Irelia has the same problems Akali was nerfed for
When she gets a lead, you can't be anywhere in her dash range or you get locked down and die. At least with Akali you can move.
119 Comments
A Miss Fortune42 votesIrelia is broken and I don't think she can actually be balanced with her current kit. She will be overpowered or underpowered and right now I feel safe to say that she is quite overpowered, taking in consideration all of the nerfs she's been given and still remains one of the most dominate top laners. Sure she has counters, but a good Irelia will simply turn that around.
Before I get downvoted to Oblivion because I know there are a lot of Irelia players/mains, but "broken" doesn't mean she's overpowered or underpowered it just kind of means the champion isn't working as intended to, or "broken". She can't really be fixed without a rework or huge changes to her kit. Nerf her abilities, they will be useless, buff her abilities, they will be crazy strong and return her to one shotting people like she use to.
TheI3igDaddy6 votesUnfortunately you're right. Her fanbase will defend her until their dying breaths, along with Riven and Lee players.
A Miss Fortune5 votesThere's a few other brokens champions too, and oddly a lot of them have really high fanbases. Irelia as I just said, Tryndamere, Shaco, Vladimir, Poppy, Fizz.
TheI3igDaddy4 votesFizz, yes. Poppy, yes, but she's been in Riot's crosshairs for a while and they're going to probably give her a full relaunch, Sion style. Same with Yorick.
Vladimir and Tryn I'm on the fence with. I've seen them fail in high elo, but they're both pubstompers against those who can't handle them. The lack of resource (moreso concerning Tryn then Vlad) makes a big issue once they get ahead.
I don't really think Shaco is broken. Yeah, he's not the most fun to play against, but he's not freelo. His Q is strong, no doubt, but I'd rather face him over Evelynn, miss 'fuck-your-green-wards'. He depends heavily on the element of surprise; no shit, he's an assassin. Therefore, as long as your team can ward properly, once he's spotted, BAM that sense of dread goes away.
A Miss Fortune11 votesBroken Does Not Mean Overpowered
Vladimir is broken simply because, well, he's Vladimir. After he gets any amount of Spellvamp he basically has an infinite Kayle ult during the laning phase, since it's really difficult to poke him or outtrade him. If he doesn't get fed early, he'll still be annoying and be almost untouchable.
Tryndamere, I just got done posting a huge like 50 paragraph explanation to why he's broken. And he's probably one of the most broken.
Shaco is broken due to the fact his early game damage is trash, really It's not that scary and his ganking ability is really reliant on your laner a lot of the times. If he doesn't do well early game and gets behind, he's useless throughout the game unless there is a miracle and will basically just be there to infinitely split push. This is the same way with Tryndamere, if they don't get kills early game they won't be a threat and just split push the rest of the game since they both have weak teamfighting but both can take down objectives fairly fast and can escape very easily. Except in Tryndamere's case where even if he's not fed, he can pretty much duel anyone who is fed. Not everyone, but most champions.
Shaco really needs a rework, he's a champion with a good and unique design but turned out 100% different that what I hope Riot expected him to be. If he doesn't get ahead or if he simply falls behind early game, he's useless since other assassins can outscale him. Don't get me wrong when I say that though, I'm more than sure a lot of people have made comebacks with Shaco, but almost always if you fall behind you're worthless aside from split pushing. One thing is that Shaco's so reliant on how well he does early game, but at the same time he does 0 damage early game on top of being squishy, and his only disengage is his only engage aside from maybe-sort-of his E. I can't tell you how many times a Shaco's tried to gank me and ended up just killing himself due to how squishy he is, how low his early game damage is, and how he has nothing but slows.
Chessburger1 votesThat behind part on Shaco is not really true. It's just how most shaco players play it. They play feast or famine. Some of us don't and are useful throughout the game even if not snowballed.
I may be biased but I think he's one of the most balanced assassins in the game.
Oh and that last part is true but that's why he's 100% preparation. You have to play with your wits on and assess every situation. Which also makes him the most unique and fun character in the game. Plus that is exactly why he's the best designed assassin, he can't just go in kill and pop out. He commits hard, doesn't usually have the damage to blow someone up in 1 second and has a really tough escape if he commited with Q so it's again on the battlefield preparation and timing. Also he can be 1 shot after he shows up, providing he doesn't outplay an important spell of yours by using the ult in exactly the right timing for that 0.5s or so invulnerability.
