If your champion can't 100 to 0 someone in 3-4 seconds, it's not viable in top, mid, or jungle

Yenn·Jun 9, 2018·158 votes·23,126 views

With a very small number of exceptions.

No, seriously. This is what the meta has come to. The vast majority of champions in all three roles have enough damage that a single 'trade' ends up with one party dead.

Can we please go back to times when playing intelligently and having a well rounded team won games, instead of this bullshit where handicapped monkeys go balls to the wall 24/7, and the monkey with the most damage wins?

UPDATE: This now extends to bottom lane as well!

141 Comments

nGioJun 9, 201886 votes

3-4 seconds to kill someone? You must mean LATE game vs a tank. I'd say "if you can't 100 to 0 someone before their Electrocute procs you're not viable". I can't believe this shit show made it out of preseason.

MarothennanJun 9, 201832 votes

IT'S JUST PRESEASON GUYS

SwiftKitten88Jun 9, 201810 votes

{quoted}

IT'S JUST PRESEASON GUYS

i feel like its been preseason since season 5..

VerandureJun 9, 20182 votes

That'd be about the time that started getting wheeled out as an excuse.

Madsin25Jun 9, 201858 votes

Maybe open mid attitudes are the issue? -Meddler

Cowgirl EdJun 9, 20181 votes

LMFAO laughed way too hard

Yets4240Jun 10, 20184 votes

But its an almost literal quote.

I just find it sad tbh.

BumperlaneJun 9, 201837 votes

Yeah this game is fucked. Remember when mages were a thing in mid lane for all of a bout one month? Good times.

AstorineJun 9, 201822 votes

I can confirm as tank garen i wreck most peeps with about 6 seconds, heck last game i never backed so i was blank garen and got a kill every time i unloaded my kit. Assassins are 1 shot cancer at this point and even tanks have huge damage they are sure to inflict due to cc. (cough cough volibear), this game has few "trades" as it is and just dives instead.

QuantumLogicJun 9, 20181 votes

i agree with you, but one question .. out of curiousity : (question is a simplified version of my actual question since it is hard to phrase the original question) would you say to nerf overall damage or to buff overall defence ?

AstorineJun 10, 20182 votes

As BoianV said, a tank meta is less desirable then nerfing damage. A dmg nerf would make it so assasins need to prey on isolated weaklings of low hp champs, (sorta like the whole role implies) and tanks cant burst down anyone instantly.

hi ìm grootJun 9, 201819 votes

100%

Honestly if this game doesn't revert to more like it was before, then this is definitely going to be my last season.

State of this game is total garbage and I've only been able to enjoy this game this season as something to do while drinking and listening to music.

MasterDCloneJun 9, 20181 votes

define before, because the game is reverting to before around season 3 would be the parallel atm

hi ìm grootJun 9, 20184 votes

{quoted}

define before, because the game is reverting to before around season 3 would be the parallel atm

Between season 4 when I started playing and season 7. Before it was acceptable for a assassin that was behind in gold to one shot an adc with one ability and one auto. Game has just become to bursty for there to be counterplay.

MarothennanJun 9, 201814 votes

I miss the days when this game was balanced by humans

5050BSJun 9, 201811 votes

If you cant 100-0 someone in ONE combo (counting Ult) then you cant play Mid, top or jungle

Somebody Love MeJun 9, 201811 votes

Playing Soraka as a heal bot? Nahnahnah let's max E and chunk out the enemy ADC if they even think of CSing.

Janna as a shield bot? Fuck no. Put hella points in W and chunk out the enemy ADC if they even think of CSing.

Bard as a utility champ? You're high. Take electrocute and auto twice lv 1 to chunk out the enemy ADC if they even think of CSing.

ninjaroxasJun 10, 20181 votes

Are you being sarcastic or not. Call me stupid because I can't tell.

DorkunedAurasJun 10, 20184 votes

They're being somewhat serious, as all of these things are currently how the champs are being played in lane.

ninjaroxasJun 10, 20181 votes

Are people actually maxing E on raka? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm because of that part.

