I can handle all his jumping around and flying electric boomerangs, but when an assassin has the power to hard cc me for 2+ seconds... well that's just not right.
IF the stun duration is lowered, yes, Ekko may be pigeonholed into always being played as an assassin, but honestly, he wasn't intended to tank. Look at his ratios and scalings. It's just this one weird W skill that clashes with him being an assassin 100% of the time.
Lord Dusteon47 votesBecause it takes 3 seconds to set up, reveals where it will be before landing, requires Ekko to enter the exact area for it to stun, and is extremely telegraphed?
Omiwom28 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PwKsT8pz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-21T00:31:41.744+0000)
Because it takes 3 seconds to set up, reveals where it will be before landing, requires Ekko to enter the exact area for it to stun, and is extremely telegraphed?
I don't care if he has a stun, but it's one of the longest in the game. The duration should be lowered. It's not like if he misses the stun he's done for. He still gets a huge shield and zones you away.
masterdragon48114 votesI would say the shield is that part that needs to get nerfed. Not the stun. The stun is a punishment for staying in a location that you knew about a LONG time ago for too long; and it also rewards Ekko for diving into the fight.
His shield is the part that is a tad too strong, in both base and ratio. You could justify a shield that strong if he only got it when he stunned someone........but otherwise its simply too strong. Note that I don't think that would be a good idea, it would make the active of the skill almost not worth casting.
Just nerf the shield.
Mr Spaceman3 votesthe problem is he can still jump into it after it lands for the stun and the shield so if you doge it he still jumps in it for the shield
masterdragon4815 votesWhich is exactly why I think the shield is the part of the ability that needs to get nerfed.
If you get hit by the stun, it was either incredible planning/ ability by the ekko and his team, or you made a huge mistake. Either way, since the success cases of the stun are so few, it needs to be powerful.
The almost guaranteed part (the shield) shouldn't be as strong as it is.
GhostOfShrimpmas4 votesWhich is exactly why I think the shield is the part of the ability that needs to get nerfed.
If you get hit by the stun, it was either incredible planning/ ability by the ekko and his team, or you made a huge mistake. Either way, since the success cases of the stun are so few, it needs to be powerful.
The almost guaranteed part (the shield) shouldn't be as strong as it is.
Honestly, his W is one of the most well designed and interesting abilities in the game. It has a huge potential payoff, stronger than many ultimate abilities, but requires so much foresight and setup to get that it can afford to be overpowered when it works right. I agree that, if anything, the shield should be toned down, since the reward for being smart and planning should remain the same, but the reward for not doing that should be less.
GG Noob Team2 votesI would say the shield is that part that needs to get nerfed. Not the stun. The stun is a punishment for staying in a location that you knew about a LONG time ago for too long; and it also rewards Ekko for diving into the fight.
His shield is the part that is a tad too strong, in both base and ratio. You could justify a shield that strong if he only got it when he stunned someone........but otherwise its simply too strong. Note that I don't think that would be a good idea, it would make the active of the skill almost not worth casting.
Just nerf the shield.
For too long what the hell? Circle shows up 0.5 sec before the balls lands, get your facts straight maybe. You cannot see where it will cast 3 sec before it will land, and it has freaking 1.6k range... He could throw it under your towere, where you are going to escape, while seeing his W casting, kill you under it and save himself with ult.
Fiddlesticks has a targeted, instant fear, and they're still slowed by it. Fiddlesticks can use it reactively. Ekko's takes 3 seconds to actually come out (and thus is more of a proactive zoning/defensive tool most of the time), and the shield lasts for less than the stun time. I don't like Ekko very much, but his W is not the reason why
Sure, but fiddlesticks have to level it up and it has way shorter range.
It does not give fiddlesticks a shield, it does not make fiddlesticks auto attacks to execute everything below 30% hp, and it does not slow, and its definitely NOT AOE STUN.
See the DIFFERENCE?
So tell me now, which ability is better.
Super long distance, zooning tool, that grants you a shield, could stun everyone inside for fiddle 5 lvl Q duration from 1 lvl or at least slow them all for 40%, with a passive making your champion to do 10%+ missing health additional damage with autos to enemies below 30% hp.
