Reason why tanks are so strong right now

The Deckowner · 2016-04-24T10:41:29.409Z

mages sucks in the meta right now(mostly because of items), tanks usually just build a spirit visage as their only magic resist item and mages cant do any meaningful dmg to the tank. this means tanks can opt more into armor which defenses them against ad assasins and adc who are stronger in the meta right now. all the changes making game time shorter means adc(the only counter to tanks) will less likely to reach their 5~6item scaling and will need to buy LW very early(3~4th item), meaning less dmg threat for tanks. grasp of undying broken mastery+ all of the juggernaut item protentially giving tanks enough dmg to threat the backline carry jungler + azir/corki/zed/lb mid means less cc to peel. mid~short ranged carries in the meta meaning less safety and easy to get rekt by tanks anything else?

The Deckowner·Apr 24, 2016·36 votes·3,234 views

mages sucks in the meta right now(mostly because of items), tanks usually just build a spirit visage as their only magic resist item and mages cant do any meaningful dmg to the tank. this means tanks can opt more into armor which defenses them against ad assasins and adc who are stronger in the meta right now.
all the changes making game time shorter means adc(the only counter to tanks) will less likely to reach their 5~~6item scaling and will need to buy LW very early(3~~4th item), meaning less dmg threat for tanks.
grasp of undying broken mastery+ all of the juggernaut item protentially giving tanks enough dmg to threat the backline
carry jungler + azir/corki/zed/lb mid means less cc to peel.
mid~short ranged carries in the meta meaning less safety and easy to get rekt by tanks

anything else?

38 Comments

Sahn UzalApr 24, 20169 votes

1 This is absolutely true. 2 Propably. It's a factor at the very least. 3 Grasp has been nerfed, I don't think it's broken anymore, but that's my opinion. Tanks don't really build the juggernaut items so I don't think that is a problem.. I could be wrong though? 4 If this is true toplane tanks will be even stronger next patch, I mean, Early game junglers such as Nidalee and Elise will be SO strong next patch with Dragons being important to contest. 5 Ehh IDK. These are the FoTM adc's and they tend to do well VS tanks

Graves is strong, but his insane lifesteal makes him a strong anti-tank Kindred deals %HP damage and will kill tanks easily Kalista will kite tanks to death Lucian basically the same, he has a lot of mobility Sivir actually provides a huge boost to tanks by allowing them to run in there, tanks tend to be kiteable once they used their engage (Think Malph R, Sion R etc) Tanks can propably kill her though Caitlyn Long ranged traps for zoning (broken AF IMO) Corki Hybrid damage (hard to itemise against) and mobility Ezreal Usually builds BoTRK in his blue build, has a TON of kiting potential (blue build atleast) Jhin Long ranged and has %health damage on 4th shot, he's propably one of the easier FoTM adc's for tanks hto Kog'Maw Shreds health, duh

Jinx, Ashe, Varus and MF are ADC's that will get shit on by ADC's but they are not in the best of spots RN -_- Also, everything is pretty strong RN, exept bruisers and mages (there are some strong mages tho) ADC's are strong RN, and I do not think I need to explain why Assassins are strong. Zed Fizz Zed Leblanc Zed Nidalee Khazix Zed MasterYi Zed Rengar Zed Ekko Zed Katarina Are all strong RN :^P Mages are not in the best of spots, but Azir Lux Ryze are strong right now though... Supports: There are some strong tank supports but Thresh Janna Soraka Nami Lulu Bard are also good So I think it's safe to say #This Is Not A Tank Meta Just wanted to get that off my chest

PÿröApr 24, 20162 votes

Agreed. In short, Tanky builds are OP right now due to OP's points, but there are also other very strong champs in other classes bc Riot is controlling the meta pretty tightly.