Somebody Love MeJun 11, 20181 votes

Yes.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 11, 20182 votes

Soraka has a heal? Oh that ability called eQuInOx?

ZackTheWaffleManJun 9, 201810 votes

Counterpoint: Malphite mid into Zed.

Giga BaboonJun 9, 20188 votes

Meddler thinks league of legends should be like call of duty or fortnite, where you just press a button and poof instant gratification. League is finished.

Inb4 ghostcrawler takes to reddit to cry about how it's not his fault stop being mean something something air planes.

VICHEL CHAOSJun 9, 20187 votes

This incredibly reasoned thread is evidenced by the very accurate observations from "My last games", backed up by the famous "Everyone says so" study, conducted by the university of "It is like this because it just is, trust me" by pulling stats out of "My ass".

YennJun 9, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=VICHEL CHAOS,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QnVRvBnj,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-06-09T07:45:26.686+0000)

This incredibly reasoned thread is evidenced by the very accurate observations from "My last games", backed up by the famous "Everyone says so" study, conducted by the university of "It is like this because it just is, trust me" by pulling stats out of "My ass".

Or, you know, you could actually look at pick and win rates and notice that virtually all of the top champions have high damage burst.

VICHEL CHAOSJun 9, 20185 votes

Ok, lets do so. Apart form the fact that you are the one making claims so the burden of proof should be on you which is a concept that you seem to not be able to grasp (don't worry, maybe one day if you try hard enough), lets take a look at the top 20 winrate champions. Kennen: Not a burst champion. Udyr: Not a burst champion. Sion: Not a burst champion. Asol: Not a burst champion. Nami. Sona, Ornn, Mordekaiser, not burst champions. Janna. Let me now look at the top 20 picked champions: Nami, Morgana, Thresh, Lulu, Janna, Rakan, Caitlyn, Soraka are not burst champions. It doesnt matter that half of those are supports, your claim is simply wrong. So, your "Virtually all top champions have high burst" is simply wrong. Hence, your whole thread is whining.

I do not expect you to take back your claim even when proven wrong because of narcisism, it is hard for someone who is lazy enough to leave the burden of proof to other people and fall on common fallacies to trick himself to actually admit that the claim they made is completely empty. Luckily Riot knows better and you will be simply ignored by them and fall into the abyss of empty whining threads that are rightfully looked away from.

Call me when your mindless whining actually gets change moving! :)

YennJun 9, 20187 votes

[deleted]

VICHEL CHAOSJun 9, 20184 votes

I responded to your answer. "Or, you know, you could actually look at pick and win rates and notice that virtually all of the top champions have high damage burst." That statement is blatantly wrong.

Udyr is not a burst champion. Period. Outliers are still champion in the top 20 win rate, so they still prove your statement wrong.

I'm sorry if you want to throw a tantrum. But still, don't worry, it doesn't matter what I say because you are still going to be completely ignored by the ones which count and you can do nothing about it :)

FefnilJun 9, 20187 votes

I think the issue here is that OP didn't mention burst champions, but called for "champions that can 100-to-0 someone in 3-4 seconds", which is slightly different, since it depends on more things. While Udyr is a dps champion, in this meta with the right setup he CAN effectively melt a squishy in few seconds, so yes, he's correctly included. If, from your list, we remove marksmen and supports (since OP talked about top, mid and jungle) and remove tanks that function as team-oriented picks that only want to survive lane phase to scale in the midgame, we are left with Kennen, ASol and Mordekaiser. Of these, ASol is the only one who really needs time, while the other 2 follow the same idea of Udyr.

Pika FoxJun 9, 20187 votes

...? Udyr isnt a burst champion. Do you even know what burst IS?

ShinjusukeJun 10, 20183 votes

Udyr shouldn't be a burst champion. The current state of the meta, his slight rework (especially to Tiger Strike), and some of the new items have turned him into a very possible burst champion, assuming he can get on top of you.

