The reason some people hate the tank meta.

Slamurai Jack··135 votes·13,511 views

As we all know, we are now in a tank dominated meta, thanks mostly to the introduction of Cinderhulk. Lots of people aren't happy about it; they struggle in this new meta for 1 very specific reason: They don't know how to teamfight.

There's no qualifier to that statement; they blatantly don't know how to teamfight. Back during the burst meta of the last year, this wasn't really an issue since most teamfights were nothing more than an initiation and then each team fully diving the enemy adc. There's not a ton you need to know when every teamfight is just a straight rush for the enemy adc that only lasts 2-3 seconds. However, that simplistic of a strategy no longer works in the tank meta. If you try to dive past fatass tanks, you will just get kited, separated from your team, and destroyed. Afterwards, your now exposed squishies will get easily run over by the enemy tanks since you chose to dive and die rather than protect your dps.

This leads players of all roles to cry out "tanks OP", whether it's the Assassins or bruisers that just got kited and destroyed or the adcs or mages that just got run over. In my opinion, with the exception of Cinderhulk being too strong of a dueling item, tanks as a whole are quite balanced. They just require proper teamplay to deal with, which many players across all elo's blatantly do not know how to do. The number of games I've seen a team lose because they leave their adc to 1v1 the enemy Sion every teamfight is alarming. The amount of games where I seen a team lose because they try to dive past a Braum ,Annie , and Nunu to try and kill a Sivir is disturbing. I see so many players who's only teamfight strategy they understand is "dive the enemy adc", and this isn't exactly low elo. People still do this even in plat.

Today's game actually requires solid team strategy at the Solo Q level, which is a stark contrast to the "See which teams assassin or burst adc gets more fed" meta we had for most of season 4. You can't really 1v5 carry in a tank meta, and you can't just outplay everyones damage and mobility like you could before. And you can't just mindlessly dive in every teamfight and expect to win anymore just because you got the initiation; those tanks aren't going to kill themselves.

EDIT: Multiple people have commented that I've given no actual solutions for how to teamfight in the tank dominated meta. I mentioned my thoughts on that later in the thread but people don't seem to see it, so I will add it here.

"In my opinion, the optimal teamfight strategy nowadays is to lightly engage on the enemy front line; use enough CC to force them to turn and fight but not so much that you're left defenseless to enemy counterengage. Then, slowly push forward as a team of 5, whittling down enemy tanks, peeling and killing enemy threats that try to bypass your front line, and zoning out enemy squishies with the threat of hard CC and being collapsed on.

The key element to this entire strategy is twofold: Stay together as a team without breaking formation, and prioritize protecting and assisting teammates over chasing down and killing enemies. Obviously, if the enemy vayne were to moronically tumble past her front line into your hard CC range, go ahead and just dive and kill that bitch. But do not try to dive past enemy tanks to lockdown a carry unless you have absolutely 100% guaranteed follow-up that is enough to kill the priority target. Fully committing to a dive and not doing enough damage to kill or force the enemy dps out of the fight is almost always a guaranteed teamfight loss since you're now in horrible position without your cooldowns."

232 Comments

IcyPepper67 votes

People need to learn that it's okay to rely on your team in solo queue, it's okay to use teamwork.

500000000000000044 votes

Teamwork OP Pls nerf

Budupops13 votes

always trust the diamond smurfs

Nucleophilic atk6 votes

No, it really isn't.

Joquan12 votes

Wow, my one game proves tank meta doesn't exist.

If you're denying that tanks are better than Bruiser/Assassin junglers ATM (Vi with a cinderhulk is not a tank) you're stupid tbh

lB2kGRlc8y12 votes

The team without a tank lost, hmmm... not sure what this is supposed to prove?

r11na17 votes

Might help if you read the comment he was replying to.

lB2kGRlc8y5 votes

must have hit the wrong reply button, this was meant for the picture comment

AxlStream2 votes

Biggest mistake you can make actually. NEVER rely on your team in solo queue because we all know soloQ players are considered as useless meatbags until a certain point.

IcyPepper7 votes

Well when you play a squishy, it's typically wise to be behind the tank.