nfzetaApr 24, 20162 votes

I have to agree, so many people saying its a tank meta because some people have problems with tanks but the real problem recently has been bruisers and dmg dealers building tanky items and still doing ridiculous amounts of dmg. Basically it was what i would call a dmg meta, where you can build a few dmg items (sometimes only 2 on certain champions) and a bunch of tank items and still do really good dmg, ekko and the adcs a while back attest to this. Its why things like tank fizz and split push heimer are so damn annoying, its why graves is so strong. However with all this dmg floating around it does mean tanks do more even when building full tank (was in part thanks to the now nerfed grasp of the undying)

The thing is with all these dmg dealers and bruisers building tanky, they can bully some other bruisers and squishy champions but against true tanks they can't do much, especially since a lot of the heavy tanks have either high base numbers or hp damage (along with grasp).

Also as the OP said, with how much dmg is floating around the adcs have a harder time of getting to their dmg spikes and actually dealing dmg to the tanks and with so many people playing lower cc champions there is very little to stop tanks once they get going.

tru3nox2Apr 25, 20161 votes

Katarina is only strong in bronze, Ekko is tank, Khazix gets rekt by other tanks, Rengar is useless right now.

I don't wanna talk about Zed because he has too many haters (most of them bronzes) so I won't say anything about him.

Sahn UzalApr 25, 20161 votes

You know how Scarra used to be a kata one trick..? :P I was talking about AP Ekko. And how he recently got buffed (when tank build ekko got nerfed) Kha'Zix doesn't care if he gets rekt by tanks, his job is not to kill tanks. it's to kill carries. Yi and Fizz are propably the only assassins on that list that can kill a tank without any struggles. (assuming the tank is atleast not behind) Rengar useless? Go and watch some Nightblue3 buddy

tru3nox2Apr 25, 20161 votes

Well, keep thinking those champions are good and cry about elo hell, not gonna argue with bronzes.

tainteddazeApr 24, 20168 votes

This entire split has been the ADC god meta. Why do you think almost every pro game is 4+ adcs in it. Look at the finals teams were running kindred none stop or jungle graves none stop cause the meta fits AD type champions so well. I just hope the mage rework actually brings some balance back to the mage side. Mages are pretty much supports at this point that deal ehh damage and really only their to cc for the ADC god.

Why I've just been playing jungle most of this split I find it very boring to play mid atm, due to how enemy can just pick corki and click on a minion then go make some tea for the next 5mins cause the game is playing for itself. Then when he comes back he has 2 kills cause he actually doesn't need to use anything other then the games pre-programmed AA that automatically work without the player doing anything.

This has been the worst split to watch in general and play mages in that there has been. It really is a shame that riot would even consider making the split like it is. Just shows you the level of people that don't actually care for the game or it being a interesting experience to play. Honestly from what I have been seeing with the mage rework. I am not even sure if this is actually going to bring mages back to the lime light. No AD item nerfs or champion nerfs, while Ap items actually become worse in terms of ap and mana regen. From my perspective the only champions that might even be good will be the reworked mages. The rest will just fall behind cause riot doesn't seem to care.

Although if this prediction is wrong, which probably won't be. Then only thing that is going to happen is the new rework mages will be nerfed hardcore cause the ADC gods can't have any other champions actually posing a threat to them.

ProfDrDeathApr 24, 20167 votes

Caster ADCs and caster-build ADCs being stronger than more AA-focused ADCs, partially due to Essence Reaver's strength.

The DeckownerApr 24, 20166 votes

essence reaver really should be nerfed. like wtf free mana on crit free cdr when building crit and it has crit on its own? wow!

GunpointApr 24, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tsFfLQpw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-04-24T11:17:06.399+0000)

essence reaver really should be nerfed. like wtf free mana on crit free cdr when building crit and it has crit on its own? wow!

Ok, just because an item has a stat/passive doesn't mean that it's "free". It's what you are paying for when you spend gold on the item. Nobody would buy the item if it just had +65 AD + 20% Crit and nothing else.