The guy has a point. Tiger-stance Udyr has wholeheartedly become a burst champion.

Pika FoxJun 10, 20182 votes

If you have 400 HP AP soraka auto attacks becomes a burst champion. Udyr isnt a burst champion.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 11, 20181 votes

Amumu is a burst champion at this point. You can name almost every single champion, they can burst. If you reply to this comment, open the fucking champion image tool, and count how many FUCKING LINES are filled with champions that can burst.

ninjaroxasJun 9, 20182 votes

Um how about you use the facts that don't just help your argument? Such as the fact the post said mid,top,and jungle and not supports, or most of the high winrate champions have a tiny playrate made of mostly one tricks and mains.

Also stop acting like an elitist asshole and maybe people would actually listen to what you said

VICHEL CHAOSJun 10, 20182 votes

Regardless of their playrate champions with high winrates exist who are not based on burst. That fact alone simply counteracts his argument that they are the vast minority when they make up a significant percentage of the chapions with high win rate, so I am completely entitled to use it especially when he didn't even take on the burden of proof when making his claim. When I included the champions from support and adc I was responding to his reply to me, not his opening post for the reason that I think it is completely generalized, unreasoned and has no valid proof. His statement "virtually all of the top champions have high damage burst" is simply wrong and I just took stats from champion.gg to prove that.

Also I do not care in the slightest how I sound to you or if you listen or not to what I say. If you have any problem with how I sound feel free to report my post and have someone take a look at it.

ninjaroxasJun 10, 20183 votes

But your original comment was to his post not his reply to you, the fact you are trying to avoid that fact make it obvious you just want to be right even of you have to twist the facts to be so. his orgnial post talked about being viable, which most of the champions you listed champions are not. So no it doesn't counteract his argument. If you are sticking to your original comment then you should be able to list the viable champions for those roles that arent able to kill someone relatively quickly. He also said there are a few exceptions, so at least half of them would have to be not able to for him to be wrong.

There's no rule against acting like an elitist asshole, it just makes you an asshole. The fact you even commented on this post means you do care or you wouldnt have said anything to start with.

I think the fact all your comments are being down voted also shows how wrong you are, but im sure its because they are all a bunch of whiners and you know better then them because you say so.

RαyJun 9, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Can we please go back to times when playing intelligently and having a well rounded team won games, instead of this bullshit where handicapped monkeys go balls to the wall 24/7, and the monkey with the most damage wins?

This nails it for me. League has become a game about reaction time rather than strategy. There is no real splitpush, no tactical fights or any room for outplay potential. Everyone is some sort of assassin; it's a complete oneshot-fiesta and frustrating af. Heck, one year ago you wouldn't just instantly die in an outnumbered situation. You had room to fight it out while escaping. But right now, you are just caught out and die. 99% of the case.

The damage right now is simply too high. I'm sick of 10 kills after 5 minutes every game while I still try to figure out a game plan in the jungle. I want League, not a MOBA Deathmatch.

YoNightmare7Jun 9, 20186 votes

I wish Riot would just make LoL come back to season 5, that's the one I enjoyed the most.

sweetrulesJun 9, 20185 votes

Yeah, for years they've been trying to speed games up, but now we've finally hit the point where they've gone overboard and no one likes the result. The game needs to slow down a bit, funnily enough. Which means damage needs to be trimmed back across the board.

An DraoiJun 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, for years they've been trying to speed games up, but now we've finally hit the point where they've gone overboard and no one likes the result. The game needs to slow down a bit, funnily enough. Which means damage needs to be trimmed back across the board.

IMO, the amount of time it takes for a game doesn't need to slow down. I'll happily take 25-35 minute games over 45-55 minute games.

