Riot is not going to revert the Morde rework.
So stop asking. Bring on the downvotes.
So stop asking. Bring on the downvotes.
Why should I down vote? You are just telling the truth, Riot will never revert that rework, they'll never admit they completely fucked up and created an abomination. They don't give a fuck about a champion, unless that champ can make flashy plays, is fan's favorite and has at least 10% pick rate.
Let me make it more clear then. Riot is never going to revert the Morde rework, and that is 100% the right decision. OId Morde was a joke champion that could never be allowed to be viable because of how underloaded, brainless, and low interaction his kit was. New Morde at least shows promise as a adc substitute to counter dive and anti-carry teams. New Morde is definitely overtuned atm but the concept of a bot lane carry is solid overall even if the details still need to ironed out. Old Morde was never picked competitively unless he was blatantly overtuned at the time; there was no good reason to ever pick old Morde when he was "balanced". Bot lane Morde at least shows potential to be both balanced and worth picking.
Ok, I know, old Mordekaiser's kit had a lot, and I mean, really a lot of problems. So, let's see, what champion's rework should do? Maybe try and fix champions problems, flesh out his thematics even more, make him a valuable teammate? Like, seriously, what Morde rework should do is improve the solo lane experience and put more pressure into heavy metal thematics, the thematics around Morde's visual design was created. What did we get instead? A melee bot lane carry. I agree, the bot lane is dominated too much by adc+support playstyle, and it is cool that Riot wants to change it up a bit, but how about making a completely new goddamn champion to become such adc substitute instead of reworking existing one into such thing?
New Morde is definitely overtuned atm
No, he is not just overtuned atm, he is broken and flawed from design standpoint. The way Morde was transformed into bot laner is inherently toxic. Basically, you are getting rewards for what you do with every other existing champion. You get free experience, just because you can right click on minion in proper, quite long time frame. Also, don't you think that a buff your entire team gets for dragon is already quite strong? Well, now you can also get dragon's ghost, which pretty much guarantees getting free tower in early game. Is it fair?
Old Morde was never picked competitively
He was picked twice by Roccat's Overpow last season. Also, is being picked regularly at LCS a new determinant of champion being well designed? Have you seen Malzahar at LCS? Swain? Heimerdinger? No? I guess they suck and they need to be reworked? No. Some champions are just better at solo Q than in competitive play and they should stay like that.
Bot lane Morde at least shows potential to be both balanced and worth picking.
Not with such design choices. Right now, Mordekaiser is impossible to balance because of two parts of his new kit: free experience and dragon ghost. Whatever will Riot do with Mordekaiser, he will be extremely overpowered or extremely useless. Morde is worth picking only because of how much of the lead those two mechanics give you for doing basically a regular things compentent League player should do. That's the only reason he is worth picking. Take away exp passive and dragon and you get a walking piece of shit. Wait, solo lane Mordekaiser is that right now, a walking piece of shit.
I don't buy that the exp bonus and ghost dragon aren't balanceable; I'm going to give Riot more time on that one. People seem really eager to give up on those but I'm not quite ready to yet.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-16T07:02:03.294+0000)
I don't buy that the exp bonus and ghost dragon aren't balanceable; I'm going to give Riot more time on that one. People seem really eager to give up on those but I'm not quite ready to yet.
It's not even about balancing those mechanics, it's more about how these abilities overreward player for regular things player has to do to win game at League. You are already getting gold for last hitting minions, why you should also gain more exp than your enemy doing exactly the same? Slaying dragon gives a whole team a global buff that is affecting stats of your team, a lot of times getting 5th dragon decides who wins the game. When you are Morde, you additionally gain very powerful pet under your command. This mechanic punishes enemy team for letting Morde's team get the dragon even more! As I said, basically, Morde's team can get 2 objectives instead of one in nearly every case: not only dragon, but also turret. While everybody has level 4-6. That is why this rework is bad, it works only because it gives Morde free stuff for doing nothing extraordinary.