ProfDrDeathApr 24, 20163 votes

You're right that ER could certainly stand to be toned down a peg. Maybe in the CdR department, lowering the value from 30% max to 20% max?

But said effects being free? They hardly are. In choosing ER over IE, you making a choice to favor a spell-centric playstyle over the pure DPS increase IE offers.

bill84Apr 24, 20161 votes

Or you just get both and have both.

BlitzidiousApr 24, 20161 votes

Both are big investment items, if you opt for both, you're delaying other useful items, in addition to making you easier to punish for attempting to farm for said big investment items. It's a good idea if you're ahead or your a good Draven, but otherwise, it's not the most solid of plans.

Crowe StalkerApr 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Supawaffle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tsFfLQpw,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-24T20:11:28.125+0000)

It's a good idea if you're ahead or your a good Draven, but otherwise, it's not the most solid of plans.

Jhin Graves Lucian You've clearly never played any of these if you think only Draven is good with item 3031 item 3508 combo.

BlitzidiousApr 25, 20161 votes

I never said anything along the lines that Draven was the only champion that is good with the combo. I was implying that as long as he can farm efficiently and get kills, he'll be able to afford both. I wasn't implying anything along the lines of Draven being the only champion that can properly utilize both items, but I can see how you thought I did.

Troll for TrumpApr 24, 20161 votes

KogMaw except this guy. Fuq dis guy.

LankPantsApr 24, 20164 votes

Some tanks are just utterly disgusting as champs. Ekko, Maokai and Poppy (at least on last patch) are not OK. As much as I hear people complain about tanks it seems to be the same 5 or 6 champs all the time. I'd err towards saying it's just these champs, I don't see the majority of tanks dominating right now, in fact the majority are struggling a lot.

What people are doing with tanks right now is the equivalent of saying Graves, Kindred, Corki and Lucian are utterly busted, therefore so is the whole ADC class.

The DeckownerApr 24, 20162 votes

tanks usually have high base dmg, which means they are strong early game and can abuse the short game time

LankPantsApr 24, 20163 votes

No not really, that's assassins. Ekko has disgusting base damages even after his nerfs, Sion does not, hell even someone like Poppy really doesn't.

Most tanks who have high damage are either time apathetic or they're actually late game damage threats. Amumu, Sej, Shen, Maokai. None of these champs have high early damage. Maybe Naut is the major exception to this, but most tanks aren't.

Sure, most of these champs have high base damages, the exception being Sej who has scalings but their damage tends to push them towards late game. Take Maokai for example, he's a busted tank but he isn't an early game damage threat. His damage is spaced across all 4 of his active abilities which means he doesn't actually have access to all of his damage until lv 18.

The DeckownerApr 24, 20161 votes

what i mean is they tend to have some sort of %hp dmg and can do a decent amount of burst with a combo at lv6

poppy for example has 7% max hp dmg on her q

maokai has %hp dmg on his w

sion has %hp dmg on his w

amumu has %hp dmg on his w

sejuani has % hp dmg on her w

etc etc

magic poleApr 24, 20162 votes

You know, Ill pick Malzahar into a team of 3+ tanks because of his W. That and item 3151 item 3116 item 3135 are basically his core. He can get away without buying a mana or mana regen item (with careful mana management) because of his E.

However, while all mages can buy these items, the vast majority of them need some source of mana or mana regen first, item 3165 item 3027 item 3174 , or they just go oom too quickly.

By the time these mages can efficiently build the tank shredding items, it's deep into late game. Unfortunately most games nowadays are decided by early mid-mid game, so basically imo it takes far too much gold and too much time for most mages to be able to adequately combat tanks.

Meanwhile tanks can often dive recklessly after completing 1-2 items. Or no items Alistar , <- yeah, fuck this guy

The DeckownerApr 24, 20161 votes

RIP he is getting reworked no more aoe %hp dmg

magic poleApr 24, 20161 votes

nah, they just moved it to his ult. It was really only possible to keep one enemy in his old W anyway...the one you ulted.