And he relies 100% on the element of surprise which can be severely hindered by pink upgrade totem and sweeping lens. A lot of people don't utilise it enough when playing vs stealth champs. I mean you can't really do shit vs eve who speeds in so fast you're already ulted before you can see her, but shaco is 100% reliant on getting into melee range with that 450 range blink and stealth (let's be realistic the blink range is so short that he needs the stealth to realistically get to a target that's not an idiot.)
Rew7111 votesI love how Kassadin isn't on the overpowered broken list. But that still means he could use a better kit. I honestly would rather him be more assassin/tank. Take off the mobility thing on his passive and allow buffs to his other abilities.
P - Gives 5% bonus armor and magic resist. Q - Deals 70/90/110/130/150 (+70% AP). Shield should be changed to 40/70/100/130/160 (+10% HP) for 2 seconds. W - damage lowered to 40/60/80/100/120 (+50% AP) and refills 4/5/6/7/8% of total mana. (20/25/30/35/40% towards champions). E - Deals the same amount. Same wait. Same damage. Added; deals 10/15/20/25/30% damage worth of enemies AP. R - Stays as is.
Now, Kassadin has more sustain. His R will be his mobility.
For his Q, he will now have a better shield. So, if Kassadin gets 1000 or 2000 health, he will have a 260 or 360 shield for 2 seconds. W now deals less, but rewards more (as it should). Passive stays the same. E now deals more against mages. Passive may not have crowd control anymore, which isn't bad for Kassadin anyway, he now can withstand more impacts than other assassins could. This passive only effects bonus armor and magic resist so that means if you buy any, you will gain 5% bonus.
Crett1 votesI love how Kassadin isn't on the overpowered broken list. But that still means he could use a better kit. I honestly would rather him be more assassin/tank. Take off the mobility thing on his passive and allow buffs to his other abilities.
P - Gives 5% bonus armor and magic resist. Q - Deals 70/90/110/130/150 (+70% AP). Shield should be changed to 40/70/100/130/160 (+10% HP) for 2 seconds. W - damage lowered to 40/60/80/100/120 (+50% AP) and refills 4/5/6/7/8% of total mana. (20/25/30/35/40% towards champions). E - Deals the same amount. Same wait. Same damage. Added; deals 10/15/20/25/30% damage worth of enemies AP. R - Stays as is.
Now, Kassadin has more sustain. His R will be his mobility.
For his Q, he will now have a better shield. So, if Kassadin gets 1000 or 2000 health, he will have a 260 or 360 shield for 2 seconds. W now deals less, but rewards more (as it should). Passive stays the same. E now deals more against mages. Passive may not have crowd control anymore, which isn't bad for Kassadin anyway, he now can withstand more impacts than other assassins could. This passive only effects bonus armor and magic resist so that means if you buy any, you will gain 5% bonus.
5% bonus armor and mr? that's weaker than the mastery. give him 20% at least
Rew7111 votesHis old passive allowed 15% magic resist. Allowing 20% bonus to all extra magic resist and armor seems a bit much, doesn't it? Just giving him more sustain on his Q and W and more power on his E also seem big. The added 5% extra + the mastery will give in total 13% bonus. Not to mention the other mastery that now allows all bonus to give bonus 4% to either side.
DEN TEL0S1 votesIs fizz still broken? I used to make other Fizz player rage quit, but after all the nerfs and changes he just feels really meh. I have a lot of trouble doing good with ap fizz now.
TheI3igDaddy1 votesIn my opinion, which I believe to share with a lot of others, is that Fizz's E will always make him broken. Invulnerability, combined with a big chunk of mobility will always be a pain in the ass to deal with.
Also the way his W works, gives him the versatility to build bruiser, so now he can be somewhat tanky, still retain the invuln, and now shreds you to death via auto attacks.
While normally I like versatility, Fizz's kit is just a little too good.
DEN TEL0S1 votesA while back me and my friend were talking about how to make his E less annoying, and we came up with to things. Take the damage off of it and move it to the rest of his kit, maybe making his cooldowns a bit longer. The second idea was allowing him to charge his E for more range, the idea is he can use it quickly to dodge something, but he has to charge it to get any distance. This way he can dodge jump and damage in one go.
Lunar3dge1 votesRiven isn't broken.
Fadedpf17 votesBut Irelia can shred squishies and tanks. You also can't CC her. At least if you CC Akali and buy a pink you can attempt to kill her.
