Lately I've been hearing that Mages are the next to get the update treatment over on the PBE. I'm just wondering when exactly can we expect it to come out? I'm curious as to exactly what champs are getting updated (I heard that it's mostly going to be the Immoble mages to get updates), and I'm curious if we're also going to be getting some new AP items to go with these changes. Riot Response is appreciated!
RiotMeddler45 votesMages, immobile ones especially, are probably the class we'll look at next. That'll be a while off though, preseason's currently our biggest priority and then there's also some disruption during the holiday period in December. I'd imagine a PBE date 2-3 months into 2016's the sort of timeframe we might be looking at, that's very much a guess though and depends on how many champions we end up tackling at once (small batch could come slightly earlier, broader changes like with Marksmen would be much later).
In terms of AP items that's not something we've talked about much yet. I'd imagine we'd look at itemization if doing mages of course, almost certainly a much smaller set of changes than those to marksmen/general AD itemization though (AP's in a better starting point, especially after the 5.13 changes).
DwarvenGiant9 votesWho are your personal candidates for a immobile mages class update?
There are a lot that could use some work, such as 
, 
, 
, 
, maybe 
...
-_-
Also, what do you think about Annie, Fiddles and Galio?
Shadowkirby146 votesI think 
and 
need some attention as well.
For Fiddlesticks, he's needs some major rework on his kit and visuals with new lore, not Sion-level but more like Gangplank-level.
Aych Pii5 votesLissandra? I think she's fine. Really clearly defined strategic niche, satisfying gameplay, and really high potential power when played effectively.
FantasySniper2 votesYet she's still overshadowed by mages that are more devoted to their damage output.
Quadradactyl9 votesPersonally Vel'koz is just fine. He has his niche and does good damage. Doesn't really need any changes.
ElysMustache4 votesWho are your personal candidates for a immobile mages class update? There are a lot that could use some work, such as
ULTRAF0RCE7 votesWould champions such as xerath, ziggs and Lux be looked at?
Stephenizgod16 votesThanks for the update :) I am very much looking forward to the immobile mage changes. In my opinion these are several mages that need to be looked at: 
and possibly 
.
Brand is a good example of an immobiole mage: he has power, combos, Teamfight, and CC. The reason i think he needs to be looked at though is because of his combos, i feel like they could be explored a bit more so their is more choice and less spamming. This is something ive thought about for awhile.
Anivia has a really interesting playstyle pre-6 in my opinion, hit them with Q+E for Damage, gotta use Q effectively its her only hard CC, the Wall is an awesome ability with a lot of potential. Then she hits 6 and her playstyle becomes a little more binary as her ult becomes the focus of everything she does. Im not saying this is bad or she becomes boring but i wish her ult augmented her playstyle rather than become her playstyle. I don't play her often though so my opinion on the matter is probably not reliable.
Malzahar is a very unique mage, i'd say he only needs help staying unique and powerful. His point-click Suppress is a lot of the reason people don't want him strong and i understand that, but they only need to try playing him against a competent opponent who knows how to deal with his kit to see that Malz isnt as strong as people think. Plus he is becoming more and more of a niche pick, only viable against certain champions, although currently a lot of those champs are meta right now.
Annie is toxic. Ridiculously strong, with an instant AoE nuke stun. Her kit is too easy and too strong, it doesn't take much time to learn how to stack your passive without alerting your enemy which eliminates counterplay. She needs to be toned down, her passive needs to be reworked or at least its interaction with her Ult.
Ziggs, he seems pretty feast or famine, he is either stomping or feeding it seems. I don't play him nor see him all that often but when i do thats the feeling i get.
Sorry for the long comment, I just like talking about things that interest me, the Immobiole Mages interest me.
EDIT: There is a bit of misunderstanding on what i meant in my comment. I am only speaking from my personal experience, so the champs i've mentioned and the issues i have are personal. If i didn't mention a champ its because i don't have any experience with them and don't know anything about their place in the game and whether they need work or not. I am also not talking about whether they are too strong or too weak, except Annie who i think is too strong, these are more issues i have with their gameplay or their core identities. Hopefully that clears up a lot of the misunderstandings.