Or the spell, that has 1.25 sec fear duration, 500 range and gives only extra duration while lvling up.
Terchio12 votesEnemies only have half a second... Ekko just has to try to luck out, and if he does, he and his team can go to town on their enemies. It's far more of a game-changer than a single-target assassin should have (as is his ultimate). The shield I could care less about... If he is flopping around ceaselessly anyway, he shouldn't be focused so hard (he still has cooldowns), but if he's going to CC the shit out of my team meanwhile, there's a problem.
I think they made it to keep his time theme high, as one has to predict enemy movement more with that skill. However, to put it on a very potent assassin was a mistake.
Rrett14 voteslocation that you knew about a LONG time ago for too long
what? You realize the enemies can't see where it's going untill like .5s before it lands, which is not enough time to actually dodge it.
It's even hard to note he used the spell at all.
Hard Penetrator4 votesThis is exactly my problem with this skill. Its range and radius are too high if it is used perfectly. You either flash or get stunned.
Leetri2 votesYou can hear him activate it ("Look out!") and you can see the clone batting it away, so if you have vision of him you will have the full 3 second warning. It's not hard to figure out where he aimed it either, since he wants both you and himself in that AoE in 3 seconds. Proper warding and map awareness hard-counters his stun. Or if you have your own CC you can always use it when he engages so he won't reach the AoE for the stun.
Agent Norris1 votesIf you look, the Shields duration is very short. If he does get a stun the Shield is gone before the stun. That makes the shield only truly useful if he doesn't get the stun. A fair traid off imo. You may have a valid argument, but it seems balanced to me.
masterdragon4812 votesVery true, but a 330 +80 % ap shield is incredibly high and, given the two other things the ability does, seems like too much of a good thing. The other two things being the stun (potential) and the % missing health damage.
It comes down to my general feelings about the champion; overall good, but overtuned in a few areas.
OyddAWqJ5r7 votesAnd he gets a 2.25 second shield that is completely wasted for the 2.25 second stun duration. Shield only matters when he misses. Which even then landing in your bubble 3 seconds later in a fight isn't the easiest thing to do.
100% justified imo. Only thing wrong about his kit is his 0 mana cost ult. A mana champ with no mana shouldn't be blindsiding you with a heavily damaging skill.
Mecha MaIphite2 votesHe can always cast it in a bush and E onto his target.
willcarry4gold3 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PwKsT8pz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-21T00:31:41.744+0000)
Because it takes 3 seconds to set up, reveals where it will be before landing, requires Ekko to enter the exact area for it to stun, and is extremely telegraphed?
consider the fact that it's longer than Annie's passive stun, Brand's enhanced sear, Cassiopeia's ultimate, Elise's cocoon, Gnar's wallop AND ultimate, Heimerdinger's storm grenade, Irelia's equilibrum strike, Jax's counter strike, Kennen's passive stun, Leona's ultimate and her Q, Lissandra's ultimate, Morgana's ultimate, Pantheon's jump, Poppy's dash, Renekton's ruthless predator, Riven's ki burst, Sejuani's glacial prison, Sion's unstoppable onslaught, Sona's ultimate, Syndra's E-Q, Taric's dazzle, Twisted fate's gold card, Udyr's bear stance, Vayne's condemn, Viktor's chaos storm, and Xerath's shocking orb. And don't even mention the strength of the shield OR the slow.
It Hertz When IP2 votesExcept that as a melee assassin, if he's diving in with it he's almost guaranteed to be in the target area?
Silents4294 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PwKsT8pz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-21T00:31:41.744+0000)
Because it takes 3 seconds to set up, reveals where it will be before landing, requires Ekko to enter the exact area for it to stun, and is extremely telegraphed?
Enemy only sees it when there is .5 seconds remaining.
The word "exact" is only a buzz word to make it seem challenging for him to get off, when all he has to do is run through it, telegraphed or not he has a long range slow to help keep people in range of it.
3 Seconds goes by quicker then people want to think it does.
PhDs Nuts19 votesThe stun should scale with level. There's no reason for it to be over 2 seconds at rank 1, before anyone can even get tenacity. That's max rank Veigar stun level.
