally are making it harder to CS, enforce a freeze on a lane, as well as deliberately increasing the amount of rage on the bot lane.

  3. you've reduced the amount of gold the base coin grants from 25 to 6 while also halving the amount of mana regen granted. While these coins now literally spawn every time your guy whacks a minion. this is horrible on both paper and in action. tethering the gold generation of an item like this to your ADC is a bad - BAD idea for those sub gold (which is around half the player base) because it now relies on them effectively CSing. by doing this you make it so if on bad player lands in the ADC slot you literally gimp two players.

now if you were to propose some moderate change like dropping the base gold regen on t1 coin to 20 instead of 25 t2 to 35 and t3 leaving at 40 i would be much more interested in your proposal. or possibly simply nerfing the gold on T2 only if the T1 nerf winds up harming the supports ability to successfully buy sightstone at a reasonable time which in turn harms the whole starting phase

Its actually a call back to the original version of coin where you got gold. HP, and mana for just being around a minion who died.

Originally, ancient coin and its line didnt HAVE passive gold gen because of favor. It got added when this coin rework happened because the current mechanic is RNG. The suggested rework is NOT RNG and promotes prepping waves - something a support capable of it should be doing anyway. A single auto attack from a ranged support per minion isnt "pushing the wave" either.

In exchange for a reliable gold income and sustain it forces you interact (like STE line... but a lot better). you give up your 2g/10 BECAUSE its reliable and has no cooldown - its a niche item for champions like soraka and sona who dont really do damage to minions.

Also, the current iteration of coin feels aweful. The RNG coin mechanic is BAD - like really, really bad. At least with the suggested rework you know how much youd be getting so you can plan properly.

Zerdun2 votes

None of the original versions of the support items had passive gold generation. It was added after they discovered that RNG CAN happen and this is a very simple solution in order to smooth out the gold generation curve. Basically you can reduce the amount of gold generated from the actual passives because you are getting passive gold. Its not a hard sell and its also really really easy to understand.

Your proposal promotes the auto attacking of minions and then having your ADC last hit them. It does not matter what you call it, honestly, you can call it whatever you want. That in and of itself is the reason your not selling your idea and why I said it is bad. Why should MY gold generation be based on how well my duo can CS?

( I had information here that i thought was right but was incorrect)

Now if you want to be really technical about it the original coin granted HP and gold on minion death and had nothing to do with anything but them dying. It was OP on champion like Soraka and it let you do really stupid things in lane and not be punished for it. Not to mention how a support's auto attacking of the wave can and almost certainly will throw my adc's timing off while he is trying to secure CS if I don't IMMEDIATELY attack all the minions and this little bit of damage will STILL wind up shoving the wave if the enemy support runs a different gold generator.

For example Janna at lvl 1 has something like 45 AD, if she decides to auto each minion, while the enemy support (say a poke based champ with Spell thief's) does not then she will do a little less than 300 damage to that wave at level 1. Roughly 300 damage across all minions WILL push a lane eventually (ever wonder how those super waves of minions are created). That is my point and that is why your idea is not viable.

It honestly feels like your just upset that a heal bot can actually babysit their teammate. If your having difficulties vs Soraka just poke her first and whenever she walks into the minions to guess what? collect COINS. Its not brain surgery. For your other champion who 'does nothing but heal' Sona actually would prefer to use the spell thief's edge because last I checked she loved to run in (sometimes with e) then q auto with her passive then pop her heal to heal up some of the damage she's OBVIOUSLY going to eat. She has only calmed down because with the way ADC and support mastery/itemization is. It makes her poke pattern ineffective (adcs have much more sustain thanks to warlords and supports generally being more defensively oriented in response to how powerful ardent censor is). IF ardent censor wasn't such a HUGE power swing currently for as cheap as it is and adcs didn't regenerate as quickly Sona will probably still use that aggressive play pattern where applicable.

FWIW : The current RNG on the coin is probably less RNG than your trying to sell it as honestly, if I were to hazard a guess on how it works under the hood so to speak, I would guess its similar to an adjusted weight type RNG (where basically you set the drop % of each coin then as one drops more than than the other based on the set % the chances of you getting the other one increases). This in combination of the passive gold generation does exactly what I said previously, smooths out the gold generation to minimize gold gen fluctuation as well as allowing the supports to actually go make plays.

Old coin encouraged the support to never leave the lane... ever because they lose a lot of gold that way. New coin eases that immediate demand to sit in lane all day under tower by having there be coin pickups in lane after a few minion deaths that are not obnoxious while also not harming the supports desire to do things like go ward somewhere.

Paroe1 votes

One downvote... No comments. So people arent in favor of reworking coin line?

Arakadia1 votes

You gave it 2 hours. Sometimes you dont get immediate feedback. Sometimes you dont get any. Thats the boards.

chipndip11 votes

Kinda lends itself to auto pushing the wave...and you'd get 60 gold a wave.

However, if you tone it down and give it a proper cd...this isn't that bad sounding...

UnboundHades1 votes

coin just needs a completely new way to get gold since riot has it in a state where its either garbage or stupid strong

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