Aeolian Melodies1 votesBut Irelia can shred squishies and tanks. You also can't CC her. At least if you CC Akali and buy a pink you can attempt to kill her.
displacement cc > tenacity
Remlap12237 votesdisplacement cc > tenacity
With that logic Katarina, Master Yi, and Tryndamere are all healthy and not toxic because they can be hard countered by counterpicks.
Meep Man3 votesBut Irelia can shred squishies and tanks. You also can't CC her. At least if you CC Akali and buy a pink you can attempt to kill her.
Irelia's dash also resets if she gets a kill, so if there is minions nearby, her dash range can be up to tripled the normal range if done right.
1999 01 173 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u6sm6z3w,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-07-04T22:54:24.099+0000)
Irelia's dash also resets if she gets a kill, so if there is minions nearby, her dash range can be up to tripled the normal range if done right.
only if she gets a kill with bladesurge. it's a lot harder to reset than akali which will always reset on any kill or assist
MercuryCannons17 votesBut irelia circle jerk
ponkzy12 votesirelia butt circle jerk
Jasiwel13 votesI think Irelia has almost reached a Lee Sin level of balance issues in the public eye. If Riot nerfs her, it's almost overkill - if they don't then she remains a ridiculous entity that is not fun to play against unless you stomp her.
That said, I don't like champions in this predicament because they feel horribly unfair to use or play against. Heck, I'd argue that if Irelia reaches lategame then even being slaughtered in lane means nothing. She can build just TriForce for damage, the rest full tank, and she will still outdamage most fighters that way. I think most of us recognize that as a design flaw.
To balance Irelia would mean to basically remove excess power...but in doing so would destroy her because that's effectively her entire premise.
DrNova7 votesIrelia gets one dash, and then she can slow you or maybe stun you if circumstances are right. Blow your flash or escape skill and you are often good to go.
Akali has three dashes and no amount of escapes are going to outrun that if you need to
Heckin Support2 votesIrelia gets one dash, and then she can slow you or maybe stun you if circumstances are right. Blow your flash or escape skill and you are often good to go.
Akali has three dashes and no amount of escapes are going to outrun that if you need to
Akali is a pick off champion. She isnt the biggest fan of teamfights (especially if people are smart and actually upgrade
) She likes to pick off stragglers.
Irelia is great at both since she is tanky enough for teamfights but damagey enough to get to the backline and kill. Her stun is 100% long enough for her to kill an adc without the adc every trying to fight back. Not saying either is op or not just wanted to get my 2cents into you're 2cents.
Tiax5 votesIrelia gets one dash, and then she can slow you or maybe stun you if circumstances are right. Blow your flash or escape skill and you are often good to go.
Akali has three dashes and no amount of escapes are going to outrun that if you need to
Wrong, she basically has double death range because she can q to a hurt minion than you. And circumstances are right as in you are both full health? (her e stuns if both are 100%)
FalconPawwwwnch7 votesRiot won't nerf Irelia because they know Irelia is the only thing keeping ranged champions from dominating top lane currently
Bruisers in general are complete garbage right now besides her and they can't lane vs anything
umbraˉ6 votesIrelia can burst squishies while being unkillable
Balanced
Ravenstiker5 votesIrelia pretty much has no counters. Like pretty much the only thing i can think about is Jax E ( Just Dash Out or Walk out), Zhonyas (Wait/Walk away) and Vlad Pool ( Walk away and go back in). You get Hp stacking, Damage kills you, buy 500 armor, true damage. Plus the Tenacity and Sustain is too Strong, You go 
and you already do tons of damage, get like 
and you are like god, then you get like a 
for morgana bind and then its like gg 
Irelia Bot4 votesIn season 2 Morello said rework but in reality it doesn't seem like that seems to be any kind of real issue since here we are 3 years later and still no rework.
But I have to ask what part of the the term ASSASSIN do people not understand? the goal of an assassin is to take out a high priority target first in hopes of getting a better situation for your team. And it isn't like Irelia is nuking you in under a second. You do have time to react and if the stun is "too OP" then get a QSS or BV and remove the stun.
Not building to contend with an enemy threat means you must accept the results of your choice. It is kinda like building a House in a place that floods every few years. But if you do that you should be the one paying out of pocket for your action.
Ravenstiker5 votesYou know, I have a feeling that you only say this because you don't want irelia to be nerfed because of your name
Irelia Bot3 votesYou know, I have a feeling that you only say this because you don't want irelia to be nerfed because of your name
You probably complained about Akali, Zed and LeBlanc in the same fashion and will complain about what ever assassin comes up next in being able to blow up marksmen and squishy supports.