[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-16T07:45:50.223+0000)
It's not even about balancing those mechanics, it's more about how these abilities overreward player for regular things player has to do to win game at League. You are already getting gold for last hitting minions, why you should also gain more exp than your enemy doing exactly the same? Slaying dragon gives a whole team a global buff that is affecting stats of your team, a lot of times getting 5th dragon decides who wins the game. When you are Morde, you additionally gain very powerful pet under your command. This mechanic punishes enemy team for letting Morde's team get the dragon even more! As I said, basically, Morde's team can get 2 objectives instead of one in nearly every case: not only dragon, but also turret. While everybody has level 4-6. That is why this rework is bad, it works only because it gives Morde free stuff for doing nothing extraordinary.
You get dragon because morde cant siege for shit without it. Late game morde is awful, you have no way to dive, no dashes, you have no way to initiate, you cannot poke, you cannot siege unless your team helps you, or you have a pet dragon.
So.... late game Morde is Darius/Garen? Then maybe they shouldn't tack on extra things to make him a replacement for adc...?
Not every champion should be able to siege.
By this Logic, Nasus is OP because he gets stacks for farming, something he's already supposed to do. And Draven is OP because he gets adoration stacks for CSing and catching axes, something he's already supposed to do. That argument doesn't mean anything. Yes, Morde gets rewarded with more exp for CSing in a duo lane because he's a melee champion CSing in a duo lane. He gets a powerful sieging tool with his pet dragon because his siege is nonexistent whenever he doesn't have it. Nasus gets extra permanent damage on his Q every time he uses it to CS as compensation for his extremely weak early game and underloaded kit. Gangplank gets extra gold for farming with his Q to help offset the fact that his builds are extremely expensive. There is literally nothing different about those 2 examples when compared to Morde who also gets extra stuff for doing what he's supposed to do. Riot balances champions like that all the time; I don't know why it's suddenly an issue just because it's Morde.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=000300000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-16T08:31:18.847+0000)
By this Logic, Nasus is OP because he gets stacks for farming, something he's already supposed to do. And Draven is OP because he gets adoration stacks for CSing and catching axes, something he's already supposed to do. That argument doesn't mean anything. Yes, Morde gets rewarded with more exp for CSing in a duo lane because he's a melee champion CSing in a duo lane. He gets a powerful sieging tool with his pet dragon because his siege is nonexistent whenever he doesn't have it. Nasus gets extra permanent damage on his Q every time he uses it to CS as compensation for his extremely weak early game and underloaded kit. Gangplank gets extra gold for farming with his Q to help offset the fact that his builds are extremely expensive. There is literally nothing different about those 2 examples when compared to Morde who also gets extra stuff for doing what he's supposed to do. Riot balances champions like that all the time; I don't know why it's suddenly an issue just because it's Morde.
You can easily bully Nasus out of lane so he can't get his stacks, also, it takes Nasus a lot of time to see the effects of all this stacking. Just play Vlad or Gnar and you will make Nasus's live a hell. Same with Gankplank, same with Draven, you are able to shove them off the lane so they don't get the stacks. But Morde? Try to bully Morde + Alistar out of lane: pretty much impossible. Mordekaiser's shield passive and heal form W pretty much guarantees that you won't be bullied out of lane. Add to that a support with Relic shield and you have even better sustain. Add Alistar and the whole thing is just ridiculous. And Morde sees the effect of such farming in less than 10 minutes: after 10 minutes, Morde already outlevels his opponents. How much time Nasus needs to two shot turrets? Draven looses his stacks upon dying. Gankplank can be bullied out of lane in early stage of the game. But against Morde, you cannot do nearly anything. He will outlevel you in the matter of few minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvDL4cNdM
Not about LOL, but the concept is the same. When people shut up the company gets away with everything, but if they make enough noise good things happen.
I saw people like you defending the deus ex preorder pyramid scheme, they too said, "Shut up" "They wont change anything" "You are all stupid". Guess what happened? Deus ex preorder pyramid scheme was pulled from the market because of the negativity it received.
So instead of trying to shut us up because you kiss Riots ass, shut up and watch.
Morde rework = Extortion. Riot went to all this work to rework the champion and pissed off so many of their fans just to make more money. Why didn't I think of that before? Spend a bunch of time and money to piss off your fanbase = make more money. Why didn't I see it before? Thank you for opening my eyes!
Your guy's Riot hate doesn't even make sense anymore. Riot is reworking Morde because they're greedy? The fact that Riot is sticking to their guns despite the non-stop whining shows a lot of artistic integrity. Reworking an unpopular champion = Unethical business practices. Get real.