Can't really 1v5.

Only Play Darius2 votes

MasterYi Mordekaiser Volibear Nasus can 1v5 given the right circumstances.

IcyPepper12 votes

Eh, if you get fed or have the skillz, then no skin off my back.

I just don't believe in completely disregarding your team. You already have five enemies, why make four more on your own team?

pro crastinat0r52 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4vJwUnMg,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-05-04T18:41:08.034+0000) those tanks aren't going to kill themselves.

item 3075 but the adcs are

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA

g07h4xf0013 votes

[{quoted}](name=pro crastinat0r,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4vJwUnMg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-05-04T19:07:47.224+0000)

item 3075 but the adcs are

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA

This is why you run AP mages in mid lane (not fucking AD champions).

pro crastinat0r3 votes

who said anything about mid?

PoisonedPeace10 votes

He's making the point that ADC's dont have to be the only tank killers.

LeeDark4 votes

AP mage: uses all spells Why is he still at 80% health!?!?!?!?

Anidan5 votes

I see someone isn't on the Malzahar Tank-Rape Train.

Auryiel10 votes

Actually THAT'S the one problem I have against tanks right now. Being able to kill AD carries while doing nothing more than walking towards them is quite honestly completely stupid. Although I believe Gromp's buff has been nerfed recently and with the BotRK buff this shouldn't be as much of an issue.

Other than that, tanks are fine.

p.s. I don't play AD carries.

FirstSergeantBim22 votes

The illustration you've provided is the same as player's accounts of a fed "champion name goes here" wrecking face and being OP and broken. The only way tanks are going to do that is if the ADC is under-leveled, gold starved and carrying zero defense runes, masteries or items.

If I'm Sion and I stack Magic Penetration, buy Cinderhulk, Thornmail and get Gromp Buff then I absolutely have the right to steamroll anyone who did not prepare for me. There are multiple ways to get enough MR to deal with all of that collateral damage while still maintaining respectable damage.

item 3139 item 3156 item 3026 item 3102 These are your friends, use them well.

LeeDark3 votes

{quoted}

If I'm Sion and I stack Magic Penetration, buy Cinderhulk, Thornmail and get Gromp Buff then I absolutely have the right to steamroll anyone who did not prepare for me. There are multiple ways to get enough MR to deal with all of that collateral damage while still maintaining respectable damage.

No, you don't. You do not have the right to kill people you aren't even doing anything about. If you are Sion, and you do all those things, and in the fight, you are completely focused on peeling the other tank, the ADC should not die to you if nobody else damages them. Under any circumstances. Passively killing someone by just not caring that they are even there is the very definition of anti-fun.

Ardond18 votes

quick question, why is the ADC hitting the sion with gromp buff and Thornmail? In addition, why do they not have some form of life steal to negate some of the damage? Honestly in this scenario the ADC just sounds bad and will die any way.

DeusVult8 votes

yet another case of "but i built full damage, no defenses and didn't change from the item 3006 item 3031 item 3072 item 3046 item 3035 core that I rush in every single game. ever"

If you are against a really beefy tank that is running magic pen and has AoE persistant magic damage, thornmail and gromp, then you shouldn't be 1v1ing him and thinking that you are going to survive.

Sir Yamazuki6 votes

[{quoted}](name=pro crastinat0r,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4vJwUnMg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-05-04T19:07:47.224+0000)

item 3075 but the adcs are

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAA

item 3102 or item 3139 or item 3026 and suddenly it becomes irrelevant in addition to life steal and penetration. The few times I've seen an adc die to thormail is only when it's built so early, which I almost never see at all, or the adc is refusing to build a defensive item sooner. Last time I got forced to adc I bought a BV as my 4th item due to Hec+Thornmail+Annie, never died after buying it.

ajwf25 votes

This is why you get Nautilus and THEN go full dive.

#Puns

Rinky Dinky20 votes

There's no qualifier to that statement; they blatantly don't know how to teamfight.

G fucking G end of thread

Wînter Fox13 votes

Option 1 - Fight Sion , do 2 damage an auto, and watch your health melt away from Cinderhulk and the enemy Jinx behind him.