La Bello4 votesZiggs is pretty fine imo
his niche is that he can deal EXTREME damage to towers(faster than Tristana). Go play a Ziggs game and get Lich Bane and watch the towers explode.he also excels at stopping minion pushes as youve seen time and time again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjTHpuV2XZM
here is a crappy video i recorded a while back (try to ignore the audio lol).
Funny thing is this wasnt even on PBE so he will actually be STRONGER come next patch.
BakedLotion1 votes[{quoted}](name=Nicole Watterson,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tvkA4lci,comment-id=000400030000,timestamp=2015-11-29T21:49:05.415+0000)
Ziggs is pretty fine imo
his niche is that he can deal EXTREME damage to towers(faster than Tristana). Go play a Ziggs game and get Lich Bane and watch the towers explode.he also excels at stopping minion pushes as youve seen time and time again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjTHpuV2XZM
here is a crappy video i recorded a while back (try to ignore the audio lol).
Funny thing is this wasnt even on PBE so he will actually be STRONGER come next patch.
an ekko can nuke 3/4th of a turrets hp with one E auto.
Aych Pii6 votesNot unless you feed him pretty hard
iamleburk5 votesNo swain? Also lux is a little annoying, could be worked on. And i would love if they finished what they started on Cassiopia and Veigar. I dont think Anivia, brand, or Ziggs need that much work, probably equivalent to Miss Fortune level of slight changes that just make the champion more healthy for the game. Also idk if you would include vlad into that but i would say he should be a focus on it, Ryze could be argued too
Solidair31 votesI doubt they would look at Swain. He is already unique among his peers. He's the only real mage tank (focused around healing). He excels at duels but has poor wave clear.
He's a champ with clearly defined weaknesses and strengths. Champs that have those things are generally not focused on with these group changes.
Jungle Lux God6 votesI beg to differ about Swain.
Swain has a lot that makes him unique from other mages, but there is so much potential lost with his kit. His entire theme is based around being a general and a master strategist, but his kit doesn't reflect that because most of his kit isn't based around strategic positioning the way a strategist of his caliber would do.
In particular, his E doesn't seem to be that interesting because it's a single-target spell that makes everything else he does stronger. I'm not sure about other Swain players but I think that ability could be replaced for something that's both more interesting and better captures Swain's tactical genius.
what you deserve8 votesLux is perfect as she is, leave alone please
iamleburk4 votesCmon you have to admit, she can use a little tuning. She's a "I want to play Xerath but Xerath is banned" atm
EDIT: Did everyone just get wooshed? My point is they are too similar. Like Graves and Lucian.
Supreme Senpai6910 votesPeople ban Xerath?
HeadHonchkrow2 votesIn the depths of bronze, I guess
iamleburk2 votesthe point is they are too similar. Riot has been pushing for more diverse champions
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesBut she's better than xerath....
iamleburk2 votesAgain, the point is they fill the same niche. That is a legitimate reason to rework someone.
Ceramic Rabbit5 votesI think lux kit is a little boring because it's too much of a land one skill and then blow everything on that guy :/
FantasySniper2 votesThe most interesting thing about her is the "no one is safe" semi-global.
iamleburk5 votesShe also shares her "niche" with like 3 other chaampions.
uTUNE2 votesAlthough I can see why some people complain about the current state of Lux, I'd have to agree that Lux doesn't need the changes, some minor tuning at most if anything. I used to think otherwise until I saw a friend of mine playing her so beautifully that I think her identity is really solid as it is right now. For any major changes they give her, they might as well leave her alone and just make a new champ.
Melondrama14 votes ??????
ShinyVulpix5 votesThe redid her plant ai but as someone who mained her it didn't really change anything. I hope they are planning on some big changes for her since that didn't pan out much.
MelanLady5 votesYeah, she needs some work. Very least her plants need fixing. Change them so that champions gain attack priority when in range rather than her having to land a successful auto on them. It makes the plants so weak that the enemy can walk out of range then walk back in and kill them in 2-3 autos. Make them have to choose: take some damage to get rid of the plants or be zoned away from an area. Her passive is trash as well. People new to her don't realise what it is and sit there half the time until it expires or shoot it randomly, and usually the enemy can move out of range by the time the cast time is over. She just needs her plants ai tweaked and a new passive. Perhaps every so often she gets an empowered seed that when transformed has greater range or slow depending on the plant type. Maybe extra speed in bushes or just something.