PS. Took you Morde whiners long enough to get here. Don't worry, you'll all stop caring about this a couple months from now and go back to complaining about Riven and Lee Sin. In the meantime, I'll enjoy watching the shitshow. Stay strong Riot; Don't give in to these babies and bring back Jokekaiser.
Im sorry, but do you read what you are replying to? Where have i in my post even talk about extortion or money? I used the video as an example of why people shouldnt be silent.
I havent teven talked about greed and unethical business practises.
I used the video about silence and hy people shouldnt be silent. I used the video to illustrate a concept.
Also, at least us "whiners" have arguments, at least we are talking. You cant even read what was written, which is sad.
"I saw people like you defending the deus ex preorder pyramid scheme". That's basically equating the Morde rework to a unethical cash grab. Riot isn't going to make money off of this whole situation. They're going to lose it. A lot. Giving in and changing Morde back would be the right solution from a financial standpoint. So decide: Is Riot a bunch of sellouts who will do whatever makes them the most money or not? Because I see people say that a lot. And yet, constantly going through and sticking with unpopular decisions with 0 potential to make money seem to contradict that idea just a tiny bit.
No it isnt. Using an example isnt equating anything. It was an example of people which defend companies no matter what. My whole post wasnt in any way about money.
Please, before going on your crusade to defend Riot, at least learn to read properly. My original post did not equate anything, it just gave examples of what happens when people actaully fight bad decisions. It did not talk about the money, it talked about the community and its voice that can be heard.
If i would think that you are smarter i would call your attempts to change the original subject as a red herring, but seeing your posts i do not think you would even know what a red herring is.
I will repeat again, in case your attention span again, wont last long enough for you to read this all. My original and further posts did not talk about money. They didnt equate anything to anything. They only gave examples of what can hapen if a community is united and is making noise.
The only person which talks about money and tries to straw man me, is you. Using these fallacies wont work on me, i have debated too much and can recognize them.
If you don't want to give the impression that you're equating the 2, give a better example. Because that's generally what people intend when they give examples; they want to draw a parallel between the 2 situations. Riot's rework of Morde is nothing like a cash grab and the fact that you chose to bring it up in this thread is strange to me. I like the new Morde and so do lots of other people. I'm not convinced that he's the unbalanceable mess that the community is convinced he is or that he's even particularly unbalanced at this very moment. There's no unity here, just an appearance of unity. Not everyone hates the Morde rework just like everyone doesn't hate Lee Sin and want to see him gutted. Not everyone hates the idea Chroma packs for RP. Not everyone see's the evolution of more complex kits over time as an inherent problem. Not everyone see's the ubiquity of flash as a bad thing. Not everyone here thinks Riot is a terrible company. I can see where that impression comes from since people who have something to complain about are naturally the ones who go to places where you can complain about things.
I'm not just reflexively defending Riot here. I have my own list of complaints about them and their game just like everyone else does. The Morde rework is just not on that list, and none are any of the other juggernaughts. The juggernaughts reworks, new items, and the Morde rework in particular are, imo, among the best things Riot has done for this game and I'm tired of watching people say that Riot is killing their game when they're really breathing new life into it. Look at the competetive scene right now: Champion diversity and strategic diversity are at an all time high. The jungle as a whole is the most balanced it's ever been, ranged and melee champs are both equally viable in top lane, mages and assassins have finally reached a semblace of equality (you can thank the rise of tanks and juggernaughts for much of this). The only major imbalance atm is the massive advantage that late game adcs have due to how adc itemization currently stacks up, which Riot is working on. League is overall the best it's been since I started playing nearly 2 years ago and I have no idea what people are talking about when they say League is dying or getting worse every day or shit like that.
EIther you are trolling, or just stupid, i cant decide. I will try to explain it for the last time.
I used the example of deus ex as an example of what happens when a COMMUNITY MAKES NOISE AGAINST BAD DECISIONS! Got it? It was not about the money and it was not about the whole preorder thing. The example was to show that IT IS NOT USELESS TO MAKE NOISE AND CREATE THREADS, as you are saying. It was to show that IF THERE IS ENOUGH NOISE FROM THE COMMUNITY THINGS CAN BE REVERTED.