Option 2 - Dive Jinx, get chained CC'ed, and watch her walk away with 50% HP while you explode spectacularly.

Option 3 - Dance around mid lane until one person does something dumb and gets caught out of position

Tank Meta so fun

_Edit: _ I love how I'm getting downvoted yet no one is attempting to correct me

It Hertz When IP17 votes

Because none of your "options" make any sense outside of Bronze. If you can't deal more than piddling damage to Sion, you suck as an ADC, who is the one who's SUPPOSED to be taking out enemy tanks. Dive an enemy team as anything but a tank and no shit, you'll get chain CCed. Option 3 is kind of a no shit, that's a general rule of warfare that's been around since the first caveman turned to his buddy and said "Hey, we should try working together to beat up those Neanderthals".

Also note that none of your options have anything to do with teamwork, it's all "how can I as a lone player take on an entire team".

Partholonian7 votes

Judging from his options, and the fact that he hates the tank meta, I think he's an assassin main.

In which case it's surprising that he doesn't consider

Option 4 - Flank, so you can reach Jinx WITHOUT walking straight through Sion first.

Also note that none of your options have anything to do with teamwork, it's all "how can I as a lone player take on an entire team".

More evidence of an assassin main. If you're not 1v5ing and winning, you're not having fun and the game is broken.

Audiomancy9 votes

Malzahar I love the tank meta.

RavenMagus5 votes

The only thing I hate about the tank meta is Thornmail. Trying to play ADC in a meta where you're facing 2-3 Thornmails in every game on huge tanks is an utter nightmare.

The buff to BORK adding more lifesteal was a huge help, though.

blubabby11 votes

I actually hope that ADC's start to get more threatened throughout the game to maybe force them to build anything that isn't IE/Satik Shiv/BotRK or BT/IE/GA.

Jeddy01711 votes

If you're facing 2-3 thornmails,then you clearly must be on an all AD team. Get some mages who can laugh at those thronmail tanks.

Auryiel3 votes

Mages...

Laugh at tanks...

Who build HP...

Wat

Mages are HORRIBLE at dealing with tanks, even with Liandry's (god this item is awful on all but like 3 mages). The best thing you can do as a mage versus a tank is either using your own tank to set up your own plays or make sure your AD carry lives.

Sinister Snail6 votes

{quoted}

Mages...

Laugh at tanks...

Who build HP...

Wat

Mages are HORRIBLE at dealing with tanks, even with Liandry's (god this item is awful on all but like 3 mages). The best thing you can do as a mage versus a tank is either using your own tank to set up your own plays or make sure your AD carry lives.

I main Velkoz item 3020 item 3151 item 3135, works pretty well for tanks. It's really his CC that makes that viable more so than his damage, though.

FirstSergeantBim4 votes

Not necessarily.

item 3075 is core for to my tank build. The only time I won't build Thornmail is if the enemy ADC is the only AD threat and they are so under-leveled and under-fed that they are no longer a threat. Such a cheap and easy way to shut down AD that it's that good. Especially if you are running stacking magic penetration.

Joquan5 votes

2-3 people with thornmail is a sign for those carry mages to do work Cassiopeia Malzahar Karthus Xerath

Cosnirak1 votes

Get Last Whisper and Bloodthirster. Or attack the other people. :p

RavenMagus1 votes

I wish it were that easy.

Even with Last Whisper and Bloodthirster I take tons of damage from the thornmail alone; it easily outpaces Bloodthirster lifesteal.

And I can't attack other people. If I ignore the tank they punch me in the face twice and I die.

Anrui1 votes

Exactly. People say, "Why are you attacking the tank?!"

Uhm..because the tank is on top of me/in my face and killing me and no one is peeling...

Cosnirak2 votes

That doesn't make hitting the tank correct. Usually it makes just running away (if you actually have a chance of living) correct. Sometimes you run. Sometimes you hit the tank so someone else can finish them off even if you die. Sometimes you just eat the tank's damage while blowing up the enemy carry and hope your team does the rest. Someone being in your face does not force you to attack them though.