Melondrama4 votesHer passive has a .5 second delay before you can even cast it on top of the actual cast time. Many champions can actually walk out of range of it before you even have the chance to shoot it. The biggest reason I hate her passive is not because it's hard to land, but because of how little use you can get out of death passives in general. Sion's is okay I guess and Karthus' Death Defied is amazing because with his short range and squishiness he's bound to die in a team fight and staying in the fight while being untargetable ensures that he can cast requiem uninterrupted. However, Zyra has long range and has nothing in her kit that would make dying a plus for her. In many situations you can't even finish off a target even if you hit your passive and if you have a perfect game then you just don't have a passive that game. I can't think of a passive more situational than hers.
enra0slein23 votesyou forgot karthus, zyra (yorick?)
Effly2 votesThe other two I agree with for various reasons, but Karthus since his rework is very powerful, imo at least. He's just not popular.
Screwbot Factory8 votesKarthus has never had a rework for the last four years.
Changeling2 votesAnivia is not Toxic, Yasuo is, not Anivia.
Anivia is easily shut down if you play an aggressive champion like Fizz, Ahri or Ziggs even.
So please stop complaining about Anivia.
Spaceman5pff2 votesNobody said anivia was toxic lol
Poske3 votesMages, immobile ones especially, are probably the class we'll look at next. That'll be a while off though, preseason's currently our biggest priority and then there's also some disruption during the holiday period in December. I'd imagine a PBE date 2-3 months into 2016's the sort of timeframe we might be looking at, that's very much a guess though and depends on how many champions we end up tackling at once (small batch could come slightly earlier, broader changes like with Marksmen would be much later).
In terms of AP items that's not something we've talked about much yet. I'd imagine we'd look at itemization if doing mages of course, almost certainly a much smaller set of changes than those to marksmen/general AD itemization though (AP's in a better starting point, especially after the 5.13 changes).
**The ones that lack identity **
Also for a combo heavy AOE mage he has just few core combos (Compared to le bl for example If you are master withle bl then you know she has atleast 30 core combos while brand has like what ? 7-8 core combos That doesnt make him combo mage?)
**So he should definetly be the one who needs some love ** 2. Malzahar - what is he a lockdown mage with toxic scallings ???? Definetly needs some love personaly i would like him to be more pet reliant tricky etc
Midlane Velkoz he overlaps a bit with malzahar and syndra.. give him unique input
Zyra well she became a support over years what else to say
Swain. Reduce dmg increase tankyiness. He should be IDGAF eat my crows while i am between all of you mage
The ones that do have identity
Syndra has identity she is aoe mage with singletargeted burst + pick of stun
Anivia has identity as a anti juggernaut champion according to lcs atleast. She is quite tanky mage which excells vs low mobility champions (Not saying she is bad vs high mobility champions as she can stop their jumps mid air with w)
Xerath is the poke mage - so definetly identity there
Ziggs is a poke/zone mage with some waveclear unique enough though he is in weak spot (Yes he does have some mobility so i am not sure if you count him)
Annie is one of the best engage champions in the game. Whether it is toxic you should honestly keep it because it is the only reason this noob friendly champion is valuable in high elo. She could use some tweaks but not a rework
Cassiopeia ehm she is kite-hypercarry
Lux is utility mage with ranged burst (Doesnt overlap with xerath because once she hits you with one spell you die, unlike xerath who pokes you continualy and the tries to kill you with r + she has shield)
Orianna teamfight scalling utility mage
Viktor ehm kite control mage which can be played defensive early because of shield
Donger. Overpowerd in low elo because of easy farming but weak in high elo because its hard to farm with him on high elo level. Thats his issue he does have identity though as Zone + fast at taking objectives mage
Stars Shaper4 votesAll I want to know is if 
is on the list and, in case, why and what to expect.
Nagma1 votespls just do touch gameplay pls ; she is fine pls pls pls
Ionian2 votesSo 
will just get ignored I guess
YordlePunch1 votesDoes she really need big changes though?