Did you get that? Or do i need to repeat it over and over again. The example just took 1 PART from the whole deus ex shitstorm. Money is not even remotely related.
You arent convinced. But most of the boards and even the pros are convinced that hes an unbalanced mess. This is not an evolution, look at what happened with ashe, with sion, THATS an evolution, THESE reworks were perfect. Why? Because they retained a champions identity and werent forced into a certain lane for no reason while giving unfair tools to win.
Mordekaiser is losing his identity as a champ, his kit is not almost nothing like it was before. The only reason why he succeds and dominates bot lane is because of the unfair exp and dragon advantage he receives for just existing. He cant be played on solo lanes anymore. But according to you this is all good.
[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-17T05:52:47.421+0000)
EIther you are trolling, or just stupid, i cant decide. I will try to explain it for the last time.
Thank God, your endless Riot bashing is really tiresome. I love New Morde. I think the rework is great and I would hate if they reverted him back to the joke champion he was before. I'm not the only one who has this opinion; I see tons of posts expressing similar sentiments that get downvoted to oblivion by the roaming downvote squad you guys have going on. Yes, Morde can't be played in solo lanes anymore. Yes, that is a good thing. Solo lane Morde was a toxic, unbalanceable piece of garbage that was either terrible of suffocatingly oppressive. He's spent most of recent memory on the terrible end of balance; That doesn't mean solo lane Morde was balanced, it just means he was weak enough that people didn't care about his braindead, no interaction playstyle. Poppy isn't played that much either but that doesn't make her kit any less of a toxic piece of garbage.
Riot isn't going to revert the Morde rework, nor should they. Old Morde was barely ever played and was either oppressive or worthless when he was played and was a perfect candidate to be the first bot lane melee carry. The fact that everyone suddenly became a Morde main and loved old Morde so, so much changes nothing. Riot has shown that non-adcs can be viable bot lane which is a positive step for this game and I look forward to when Riot releases the first bot lane carry mage. I really hope Riot doesn't cave and that they keep Morde the way he is; Many of you don't even care about Morde anyway. You just want to feel like you're sticking it to Riot. How else am I supposed to explain the numerous Morde "Mains" who haven't ever played a single game of Morde?
Thats it, im done. I can see that you arent even reading what i write and instead keep red herring and strawmaning me like it is out of style.
Until you reply to my comment directly without red herrings or srawmans you will get ignored.
And this is an example of how to reply directly to the points made.
You arent convinced. But most of the boards and even the pros are convinced that hes an unbalanced mess. This is not an evolution, look at what happened with ashe, with sion, THATS an evolution, THESE reworks were perfect. Why? Because they retained a champions identity and werent forced into a certain lane for no reason while giving unfair tools to win.
I disagree with you because of these reasons...
X reason.
Y reason.
This is how you reply to points made with proper refutations. Until you learn this, ignored. Good luck. I have quite high tolerance, but when a person you are arguing against uses so many fallacies that you want to vomit.......
[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-17T08:02:09.194+0000)
Thats it, im done. I can see that you arent even reading what i write and instead keep red herring and strawmaning me like it is out of style.
Until you reply to my comment directly without red herrings or srawmans you will get ignored.
And again, thank Jesus. Every interaction I've ever had with you on these boards has been unpleasant in 1 way or another. "Wah, Vayne so OP! Wah, Thresh is so OP that he could do 0 damage and still be one of the best supports in the game! Wah, Morde is completely broken and his rework is a disservice to anyone who's ever even thought about Morde (people like me who disagree are just morons)!"
You're easily the biggest anti-Riot crusader I've seen on these forums and I stand by what I said about you a long time ago; Your mentality about balance is like that of a silver player and your willingness to blame champions for your failures is astounding. Thresh could do no damage and still be top tier? Give me a fucking break. You're a diamond player, you know how the lane would play out if Thresh did no damage. So please, stop responding to my posts; I'd like to converse with someone who doesn't have such a throbbing Riot/CertainlyT hate boner.
I won't stop asking, I won't stop spamming, I'll just stop playing. From now to the end of this game, Morde threads will always be on the front page.
