Why was Karma left out of the Mage Update?

Fikule·Feb 6, 2016·2 votes·907 views

She always feels pretty underwhelming right now.

A few points to consider:

She needs mid money to achieve her support role. Is she a mid or support?
Her shield speed doesn't scale with AP. Again, mid or support?
Her Tether max range matches the break range, can she not have a little leeway here?
When played as a mid she scales badly against tankier targets late game and remains a squishy killer. She isn't an assassin. Maybe her tether could do % damage (or highest of a base/%)?
Her mantra can't be deactivated. Can this be altered so it's not a use it or lose it, similar to heimer?
Her mantra'd W seems gimmicky and conflicting. It heals % based on missing hp a champion that can't build tanky due to needing masses of AP. It also increases the snare, but not by enough to justify giving up a larger shield or Q compared to the non-ulted snare.

20 Comments

SukishooFeb 6, 20163 votes

Mage update is for IMMOBILE type mages, Karma is far from Immobile.

KarbuncleFeb 6, 20163 votes

Having the weakest speed buff in the game does not make her far from mobile,and she wouldn't even need the speed buff if her ranges weren't garbage.

SukishooFeb 6, 20162 votes

If you think her range is bad then you don't know how to position right.

SilverSquidFeb 6, 20163 votes

She will be left out, because they focus on "traditional mages", which have sustained damage or pick potential. Karma, in their view, counts as "support mage" similar to Orianna and Morgana. I am in favour of them adressing her though. See more of it here.

Champions don't have to be either. Riot is happy with champions working in multiple roles.
Think of her more like Lux and Orianna, whose utility doesn't scale with AP either.
Tether range: 675. Break range: 1000. This is less than 1s of movement by most champions. If you start casting W at max range (0.5s) and then follow up with Q (0.25s), the tether will nearly instantly break if the enemey continued to move away from you.
Her counter to tanks is, that she makes her allies very resilent and kites well. Making her good against tanks further waters down what she is good against.
Good point, actually.
Yeah, RW is a mess. It was better with the bonus damage, instead of the bonus root. But then 5.10 happened.

FikuleFeb 6, 20161 votes

I kinda feel like if she could get 2 charges on her mantra again, it would solve a lot of the issues (W would still be weird).

I also miss the Tether being usable on allies as a supportive speed buff (and triggering on enemies walking through it). Obviously it couldn't do that now, but it could have an allied effect as well as an enemy effect. That way she has 2 abilities for enemies and 2 for allies.

SilverSquidFeb 6, 20161 votes

Funny that you mention that. I played around with that in another thread of mine: click me I asked myself what needs to change to get Karma back her 2 charges, bait passive and ally tether (and ally AoE heal with RQ and shieldbomb RE...). Let me know if that is what you imagined.

KarbuncleFeb 6, 20161 votes

Actually when it lists 675-1000 range on her tether they are 2 different ranges 675 for default W and 1000 for R+W doesn't help that her speed buff only lasts 1.5 seconds and casting Q(which stops her movement) only has a 25% slow(which is countered by many things) for 1.5 which is incredibly weak compared to every other slow in the game.

SilverSquidFeb 6, 20162 votes

Actually when it lists 675-1000 range on her tether they are 2 different ranges 675 for default W and 1000 for R+W

https://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-08/6/17/enhanced/webdr02/enhanced-16485-1407362155-3.jpg

You have played Karma before, right?

OverpoweredSoapFeb 6, 20161 votes

She's considered a supportive mage (Orianna, Syndra-ish. etc) and thus left out of the update.

Meddler said supportive mages are something they might look at a later time.

MiraweaveFeb 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She's considered a supportive mage (Orianna, Syndra-ish. etc) and thus left out of the update.

Meddler said supportive mages are something they might look at a later time.

Oh yeah Synrda is a supportive mage. Just like how DFG was a supportive item.

OverpoweredSoapFeb 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Oh yeah Synrda is a supportive mage. Just like how DFG was a supportive item.

She's considered a supportive mage because of her ability to slow, stun and knock back enemies.

That's not to say she is completely a support mage, elements of her are.

SilverSquidFeb 6, 20161 votes

I mean, Syndra is as support-ish as Zyra. And Zyra is getting her touchup. That being said, Syndra will very likely get some changes, at least to her passive.

So that's already two Mage-Support champions getting changes, who have more CC than Karma. I mean, at least they are immobile...

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

AezanthyaFeb 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

She's considered a supportive mage because of her ability to slow, stun and knock back enemies.

That's not to say she is completely a support mage, elements of her are.

lol you realise this argument is absurd ?

Cassio has an aoe slow, an aoe stun.

Zyra has an aoe root and aoe knock up.

OverpoweredSoapFeb 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mega Minun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tvRA8ny6,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-02-06T18:32:56.170+0000)

lol you realise this argument is absurd ?

Cassio has an aoe slow, an aoe stun.

Zyra has an aoe root and aoe knock up.

Using Cass was a decent argument towards what I was saying.

Zyra is a terrible counter argument considering she is actually played as a support and is even used for disengage in that role and even when she's played mid.

AezanthyaFeb 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Using Cass was a decent argument towards what I was saying.

Zyra is a terrible counter argument considering she is actually played as a support and is even used for disengage in that role and even when she's played mid.

Yup but that's the point.

People are saying karma is a support/utility mage so that's why she's not included.... meanwhile Zyra is all the same and is included in the mage update aswell as cassio.

OverpoweredSoapFeb 6, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mega Minun,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tvRA8ny6,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-06T20:01:37.504+0000)

Yup but that's the point.

People are saying karma is a support/utility mage so that's why she's not included.... meanwhile Zyra is all the same and is included in the mage update aswell as cassio.

What we consider them doesn't matter then, I guess.

Riot considers her a supportive mage and that's basically what she's designed to do.

I'm guessing Zyra and Cass were complained about for a long time so they just put them in there.

I'd personally argue that Riot wants nothing to do with Karma at this point because she's such a hard topic to deal with, it's practically impossible find a half way point with her community.

AezanthyaFeb 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What we consider them doesn't matter then, I guess.

Riot considers her a supportive mage and that's basically what she's designed to do.

I'm guessing Zyra and Cass were complained about for a long time so they just put them in there.

I'd personally argue that Riot wants nothing to do with Karma at this point because she's such a hard topic to deal with, it's practically impossible find a half way point with her community.

Yeah, I think that's why.

All they really need to do tho is give her 2 mantra charges and an "on ally" effect for her W. I dunno, they could do so much things like : Karma links herself to her ally, sharing the damage they take or "karma links herself to an ally, X% of the damage she deals heal her ally".

Moulin RougeFeb 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

She's considered a supportive mage (Orianna, Syndra-ish. etc) and thus left out of the update.

Meddler said supportive mages are something they might look at a later time.

In that case they'd leave out Zyra and yet she's in queue.