Next will be likely Diana. This is because she has similar play styles to Irelia and akali meaning that she can blow up some targets really quickly with a lich bane.
Or it might be Nidalee again. While I hate nid the only problem I really have is her heal being so strong.
But in the end it is a case of not figuring out how to deal with something and instead just complaining about it for no clearly defined reason other then "it killed me"
As for counters have you ever tried learning path, darius or using teleport effectively on anyone? Getting the jungler to gank top a couple times?
But the TP meta is actually something that is helping Irelia since it allows for getting kills in bot lane.
Yasuo or GTFO2 votesGetting the jungler to gank top a couple of times? That same strat can be applied for any champion top, don't try and use it to defend Irelia.
Irelia Bot3 votes[{quoted}](name=Yasuo or GTFO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u6sm6z3w,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T17:11:55.335+0000)
Getting the jungler to gank top a couple of times? That same strat can be applied for any champion top, don't try and use it to defend Irelia.
If you pick Yasuo into Irelia you are going to have a bad time.
IS that better?
But if you really want to make an Irelia have a hard time learn Panth or Darius. Those 2 will make it challenging to say the least.
Spicy Rice1 votes[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u6sm6z3w,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T17:46:06.119+0000)
If you pick Yasuo into Irelia you are going to have a bad time.
IS that better?
But if you really want to make an Irelia have a hard time learn Panth or Darius. Those 2 will make it challenging to say the least.
Counter picks are nice, but having actual weakness as a champion feels much better
Yasuo or GTFO6 votesShe's tanky, meaning she can get to the back line alive, she has godlike tenacity, again, meaning she can get to the back line more easily than she should, and don't forget that she has more than enough damage to end a squishy.
I Miss Cannon1 votesBuy Mercury Treads + Tenacious Mastery and you have as much Tenacity as Irelia in most situations. And no, Mercs on Irelia + her passive AREN'T additive. I also don't see how Irelia is a problem but other TF bruisers like Hecarim aren't. Irelia at least isn't a massive lane bully, an anti-carry, a great teamfighter with an AoE ult that's also a total cheap escape etc. etc. etc. Melee bruisers are a problem in general for whiny Jinx mains.
NemeBro1 votesBuy Mercury Treads + Tenacious Mastery and you have as much Tenacity as Irelia in most situations. And no, Mercs on Irelia + her passive AREN'T additive. I also don't see how Irelia is a problem but other TF bruisers like Hecarim aren't. Irelia at least isn't a massive lane bully, an anti-carry, a great teamfighter with an AoE ult that's also a total cheap escape etc. etc. etc. Melee bruisers are a problem in general for whiny Jinx mains.
Mercury's Treads actually do in fact stack multiplicatively with Irelia's passive.
Irelia Bot1 votesMercury's Treads actually do in fact stack multiplicatively with Irelia's passive.
He jsut said they are not additive.
And yes an Irelia can get a 64.9% tenacity from mercs+passive+mastery which allows for her to not have to be insta-nuking a target in under a second to kill them and does allow for reacting to her. And a reminder that unless a minion is conveniently right next to the enemy carry Irelia has to use her Q or flash to get close unless doing a surprise flank which is the result of the other team not warding.
Also a reminder that if Irelia's stun was nerfed to say 1 second at all ranks it would likely be made so that it always stuns or has much higher damage as compensation. Do you want it to always stun or do like 300 damage? It honestly would take less effort in deciding if I should use it or not were it always a 1 second stun.
NemeBro1 votes[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u6sm6z3w,comment-id=00070001000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T19:58:23.653+0000)
He jsut said they are not additive.
And yes an Irelai can get a 64.9% tenacity from mercs+passive+mastery which allows for her to not have to be insta nuking a target in under a second to kill them and does allow for reacting to her. And a reminder that unless a minion is conveniently right next to the enemy carry Irelia has to use her Q or flash to get close unless doing a surprise flank which is the result of the other team not warding.
Also a reminder that if Irelia's stun was nerfed to say 1 second at all ranks it would likely be made so that it always stuns or has much higher damage as compensation. Do you want it to always stun or do like 350 damage? It honestly would take less effort in deciding if I should use it or not were it always a 1 second stun.
Go on.
Irelia Bot1 votesGo on.
With what? compensation that might occur if her stun were changed?
