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Jungle EXP needs to be hotfixed, this role is now unplayable in games with good players

Yenn·11/24/2019, 6:13:15 AM·25 votes·8,762 views

Every single lane needs to have priority, or you may as well go AFK.

You also can't help them get priority, because you're forced to farm. If you stop farming to pressure a lane, your opponent invades and steals your camps, putting you extremely behind, because every camp matters.

When your second buffs spawn, you're basically just removed from the game if your lanes don't already have priority on their own. If the opponent has priority, you'll be invaded and killed by a level 7 laner at each buff, while you're still only level 4, pushing level 5.

Likewise, the top and mid lane are almost completely ungankable, because you're at such a huge level disadvantage. If your laner is already losing, you can't do anything to help them or pressure the lane, because you'll just die. It's incredibly frustrating to watch this and know the opponent is starting to snowball, without being able to do anything about it.

Bottom lane is also virtually untouchable, because you cannot go Sweeper pre-6. The ward trinket is necessary to stop the laners from catching you in your jungle.

Even more fun is when you're behind the enemy jungle. Every camp they steal puts you further behind, with no way to catch up. Warwick is currently pushing 57% win rate because he can just constantly invade and shut down his opponent with little risk.

These changes should be completely reverted. The role is almost entirely ineffective in this state. If not, there at least needs to be some change to mitigate invading.

34 Comments

Yenn11/24/2019, 6:59:37 AM6 votes

In a recent game, I had an Ezreal in bottom lane and started my Red late and without a leash due to a level 1 fight. I then went straight to my Blue. As I started doing it, the enemy bottom, mid, and level 3 Warwick invaded me and I had to concede both blue and gromp. I go to do Krugs so I can finally get level 3, and the level 3 Warwick runs in and steals the big Krug with smite because I'm only level 2.

I'm now level 2 and the only camp up is raptors, which won't even give me level 3. There is quite literally nothing I can do to get back into this game, because catch up mechanics are gone.

In another game, I had to concede all 4 dragons to the enemy Jax despite being a 9-3-5 Udyr, because I had a Ryze in mid lane and he never has priority. This happens in every single game with a late game champion in one of your lanes.

Jungle has basically devolved into being a smite bot. The individual impact has dropped to near zero.

Fuhrer Usagi11/24/2019, 7:04:49 AM6 votes

Go tryn or noc. build sanguine. Don't even tier 2 the jg item. Just rush sanguine. Feels like regular jg at that point

Mihalikb11/24/2019, 7:14:34 AM6 votes

I don't play Jungle but I have the same feeling of near uselessness top.

Herald is pointless, it's a useless time/resource investment that you risk dying over if you try to take it, but if you do take it, it won't even give you a tower kill.

You get way more out of just contesting and getting the Scuttle Crab, as it gives gold/roam/vision. Scuttle right now is magnitudes more valuable than a Herald.

Also if you actually roam to assist with Dragons you don't just surrender priority but also CS, XP and probably plates, turning your lane into a losing one.

The whole game is a mess decided 100% around the Dragon pit that as a top laner you have little to no impact on unless you are playing Shen/Ryze/Pantheon/Galio and maybe Quinn.

This is not even discussing the balance problems around Conqueror on mages and Sanguine Blade on auto attackers.

Two words define this season for me so far, impotence and frustration.

mark602811/24/2019, 3:05:26 PM4 votes

Junglers having a mental breakdown because they actually have to play their role again and can't just autopilot buff camp camp gank camp gank camp gank with the map being split in half at red side for both junglers.

Which obviously means jungle is doomed as is every season despite it being the most broken role since s6 only rivaled by duo botlane.

muteallpce11/24/2019, 11:03:29 AM4 votes

There is a counter to invades and that is teamwork and warding, neither of which happen in the majority of solo queue games, and if they do, it's not done well. So there needs to be either more player autonomy in preventing invades or just revert the changes, because right now the only real legitimate jungle game play pattern I see is hard camping and farming heroes instead of farming jungle, and ain't nobody going to like that.

The only people who will like this are people who watch pro play because it incentivises hyper aggressive game play, so it's yet again a case of Riot trying to make pro play better instead of the game better for the 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the player base that don't play professionally.

