How do you win against teams with superior wave clear?

Hallbuster··1 votes·1,409 views

My 9-in-a-row win streak has finally come to end. All because of one issue, enemies with good wave clear and in this case Kayle and Gankplank.

Every time we pushed our minion waves to their turrets, gangplank would lay down his barrel and kayle would use righteous fury to lay waste to them. We had no way to tank the turret shots without the right champion in our composition and ended up losing the game after they secured Baron. So what should I have done, or done better?

9 Comments

SSJ CARROT2 votes

If you are confident enough, you can try a 1-3-1, two people in side lanes..and 3 in mid. Although its hard to pull off since you need correct defensive wards to make sure you dont get engaged on, but it works well. Baron is another.. you can bait at baron for a fight..or take baron and it makes 1-3-1 extremely easy.

Last avatarname1 votes

The only way to win against a team with superior wave clear is to.

  1. win against them in laning phase
  2. get baron
  3. get at least one wave clear champ in your team
Eedat1 votes

Baron.

Even a Baron bait to get them out from their turrets

draecina1 votes

Just kill them all and they won't be able to wave clear xd

Hallbuster1 votes

Updated some of the details, yeah, I guess baron was our best bet after we aced them.

LostFr0st1 votes

With that in mind, try re-watching the game with FoW on (so you get only your team's vision). You'll likely find more stuff out.

Aptest1 votes

As a core principle, what you want to do is force them to move around the map and either find their turrets un-defended because you are there first, or find some of the defenders separated from the group in the middle of the transition from defending one tower to defending another, and kill those people. After which, you dive the rest of their team under the tower you want to take.

You have a number of options for doing this. you can move inside their jungle as a group (ward a lot and delete their wards) between a side lane and mid lane and keep the lanes pushed. you keep switching between towers until they fail in doing their rotation properly.

Alternatively you put a winning lane alone in the side lane and the rest of you in mid either doing 4-1 or 1-3-1 (two winning lanes). Or the rest of you are hiding in their jungle. From there they must make a choice as to which tower to defend. Again you can move into their jungle and catch them in-rotation.

Additionally you can threaten to take neutral objectives and trap them as they rush to defend them. Or you can just hide in their jungle and get a pick on them when they come for their buffs.

Once you win a fight it is important to snowball the objective. If they are defending a tower with only 2-3 champions and you have your entire group, or even just 4 people you dive the defenders, kill them and take the tower. If you are still healthy enough you can attempt the same with the next tower, sometimes opponents can't adjust to this kind of aggression and end up not having enough defenders tower after tower until they lose everything.

A fall back option is to take baron and push with the baron minions which are harder to clear. Or buy one of the sieging items (BOC / ZZrot) and have that chip the tower down.

If you choose to get baron, remember that killing the enemy team and taking towers and then if they defend with just 2-3 diving them and taking the next tower is superior to getting the baron (because you can go back to baron later and get it). So it's important to understand that you are peeling and killing the contesting champions.

PlsCheckThisBush1 votes

TL;DR: Pick champions that will force them to fight when YOUR team wants to, grab an ultra-strong split-pusher, or nab/bait Baron and siege items to get them off the turret or you will never siege them.

Kayle is super short ranged even with her E up, so try to abuse that. Gangplank's Barrels make things a little bit tricky at the later stages of the game when he has them up almost 100% of the time being able to 1-shot a wave with ease, however if he gets to that point you're likely looking at a rough teamfight down the line anyways.

If you're stuck without waveclear and they have someone like, say, Viktor, you'll have to be clever about it. You'll likely need the Baron Buff to prevent them from one-shotting your wave, or something like a Banner of Command/Zz'Rot Portal to amplify your sieging ability or negate their anti-siege. Also, as others have said, split them up! If you top laner is a beefcake (Maokai, Nautilus, etc.) you'll want to have them tanking the tower for you. If they're a split-pusher (Fiora, Tryndamere, etc.) have them go to a side lane with their Teleport up (if they have it) and split-push until no towers remain. If they are capable of winning a 1v1, the enemy team is required to send 2 or more to deal with them, leaving you with an extreme numbers advantage in a teamfight and giving you the ability to siege or capitalize on objectives around the map to amplify your siege.

Your ADC will play a vital role in this if you don't have someone like Ziggs who can take towers with ease. Make sure to help keep them alive and healthy/safe to push the towers for you. If your ADC is too scared to get in there and take a few chip shots at the tower, you'll have to play around that and move with them.

If the enemy team is composed of something like Xerath, Gangplank, Cho'Gath, Brand, and Caitlyn, it's going to be rough to actually siege on them without having them insta-clear waves and stay safe behind their lines. You either have to poke them out or pick a VASTLY superior team comp in champion select to win a teamfight or clearing towers will only be a dream.

For team comps against super wave-clearing champions, look into hard engage. You want something that says: "Hey, we're fighting NOW, no more of this bullshit hiding behind your tower clearing waves." Maokai/Nautilus/Malphite essentially guarantee one or more targets are going to have a bad time, and with a few items can safely tank the towers for MANY hits while your team fights the enemy or sieges. It's always rough playing against a team that can lock you down from extreme range, so you'll likely have to play around your Ultimates/Summoner's Spells to effectively siege - just make sure not to overextend for too long and get picked off when disengaging, as they will be quick to turn the siege around on you!

Hallbuster1 votes

The 2 comments above me have really helped. I will definitely remember this next game.

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