Cosnirak2 votes

That's exaggeration. If you have both and the only damage you're taking is Thornmail you won't die. If you're taking damage from other things then that's another issue.

Also clearly hitting the tank with Thornmail isn't keeping you alive if you're dieing anyways, what good is hitting the tank for a little damage? Why not hit their carries and gain life while helping your team win the fight even if you die? Also not hitting the tank =/= ignoring the tank. You can kite them without auto attacking them (unless maybe you're Kalista).

Mandang03 votes

While I agree that the problem is mostly cinderhulk, I also think Riot's choice to load tank kits w/ %enemy HP damage was unwise and possibly imbalanced.

g07h4xf0011 votes

{quoted}

While I agree that the problem is mostly cinderhulk, I also think Riot's choice to load tank kits w/ %enemy HP damage was unwise and possibly imbalanced.

The only thing %HP damage does for tank kits is make them easier in fighting OTHER TANKS. Against squishy enemies, the damage is about the same as if it were flat damage.

Partholonian4 votes

It's not true damage though, so against nontanks it just does low damage (but threatens them anyway because they have low health), and against tanks it looks like it would deal high damage but it's reduced to low damage once the enemy tank builds MR (because tanks generally don't build any significant amount of penetration).

LilxPaprika2 votes

how does this translate to high elo, competitive level tho? if they know how to fight there. what does the tank meta signify there? and is it healthy.

Slamurai Jack17 votes

{quoted}

how does this translate to high elo, competitive level tho? if they know how to fight there. what does the tank meta signify there? and is it healthy.

What it means is that, with a tank meta, teamfights are now much longer, which makes uncoordinated and poorly executed diving strategies very very weak. And when I say dive, I mean ignoring the enemy front line and trying to burst down the enemy squshies before they can push you back. This simply isn't possible in the tank meta if the enemy team actually teamfights properly.

In my opinion, the optimal teamfight strategy nowadays is to lightly engage on the enemy front line; use enough CC to force them to turn and fight but not so much that you're left defenseless to enemy counterengage. Then, slowly push forward as a team of 5, whittling down enemy tanks, peeling and killing enemy threats that try to bypass your front line, and zoning out enemy squishies with the threat of hard CC and being collapsed on.

The key element to this entire strategy is twofold: Stay together as a team without breaking formation, and prioritize protecting and assisting teammates over chasing down and killing enemies. Obviously, if the enemy vayne were to moronically tumble past her front line into your hard CC range, go ahead and just dive and kill that bitch. But do not try to dive past enemy tanks to lockdown a carry unless you have absolutely 100% guaranteed follow-up that is enough to kill the priority target. Fully committing to a dive and not doing enough damage to kill or force the enemy dps out of the fight is almost always a guaranteed teamfight loss since you're now in horrible position without your cooldowns.

Cosnirak9 votes

The fact that so few have any idea about how all this works or how to do it keeps making me so sad. I'm sick of hearing how I'm not participating in a fight from my team mates because I was kiting while they dove and died. I hit them, I cced them. I just didn't walk into a meat grinder like my team... Poke adcs and kite mages should be amazing in this meta. Instead when I play them my team is like "why didn't you fight?! noob!" while I'm like "uh, 3v5, I'm sqishy, and I threw what I could at max range cause I'm not stupid" and they just threaten to report me.

Perhaps even worse though is that so many players think 'tank meta' means all tanks are overpowered and every team needs 2-3 of them. You really don't need a single tank if you understand how team comps work and play them right. But.... people don't. :(

NineTailedMystic8 votes

I got bitched at by a Jax once for not going in to kill the adc as Ahri...against a Cho and a Naut. Yeah lemme just go ahead and go untargetable like I'm Zed...

Rinky Dinky14 votes

Honestly, in higher play, tanks just became viable. They aren't shoving out other champions. Bruisers are still played. Assassins are still played.

Tanks being viable just made the game balanced. All they need to do is nerf some of the damage on cinder (Which is being done on pbe), because bruisers can pick it up and do just as much damage as with warrior.

Skirmishers is also being nerfed, so rip toplane smite.

More from Gameplay

More by Slamurai Jack