The problem is game pacing. It's 85% of the time a roflstomp from one team or the other (admittedly, this has been improving. it was worst right when we came out of preseason shudder).

sweetrulesJun 10, 20181 votes

So you'd also like to see a bunch of champs removed from the game. Nasus, Veigar, Kindred, etc... All those champs are usually varying from non-existent to minor influence till 35-40+ minutes into the game. Right now it's too focused on snowballing and high burst damage for the meta. And I'm sick of seeing "so and so champ isn't doing enough damage, they need buffs." from the balance team. The problem isn't champs that aren't nuking squishies in 1 second, it's the other way around. I don't know the last time I had a game go much longer than 40 minutes. I'm not saying I want all games to go that long, but it would be nice to see variety, and the current meta discourages it. I only play normals because I don't like being forced to play certain champs. I'd play flex if I felt I could still have some fun in it, but not picking the top tier champs is nearly report-worthy right now. Because it's either snowball or get steamrolled meta right now. I don't find that fun. I occasionally like playing assassins, But I shouldn't be rewarded a kill for barely trying. Which is what most of the whiners on the forums lately want. That's why Yasuo is getting buffed when he doesn't need it, same with trynd most likely.

ZeroAgainstJun 9, 20185 votes

man i just came back in s8 and now they made burst worst what the fuck

3TWarriorJun 9, 20183 votes

shorter match times means more money in the east...

starcraft and various other games have had this problem

ZeroAgainstJun 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

shorter match times means more money in the east...

starcraft and various other games have had this problem

its so cancer at this point like the fuck

BonipherusJun 9, 20185 votes

and yet here we are with the "Nerf Singed" thing going on and on when he takes 3 times as long as that or more to kill somebody. and Aurelion Sol help you if they have any magic resistance. especially an item 3194

VelasanJun 9, 20184 votes

Yeah the issue with situations like this are that really high damage means lack of skill expression. It turns into who pressed their buttons first.

Sort of like if Blood Moon was the main and only game mode. No vision and everyone is an assassin insta killing eachother. It's especially bad when your team feeds (or you feed) because damage is so high that it makes hard to risk anything without getting exploded. Add lower vision to that and you can't even see objectives to contest them. The team that is ahead gets all the scrying plants/scuttles.

Tank metas may have been frustrating when a Sejuani could sit on you during a team fight, but what's worse; a Sejuani who does low damage trying to keep you out of a team fight or a Sejuani who can't tank anything and yet is being encouraged to build damage who will blow you up instead? At least when tanks are tanky everyone gets to play out their role. They added higher AP scalings to Zac, and Sejuani is getting the same treatment next patch, and AP Malphite is already popular this season.

Spacesuit SpiffJun 10, 20182 votes

Accurate. We play this for the pvp, and when you instanuke someone you aren't playing pvp with them anymore, and they're just playing Gray Screen. People want to be able to just jump on someone and blow them up without having to worry about counterplay, because that's a simple way to win... but that's what singleplayer games are for, since they let you do it way more often and without anyone wanting to do the same to you.

ADC Blaming SuppJun 9, 20183 votes

yeh, i definitely enjoyed more from last meta when every team had 4 tanks and vayne just becouse playing assassins was not an option. Im glad theyre reverting back some of that invidual performance and nerfing all these tanks and defensive items. End of the day somebody is always whining no matter what meta it is and only reason why somebody would want this game to be decided in pick/ban phase is peoples who cant solo carry themselves and just wanna leech by playing braindead tank and peeling adc. Also Riot stated that they wish to convert league back more to the old days where players were able to affect outcome of the games much more in next season, so this is just transferring into that state slowly Back in season 3 you were able to oneshot with almost any champions and playerbase making montages was happier than ever. i miss u oneshot ahri AND mejai attack damage item wich name i dont remember. bring it back

KubuśJun 9, 201818 votes

I'm a Zed main, and I see where you're coming from about the tank meta, but even I preferred that to this oneshot meta. I do think while this converts league more into a "carry by yourself" game, it also reduces comebacks and turns every match into an irreversible, snowbally, stompy game. Obviously, not everyone is always going to be happy, but at least when damage is tuned back a bit and teamfights are more thoughtful, it feels like you have a chance. That's not the case now when a 5-0 wukong oneshots 3 people on your team.