I'm with you until we at least get Riot to say "live with it, no changes inc for few years"
Don't worry, only half of the community claims "I was a Morde main before the rework"
Just like suddenly half of the community was magically a Veigar main after his rework
same for Sona....
Bring on the 2039751034567957 Poppy mains after that rework
It's funny, I've found 3 Morde "mains" on these boards viciously defending old Morde and saying new Morde is terrible. I then look on their accounts and see they haven't played a single ranked game of Morde ever, old or new Morde. Some Morde mains; they love him so much that they never even play him.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-16T03:59:53.869+0000)
It's funny, I've found 3 Morde "mains" on these boards viciously defending old Morde and saying new Morde is terrible. I then look on their accounts and see they haven't played a single ranked game of Morde ever, old or new Morde. Some Morde mains; they love him so much that they never even play him.
Have you ever played something so much that you don't feel a need to play it every day anymore? Do you ever get so tired of winning the same way you just want to play something else? No, I didn't really use Morde to climb the ranked ladder, but I devoted pretty much all of season 3 (When I started playing) and much of season 4 to him, as well as a bit of season 5. Just because I didn't play him in ranked doesn't mean I didn't main him.
As for your original topic, I accept that riot isn't going to revert this rework, and I fervently hope that in the years to come, his kit will be reworked again, as this iteration has toxic mechanics in it that make it pretty much unbalance-able, forcing it to either be obscenely strong (The point where it hasn't been nerfed enough yet) or pathetically weak (The point where it has been nerfed enough so that it isn't overpowered anymore, but is too weak to justify picking it competitively)
I'm not talking about people like you. I'm talking about people that have literally never played the champion that they're complaining that Riot has ruined. I looked up a guy, self proclaimed Morde Main who loved old Morde and hates new Morde. Been playing ranked since season 2 and not a single Morde game. Not 1. I don't care about Morde much at all and I still found time to play 6 ranked games with him the past 2 seasons. These guys have literally never played him and just jumping on the bandwagon to hate Riot.
[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u0MJGs7O,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-16T04:30:39.752+0000)
I'm not talking about people like you. I'm talking about people that have literally never played the champion that they're complaining that Riot has ruined. I looked up a guy, self proclaimed Morde Main who loved old Morde and hates new Morde. Been playing ranked since season 2 and not a single Morde game. Not 1. I don't care about Morde much at all and I still found time to play 6 ranked games with him the past 2 seasons. These guys have literally never played him and just jumping on the bandwagon to hate Riot.
They shouldn't hate Riot for trying to change Morde for the better. They can abhor his new kit all they want, but the only person I really resent at the end of the day on this is CertainlyT. On a proclaimed "Mordekaiser Feedback thread" for the rework, not a single post of negative feedback, legitimate or otherwise, was addressed. Those who cared about the changes were completely ignored when they felt alienated by them. We tried to reach out to him, to get him to try and work with us on this, but the harsh reality that we were met with is that our input didn't actually matter. The PBE is just for testing bugs, I suppose.
The PBE is just for testing bugs, I suppose.
You ment for checking out new skins, didn't you? Because if it was for testing bugs,
release wouldn't be such a pandemony of bugs and glitches.
But it's not just CertainlyT. It's the people who keep green lighting his work. At some point we have to assume that CT is allowed these things because RIOT wishes it to be.
I don't have any downvotes to give. Have some upvotes.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/698/412/f5a.gif
its good to take breaks from your main but having below 100 games on them is pitiful.
Sadly, Riot seems to be intent on creating more and more anti-fun aspects of this game... not talking about Mordekaiser here though.
Revert? No
Redo? Probably
He could work with some kit changes other than a revert, true. But why in the name of God did they have to continue spitting in faces of all those people who loved Morde for his character, not kit - as a Master of Metal, the guy who will rip you to shreds with razor-sharp metal shards or cave in your skull with metallic echoes and lightning? Why did they have to change him into a generic death knight type of character who uses the same homogenized green farts as every other SI champion?
yea, considering the amount of backlash they were able to ignore when they announced the retcon... they won´t stop until the very last people caring about their universe settles somewhere else. Just such a shame, they could have had a great brand, but they settle for just another CS.
Upvote for truth. Upvote for re rework
Yeah. Like Fizz rework. Oh wait...