Also, I'm not sure where people are getting this "3 seconds of warning" garbage, unless they've never played Ekko and never played against him.
"ACTIVE: Ekko calls upon an alternate version of himself that bats a device to the target location. After a total delay of 3 seconds, the device expands into a broad sphere that slows enemies by 40%. Enemies do not gain vision of the target area until the last 0.5 seconds."
C9 Scott Free 9 votesWhy are people lying in this thread? You don't know exactly where Ekko has placed it for about one second before it will detonate. Until then you just have knowledge he threw something. Unless, my client is bugged. You can assume he threw it right on you but if you watched any pros use his W they threw it behind you and then would E on the literal last second Q for the slow to force the flash or simply get the stun/kill
SoMNia2 votesYou don't know exactly where he put it, but you know the general direction, and you know how wide it is, so you know which areas are guaranteed safe as soon as he casts it, as long as you see him do it. You're supposed to sidestep skillshots, not run directly down their path away from them. And in this case, you don't have to get out of its path altogether, because if you're on the edge of the area when it becomes visible, you have plenty of time to get out.
Rrett7 votesif you're in the center and have no mobility when it finally tells you where it's going, you can't dodge it.
t3hcollective8 votesnew assassin champ gets a large aoe 2.25 sec stun plus hefty shield.
fid has to deal with 2.5 sec single target fear that pushes enemy out of drain tether and ult damage.
nah, riot doesn't overload new champs or anything.
Crett12 votesnew assassin champ gets a large aoe 2.25 sec stun plus hefty shield.
fid has to deal with 2.5 sec single target fear that pushes enemy out of drain tether and ult damage.
nah, riot doesn't overload new champs or anything.
Fiddlesticks has a targeted, instant fear, and they're still slowed by it. Fiddlesticks can use it reactively. Ekko's takes 3 seconds to actually come out (and thus is more of a proactive zoning/defensive tool most of the time), and the shield lasts for less than the stun time. I don't like Ekko very much, but his W is not the reason why
For Carthage5 votesIt's because his burst is incredibly mediocre. Yeah, after he's done with it all, it's a good amount of damage. But the actual amount of time it takes Ekko do his full range of damage - or even enough to kill an ADC - is more than the 1-2 seconds most assassins give you. The stun is a reward for a well set-up, well planned assassination attempt and allows him to actually be able to get in and out, do his job and not be instantly CC'd to oblivion by the enemy team.
While most assassins have a more foolproof way of getting into the zone, Ekko would have to rely heavily on somebody being out of place for him to run up and be able to do his E's dash. The W gives him an avenue of approach that he wouldn't otherwise have.
And for being one of the longest CC's in the game... Malzahar, Cho'Gath, Warwick, and Irelia are all examples of CC that can be just as devastating while simultaneously being far easier to land and being off of cooldown far sooner.
TheMoonMan3 votesactually, not including his ult, he can get his entire burst off in under 2 seconds with E procing his passive 1/3 of the way, q procing it 2/3 and an auto procing it for the third leaving all but the most mobile of champs to stop the Q from hitting them on the way back due to the 80% slow.
BorfinUrfdob5 votesEkko's stun should give him a quick window, not AoE stun an entire enemy team for as long as a Rammus taunt.
Mathlete8644 votesWhy is morgana's snare like a bajillion years? IDK
Xonra6 votesWhy is morgana's snare like a bajillion years? IDK
Snare is not the same as a stun, you can still attack and cast abilities
Ekko's 2.25 second STUN can hit multiple targets+shield him+slows+the ability also having a passive
Ekko Q also slows when it hits at the max range
Ekko's passive ALSO slows
So you are complaining about a skillshot root compared to an aoe STUN, that slows until it stuns, on the same champ with 2 other slows, none of this on his ult by the way.
Yeeeaaaah....what?
Virgin Ray4 votesNo assassin should ever have a stun, maybe a slow, but not a stun.
Xonra2 votes[{quoted}](name=Kenji Chang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PwKsT8pz,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2015-06-21T05:49:42.067+0000)
No assassin should ever have a stun, maybe a slow, but not a stun.