So while overall you might do slightly less % max HP dmg with the switch of W to R, he still has it. You just might have to ult a tank

Vanic998Apr 24, 20162 votes

All the more reason to like the VELKOZ rework.

StrawberrycocoaApr 24, 20162 votes

Have tanks ever needed more than 1 MR item, though? All you really need is enough MR to survive burst then retaliate during cooldowns. You need a lot of armor because ADCs will hit you rapidly and unceasingly.

H 3Apr 24, 20161 votes

Also is titanic hydra really good on many popular tanks? Cause it outputs so much damage and has good burst if your stacked with lots of HP.

The DeckownerApr 24, 20161 votes

titanic hydra allows quick burst with the hp scaling passive+ higher hp scaling active aa reset

it also allows waveclear meaning tanks can split push easier.

LuciferApr 24, 20161 votes

This is a very accurate summary. Also with how fragile towers are, it's very easy for tanks to dive at the moment without feeling any real impact. Long death timers also naturally favor tanks, as they will be dead the least amount of time in a game statistically.

56552559_DELApr 24, 20161 votes

Actually I think it is because of how many health+dmg items there are that is making tanks harder to deal with.

There are a lot of items that combine high health/armor with dmg stats that scale incredibly well.

Of course a lot of that is due to more people using tanks that are primarily fighters with tank scaling like Garen, Darius, Fiora, Trundle etc. And with how well they scale in general in addition to those items they use, there is a reason why they snowball incredibly fast.

SpoofghoulApr 24, 20161 votes

yes its pretty accurate

except your first point, while its true that mages suck atm i never felt the need for more then 1 mr item unless vs dps mage like cassio/azir/ryze

SImply because my large healthpool plus a bit of mr pretty much made me unkillable by any mages combo, mages know this so they tend not to target the tank in the first place.

Tanks have always been good vs mages just saying.

and because tanks are tankiest in midgame and most games end midgame now so that is i think one of the biggest points. I dont even consider the grasp mastery op.

The DeckownerApr 24, 20162 votes

that is why azir is pick/ban in most lcs games He is the only mage who can do safe reliable dps

bill84Apr 24, 20161 votes

Just waiting for the mage update so that we can get a new tank into the action: Galio

Average BardApr 24, 20161 votes

Leave my squishies alone!!!

http://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lligf7RtlS1qe2udio1_500.gif

TotalJerkApr 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tsFfLQpw,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-24T10:41:29.409+0000)

tanks usually just build a spirit visage as their only magic resist item and mages cant do any meaningful dmg to the tank.

God damnit I have been complaining about this forever and I've been either ignored or downvoted. I hate this whole "shut down a mage's damage output entirely with one item" bullshit.

LevyathynApr 25, 20161 votes

You forgot how they shafted armor pen.

Baby GhoulApr 25, 20161 votes

Tanks naturally counter AP Burst damage. Mages never were the choice to take down tanks.

They never bought more than one MR item unless the team was heavily AP. Tanks build armor because they are weak to DPS which typically comes from ADCs.

AP Burst mages are supposed to take out the ones doing the DPS. It works like a little triangle of damage, or at least it's supposed to.

Tanks are just too good at everything right now. They absorb so much damage, can dive without any issues, and they do so much damage. There aren't that many trade offs for picking a tank, and that's why everyone wants them in their games.

I believe it is a combination of their items/stats being so good and towers being so weak. Armor penetration isn't as common or great as it once was either.

Tank power was necessary when the ADC meta was alive and assaulting us all for a brief period earlier this year, but now there are only a few hanging on. Jhin Graves KogMaw

None of them are really worth banning. "Tank" Fizz and "Tank" Ekko are specific problems that have to do with assassins and the old question of how much reliability can you give an assassin before they start to abuse it.

The answer is still none.