Ionian2 votesThe latest changes to AP items + masteries and the buffing of the class she's supposed to counter (ADC) made her a very mediocre champion. Currently she has one of worst early games of any champion, literally the only advantage she can have over other mids at levels 1-5 is ranged autoattacks. And even then, most mages are ranged too, so she has nothing. Mana pots and flask were removed so that destroyed her laning even more. If she was melee she would have THE worst early in the game. She is meant to scale into the midgame and get some powerspikes through items, but everything she builds had its cost increased (except abyssal, lel), and it's season 6 so games end in 15-20 mins. She doesn't have time to scale. Maybe she was too strong in season 5 and now she's actually balanced (doubt it tho), or I'm just extremely biased (but I do play other mages and assassins), but I just feel she suddenly became extremely weak. Yeah she's a safe pick, hard to kill, but going 0/0 won't carry any games, and her snowball potential is very lacking too.
Meep Man2 votesIf there is anything that should be looked at, it should be the Mages who currently overly rely on 
such as Kennen, Fiddlesticks, and such as well.
ViciousRoZe3 votesDon't forget about Vel'koz and make Zyra a viable mid laner again she isn't supposed to be a support. Also give Lissandra a new passive you promised long time ago
LaughingStapler2 votesMages, immobile ones especially, are probably the class we'll look at next. That'll be a while off though, preseason's currently our biggest priority and then there's also some disruption during the holiday period in December. I'd imagine a PBE date 2-3 months into 2016's the sort of timeframe we might be looking at, that's very much a guess though and depends on how many champions we end up tackling at once (small batch could come slightly earlier, broader changes like with Marksmen would be much later).
In terms of AP items that's not something we've talked about much yet. I'd imagine we'd look at itemization if doing mages of course, almost certainly a much smaller set of changes than those to marksmen/general AD itemization though (AP's in a better starting point, especially after the 5.13 changes).
I hope this includes Kog. The changes to his ult. basically kill the poke style many of us AP Kog mains enjoyed. Moreover, an on-hit build is way too slow for mid and also doesn't fulfill the role's requirements. If a mid laner lacks significant CC, they need great waveclear and poke. Kog's lane is more punishing than ever but even if you get your items, the team rarely has enough peel/CC to allow it to be effective. Burst, waveclear and poke are what mid-lane is supposed to contribute if you want to win.
The old Kog variant was not only stronger in lane but provided better burst and poke while also scaling way better as a reward. This allowed him to contribute to the team somewhat safely barring engages and gave windows to come back too. Now, if you have to get into 710 range for 6 seconds with no hard CC, no defense and only mediocre damage output, all of Kog's weaknesses are amplified 100 fold. However, due to the nerfs to his ult.'s damage >50% HP (as well as increased cost and duration until mana reset), you are forced to use W a lot more even in AP builds just so you're not completely useless. This makes mid-lane extremely unforgiving and his early was weak even before the rework. If you have to play such an unsafe style with him for a meaningful contribution, W needs to scale way better with AP or have a higher base damage.
No one really asked for a Kog rework and we weren't asked for feedback regarding its direction. It's not fair to change him so drastically that one of his favorite lanes actually becomes uncompetitive in ranked. I've played hundreds of AP Kog games and he's my favorite champion.
There are many other Kog threads with suggestions. We'd like some direction and all our favorite lanes to be viable. Although, I will say that the changes to W probably make Kog JG nearly viable and that's something I've tried a lot before the rework with pretty unimpressive results.
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7g8eEjfA-dont-fix-something-thats-not-broken http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/txlGL51M-so-meddler-said-koggy-is-the-sustained-damage-centerpiece-adc?show=flat http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yAOq9HeA-lets-congratulate-the-new-adc-with-the-lowest-winrate-and-a-way-forward
SeveredKidsFeet8 votes
BOUND BUT NOT BROKEN
Hello I am Bird5 votesFar, FAR from broken.
Luminum7 votes
Powerofdenait5 votesThe most inmobile champ who need an update is 
, at the moment he cant jungle and it was one of the first junglers but ... ok, all the new champ has any kind of CC that can counter him, and the new Ap jungle item is usless for him
