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im not sure i like the addition of a slow to illaois q.

Critmaster Garen··2 votes·535 views

yes, the champion needs buffs. dont get me wrong, i like illaoi as a champion, and i like to play her.

but adding a slow to her q just doesnt seem in the right spirit, or is going to help her a lot. juggernauts are concentrated packages of damage and defense in melee, with little utility in their kits. i feel like illaoi already has a higher than average threat range for a jugg with her q and her e, and her test of spirit is her mechanic to stick to an opponent. not sure adding more utility keeps her identity or will end up making her too strong, which would probably result in damage nerfs.

imo one of the problems illaoi has, is that shes actually not very tanky for a juggernaut. in her ideal scenario when she manages to get between multiple opponents, it feels like she blows up way too fast, and doesnt actually have the time to hammer down her enemies and benefit from the heal before she dies.

have you tried adding a resistance buff to her kit, instead of more utility?

reducing harsh lessons cooldown to 1 second while her ult is active, instead of 2 seconds might be another way to go about it.

the animation times on her w and tentacles are so long, that the actual window between tentacle smashes is more like 3 seconds right now.

7 Comments

Serpents Embrace1 votes

I would find that preferable, really. Even when I have a lot of the same defensive items as an opposing, say, Darius. He's harder to kill, even though I'm healing myself much more. And I really don't play this type of champion enough to really understand why that is.

The changes to Harsh Lesson are also kind of strange. I'm not sure if it can even be called an improvement. It might even be different in a worse way.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serpents Embrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2goZeKR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-05-21T04:27:11.362+0000)

I would find that preferable, really. Even when I have a lot of the same defensive items as an opposing, say, Darius. He's harder to kill, even though I'm healing myself much more. And I really don't play this type of champion enough to really understand why that is.

The changes to Harsh Lesson are also kind of strange. I'm not sure if it can even be called an improvement. It might even be different in a worse way.

there was this idea floating around to give illaoi a rank scaling resistance buff on her ult for each nearby tentacle. basically like wukongs passive, or the legendary guardian mastery for tentacles.

imagine they make it like 3/4/5 armor/mr for each nearby tentacle. if she managed to get between 5 enemy champions and get 5 tentacles from her ult, it would already grant her 25 resistances and upwards for additional tentacles she might have spawned in the area.

Serpents Embrace1 votes

That sounds perfect, though?

You need to be around Tentacles to get any value, you're rewarded for good positioning when you use your ultimate, you're not getting huge resistance buffs ALL THE TIME (@Graves)...

I don't see why they went for the slow, then. I've found Iceborn to be a pretty core item for her unless I'm really ahead. That already provides a slow at about the same range and with more consistency...

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serpents Embrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u2goZeKR,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-21T04:34:17.827+0000)

That sounds perfect, though?

You need to be around Tentacles to get any value, you're rewarded for good positioning when you use your ultimate, you're not getting huge resistance buffs ALL THE TIME (@Graves)...

I don't see why they went for the slow, then. I've found Iceborn to be a pretty core item for her unless I'm really ahead. That already provides a slow at about the same range and with more consistency...

actually, thats a good point. if she wants a slow to be stickier, she can already itemize into it.

Regulas1 votes

If you noticed the other changes they've been modifying her to allow her to go tankier while still having damage (Q does more damage before counting AD, and W is percentile damage) so this way you can build far more tankyness without loosing as much damage. Even the slow is essentially about going in that direction as it makes her even more useful without needing to go pure damage.

I do agree that the main thing she needs is an animation speed increase. Most of her animations are around .8 seconds which is just way too reactable and having even just one animation faster would help her more then anything else. (.5 seconds is an average reaction speed meaning that an opponent doesn't even need to predict Illaoi's moves to be able to easily dodge them).

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

If you noticed the other changes they've been modifying her to allow her to go tankier while still having damage (Q does more damage before counting AD, and W is percentile damage) so this way you can build far more tankyness without loosing as much damage. Even the slow is essentially about going in that direction as it makes her even more useful without needing to go pure damage.

I do agree that the main thing she needs is an animation speed increase. Most of her animations are around .8 seconds which is just way too reactable and having even just one animation faster would help her more then anything else. (.5 seconds is an average reaction speed meaning that an opponent doesn't even need to predict Illaoi's moves to be able to easily dodge them).

im not sure she even can build more tanky. shes already building standart jugg items. her build is already the same what garen and darius would build.

http://champion.gg/champion/Illaoi

the damage buff is good though.

i agree on her w animation time being too long.

im always cauteous with utility buffs like the addition of that slow. champions have been known to completely get their damage nerfed on multiple, or even all abilities and have still seen a rise in winrate due to utility buffs they received in the same patch.

buffing her damage multiple patches in a row, and then adding a slow, might cause her to overshoot. i dont want her to get trashed the patch after and be top ban for the next 2 month because people are slow to adapt to chanegs and keep banning champs even when they are not strong anymore.

Regulas1 votes

It's mostly to do with build orders, while Illaoi eventually builds tanky she doesn't build items like Plate or Visage till later especially since she basically locked into cleaver with it's mere 300HP and no other defense stats. By contrast Darius and Garen for example can build whatever they need however say starting with Visage or Dead man's plate if that's the case or any other variation and they aren't really hurting for dmg if they don't start it and vice versa they could still rush Cleaver if it fits best. (Garens in particular tend to rush HP item's first).

Illaoi basically has to build damage first or else you just do nothing useful, so if you start visage then you're basically not a threat. I've tried more then once not rushing Cleaver or Steraks or other raw AD and it really really doesn't work, your entire full combo does almost no damage and you lack other utility, it's kind of like when an ADC rushes atk speed instead of infinity edge.

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