Zero Skill Tank11/24/2019, 10:46:52 AM3 votes

These changes should be completely reverted.

Most definitely not, impact disparity between jungle and other roles, especially the solo lanes, needed to be vastly reduced or this game wouldn't last another season.

Sorry but falling behind because your lanes don't have prio is really no different then falling behind bacause your jungler doesn't has prio. Nor is getting invaded any worse then getting camped.

Now, the nerfs might have been too much, IMO it's hard to judge them immediately due to simultaneous dragon changes, but they were extremely needed and way overdue. Junglers were allowed their "overlord" role in soloq in the name of dynamic pro play for way, way too long.

So some help for junglers - probably yes, I can definitely see the struggle. Complete revert - plain and simple no, those changes overall pushed the game in better direction.

Pierce The Veal11/24/2019, 12:30:13 PM3 votes

I gotta say, having been delayed by 15 seconds getting first blood on a draven that tried to pull some shenanigans at my red buff at the beginning of the game, I found my blue buff gone as well as the enemy jungle’s own jungle cleared. Now, I’m not a jungle player, and I really was only testing it out, but that does feel kind of silly. If the enemy laners show up in my jungle at all and my teammates do not reciprocate, never being able to catch up feels preeeeetty ridiculous.

ŚtrongMental11/24/2019, 3:18:29 PM2 votes

I feel bad that you see jungle in one-dimension. If you want to catch some XP that would give you an edge back into the game, find a source of solo XP that doesn't impact laners (much) it is out there, you just have to find it. Most games you should be breaking even with solo laners in levels, if not be 1-2 ahead by 13 minutes. if you aren't you are doing something wrong (regardless of jungler taken)

Support Position11/24/2019, 8:02:42 PM2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support Position,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E93n0qrF,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-11-24T19:43:48.100+0000)

Just a question, are you killing your krugs? As they are the best non buff exp in the game other than gromp.

You HAVE to protect Gromp, Krugs and raptors. Other than your buffs. Ward up. Its not exp that sucks. Its the fact that SPECIFIC champions are good.

(With pillar)

Now a days you HAVE to play things that YOU can 1v1 enemy junglers.

(some situations.) (kind of) things like this YOU CANNOT play anymore. At all. Period. You're too exp and gold dependant. You at level 1. NEED to be able to fight an enemy jungler and win.

That's this meta for the junglers. Staying IN their jungle. Basically not ganking unless its 100% FOR SURE. A kill. Or a flash for a guaranteed kill next time. It's "unfortunate" but its the new meta.

Unless your this. Then you know what? You can do whatever the fuck you want cause you'll just take it anyway.

WoonStruck11/24/2019, 8:01:24 PM1 votes

It'd be nice if they removed the "first camp exp bonus" and actually properly scaled the jungle and respawn.

If junglers are just clearing too efficiently and not interacting with the game, instead of adjusting spawn time, adjust TIME INVESTMENT to each camp. This is why Krugs were BALANCED despite their massive exp/gold difference to other camps.

If certain champs become problematic because of bonus damage effects (which includes on-hits, %HP in many forms, etc) then reduce specific or even ALL forms of bonus damage, maybe with the exception of jungle items. If certain champs remain a problem, you know they probably need reduced monster damage on some skills. Possibly increase/reduce these bonuses depending on the stage of the game. Hell, with the amount of data tracked by the API, you could have the jungle items increase/decrease your damage based on your dps while fighting monsters. This would make it a catch-up mechanism for slow junglers (tanks, so they don't have to have broken damage to reliably jungle) without directly increasing exp/gold, and would be unaffected by gank time.

NaughtyWord11/29/2019, 6:13:13 PM1 votes

Whenever I'm autofilled it is for jungle.

I'm refusing to play that mess of a lane. It's rare I dodge games, but now I will. The fact I rarely play the lane notwithstanding. It is also self-evident that I'm far from the only one with this perception considering I'm constantly autofilled for the role.

The only people playing the lane are die-hard junglers and autofills.

Yenn11/28/2019, 9:03:22 AM1 votes

Lmao literally watching an Olaf take every single dragon with full vision, as well as invading all of the buffs in my fully warded jungle with his mid lane, and not being able to do anything about it because I have a Kassadin in mid and I'm already insanely behind from having to concede everything.