Let alone a slow field that then stuns if you don't get out (the stun in question) that is an aoe, with a passive that slows, and a Q that also slows (at max range it slows in an area around it).
Ekko is officially the new Lee Sin.
He is a tank/assassin/mage/jungle/mid/top with mobility and a self heal.
Vistha Kai5 votesYou forgot "melee/ranged/support" part.
IcyPepper3 votesI dunno, a 3 second warning is pretty nice too. Ensure it's not a guaranteed stun (like Annie's instant casts).
If it were up to me, I'd nerf the stun and buff the shield a tad. Not that the shield needs buffing, but as a power shift rather than an outright nerf.
DJ Di01 votesI dunno, a 3 second warning is pretty nice too. Ensure it's not a guaranteed stun (like Annie's instant casts).
If it were up to me, I'd nerf the stun and buff the shield a tad. Not that the shield needs buffing, but as a power shift rather than an outright nerf.
I'd lower the stun duration, and make change his shield; seriously that stun is almost double the duration than Sona's crescendo (her only hard cc, even if it doesn't have a windup time.)
Lower the base shield and scaling a bit, but make it stronger the more people he stuns with his W. This way he won't get instagibbed when he jumps into the enemy team, as he'll have a bigger shield, but he won't be impossible to 1vs1 because of how high his shield currently scales.
IcyPepper1 votesI would maybe buff the duration of the shield though, help out his jungling a bit (the shield is useless if the stun lasts longer).
edit: on hindsight, that's actually a terrible idea
Centuros6 votesThe whole point of the shield duration is that you aren't SUPPOSED to be able to use it against someone you stun.
Mecha MaIphite2 votesIf he casts it somewhere you can't see him, you barely get any warning. Enemies don't see the actual area until the last second.
SlushieDee1 votesActually, it's a 0.5 second delay. Because clarity?
IcyPepper1 votesHe has a clone that shouts "Batter up!" three seconds before it lands. That's the first warning. It's visual as well, you just don't see the area yet. You know he's going to do something, so you're able to outplay him.
But I will level with you, it could be bumped up to a full second, but I'm still remembering when Veigar was part of the .75 second club without a 3 second visual and audio warning and considered gutted for it.
Galois2 votesOh yea did you know Ekko can just block your pathway using w? If you get in, you are screwed(get slowed, or if he dashes you would prob get stunned), if you go the other way around, you are screwed... sooooo screwed both ways.
Davy Crockett3 votes
Problem?
Ghost Monster2 votesK. Make it take less than 3 from cast to activate and we can lower the stun duration. You have to be massively predictable if you're having it landed on you with any kind of consistency.
Malyshev2 votesIt's too long. It has a wider area than Sona's ult and stuns for 3/4 of a second longer
kunkudunk2 votesI wouldn't mind the stun if he didn't also have 3 slows and almost as much damage as other assassins.
Galois2 votesPeople : "It's very hard to land his w" Me : ... Are you serious? 3 seconds or not, put it in a place where you think the fight/teamfight will happen and kill everyone. Stun and shield which is both bs if you land it. Besides, just build him tank and you would still do dmg with all your abilities. I tried it once... kinda worked... also I hate his ult, so very annoying playing against him. Back to his w, nerf his shield please.
SlampieceHawke2 votesAs a 
player, I also wonder this. Could they at least compensate by giving me the power to suddenly warp 100 yards away just like ekko? I mean if he can be an assassin with the cc of a tank, then why can't be an assassin? Da fuq.
Thank ú Next2 votesEkko's W just provides TOO MUCH. Even without that ability he still has the passive on it that deals 5% + (some AP ratio) of the target's missing health to champions under 30% health. I don't mind the passive, but give him a stun AND a shield, that's too much. Just a small nerf to the shield and possibly to the stun is what it should receive.
Highfather1 votesBecause you'd have to be half retarded to be caught in it, especially in laning phase.
Dar Raksada3 votesMost ekko's I've seen from the jungle had great succes landing it on laners, they'd just go about their regular farming/harassing routine in a frozen land and suddenly they're stunned and ganked.