NemeBro1 votes[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u6sm6z3w,comment-id=0007000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-04T20:04:01.724+0000)
With what? compensation that might occur if her stun were changed?
No, I was just wondering why you were seemingly trying to sell me on the idea that Irelia is not overpowered when I never said she was.
I've never lost lane to Irelia. I've fought her with Darius, Renekton, and Tryndamere, and beaten her every time.
This doesn't change the fact that she's one of the higher tier top laners, but I don't know if that's the game as it is now favoring her or not.
Yasuo or GTFO4 votesHer stun duration could be reduced by a fair amount, for starters.
manbearswine1 votesNot really.
First of all,akalis old dash range was 800,that was an incredibly inappropriate range for a pointclick dash(irelia's is 650),A lot of skillshots(which aren't guaranteed to hit) have that range which just created stupid scenarios,to make things worse she had 3 dashes,meaning she could stick to you very easily even if you used escapes or flash,and of course she had(and still has) resets on her dash.
Irelia can be peeled off(it's hard with her tenacity,but this game has some strong slows),akali just kept spamming her dash till you died,akali is far worse designed than irelia.
Baunjo1 votesNot really.
First of all,akalis old dash range was 800,that was an incredibly inappropriate range for a pointclick dash(irelia's is 650),A lot of skillshots(which aren't guaranteed to hit) have that range which just created stupid scenarios,to make things worse she had 3 dashes,meaning she could stick to you very easily even if you used escapes or flash,and of course she had(and still has) resets on her dash.
Irelia can be peeled off(it's hard with her tenacity,but this game has some strong slows),akali just kept spamming her dash till you died,akali is far worse designed than irelia.
have you even bothered looking at the actual damage of akalis ultimate? Its low as shit. Her main damage is from procing q and sheen and from there is just e and more sheen procs. Her ult is more utility if anything
NemeBro1 voteshave you even bothered looking at the actual damage of akalis ultimate? Its low as shit. Her main damage is from procing q and sheen and from there is just e and more sheen procs. Her ult is more utility if anything
Akali can use her ult three times. It has 750 base damage and AP scaling of 150% if used all three times.
That's some pretty good damage right there, I tell you hwat.
1999 01 171 votesAkali can use her ult three times. It has 750 base damage and AP scaling of 150% if used all three times.
That's some pretty good damage right there, I tell you hwat.
it also resets on kill/assist. bladesurge only resets when you kill something with bladesurge, so hardly ever in a team fight.
Baunjo1 votesAkali can use her ult three times. It has 750 base damage and AP scaling of 150% if used all three times.
That's some pretty good damage right there, I tell you hwat.
No she has a base damage of 250 with a scaling of 50% and can cast her ability 3 times if she has full stacks, but no GOOD akali ever uses 3 stacks to kill 1 person. That's just retarded. And stop trying to add up numbers to make her damage seem menacing when you aren't even thinking of mechanics realistically.
SmokinSickStyle1 votesYou forgot that Akali + Pink ward = much easier to kill if focused.
Irelia builds and maybe one other dmg item then goes full tank and becomes an abolute nightmare for squishies because of her true damage and how hard is to peel an Assassin Tank off someone.
It's quite hard to shutdown her because of how tanky she can build without sacrificing damage, another frustating thing is when she reaches 30%+CDR, her stun duration is 2s and a base cooldown of 8 pre-cdr, literally being at higher % HP then her means that she's the one getting an advantage, and you can count on one hand the champs that do so.
Imho she needed a rework before she got released, or, you can nerf her down for REAL, i don't get why people jsut say better nerf Irelia when she actually needs it and all the nerfs weren't as harsh as many other champs 
...
Ecchi Gorira1 votesMeanwhile Olaf and poppy can wreck your backline with 0 counterplay. "But they have a weak early game". Yeah well so does irelia. Don't whine about irelia if your support cant protect you from a cc prone champion.
All Day Tay Tay1 votesirelia isnt broken, shes just in a wierd state. she has so many numbers to manage on her kit passive: tenacity% q: damage, ad ratio w: healing amount, true damage, duration e: damage, stun/slow duration, ap ratio r: damage, ap ration, ad ratio, healing amount (champs), healing ratio (minions) thats 14 numbers not counting mana cost or cooldowns, which would add another 8. theres a video by stonewall that explains this a lot better than i ever could. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbTPemmD33k go to about 5:10
Baunjo1 votesIts a team game. you and the champion you hate are not the only players on the battlefield, so dont play like it and you wont have such problems
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