While every camp I concede puts me permanently further behind because we decided to remove catch up mechanics from the jungle for some reason.

This is insane.

Aminumbra11/28/2019, 9:23:46 AM1 votes

Wow, it is as if all your laners were individually weaker than their direct opponent, and if you picked a champion unable to farm against the ennemy jungler, then ... you can't farm ! How sad. Ever played toplane with a shitty matchup, and with a jungler that does not come top at all (either because he doesn't want to, or can't) ? Well, you ALSO concede any form of priority and are basically a walking minion. Ever got frozen by a Tryndamere for 5 consecutives minutes because your jungler don't want to help you burst the freeze ? Well, you also are denied xp. Ever played a weak early game adc, like Vayne, with a Soraka, against Lucian/Thresh ? Well, you also concede a shit ton of cs, and prio, hence drakes, and the ennemy support is free to roam midlane and win the mid matchup.

Junglers have forgotten that the global team composition can directly affect your matchup. As top is greatly influenced by jungle, and mid can be influenced by jungle and support matchups, you, as a jungler, can also be put in a difficult situation due to how other lanes are going. Your mid has no prio, your top has no prio and you're strong enough to invade the ennemy jungler ? Then of course you are gonna lose things, while would you be able to farm safely when anyone in the same situation would have to concede things ? Now, you have to take a decision, and decide what you are going to farm, if you are going to steal the ennemy camps when he is taking yours, etc.

That being said, it is possible that the numbers still need some tuning, as I have indeed seen some junglers being SUPER behind their counterpart. However, it is possible that they were simply playing poorly, in which case the xp diff could simply be fair. However, removing the catch-up xp mechanic is good. If you are behind, you have to play better than your ennemy to come back, not simply farm one full jungle clear & be back into the game as if nothing happened.

blindasleep11/28/2019, 10:25:01 AM1 votes

{quoted}

Every single lane needs to have priority, or you may as well go AFK.

You also can't help them get priority, because you're forced to farm. If you stop farming to pressure a lane, your opponent invades and steals your camps, putting you extremely behind, because every camp matters.

When your second buffs spawn, you're basically just removed from the game if your lanes don't already have priority on their own. If the opponent has priority, you'll be invaded and killed by a level 7 laner at each buff, while you're still only level 4, pushing level 5.

Likewise, the top and mid lane are almost completely ungankable, because you're at such a huge level disadvantage. If your laner is already losing, you can't do anything to help them or pressure the lane, because you'll just die. It's incredibly frustrating to watch this and know the opponent is starting to snowball, without being able to do anything about it.

Bottom lane is also virtually untouchable, because you cannot go Sweeper pre-6. The ward trinket is necessary to stop the laners from catching you in your jungle.

Even more fun is when you're behind the enemy jungle. Every camp they steal puts you further behind, with no way to catch up. Warwick is currently pushing 57% win rate because he can just constantly invade and shut down his opponent with little risk.

These changes should be completely reverted. The role is almost entirely ineffective in this state. If not, there at least needs to be some change to mitigate invading.

I had the idea of Ivern taking unsealed spellbook, smite and teleport, as support, since he can support, so you can steal a buff and then teleport out to bot tower or back and then to bot for slightly more lane advantage as long as you had faith in your duo, just of because how jungle mains have been saying how much harder getting counter jungled fucks them now. Someone I talked to about it did it in gold and it worked at least a few games for them.

ImGoingScotty11/29/2019, 8:02:00 AM1 votes

I'm low ranked but I feel it's more focused on the lane setting up a gank. I've just been playing normals mainly assassins in jungle and don't even bother with lanes unless they're actually kill able ganks. If they're pushing fuck em. I'll go in if I can pick a kill or get a lane a kill but you can't try to force anything with how the jungle is now. Also you can take advantage of the enemy jungler trying to put pressure. For instance you're clearing top and they just failed a gank bot lane.. go take their jungle it's free at that point.

Ashe mage AD11/24/2019, 9:15:47 AM1 votes

So what you're saying is if they added wards on jungle item so you can buy red trinket that would be fine or?