So the matchup's rewarding when you're able to dodge the charm, and she can't just press W and trade reasonably well even after missing her most important ability (her E). Basically make her more skill(shot)-reliant. Although I'd like number nerfs, I doubt the Ahri-loving community would tolerate any of those thoughts on these forums, so just please make her more difficult to play.
Wînter Fox6 votes"Ahri's way too safe! Let's put all of her damage on her long-range skillshots so she never has to go in."
yay nibbers4 votesAhri is already skillshot reliant. Most of her damage is in her Q (half of its damage is true damage) and her W is unreliable for trading as you have to put yourself right close to the opponent to make all three bolts hit them, and even then does less damage than Q. Her R, on the other hand, requires her to dive into your face to do damage and is inherently dangerous to use offensively.
Dodging the Charm is already rewarding in that it prevents her from freely and safely getting any damage off on you. It's already a very easy skillshot to avoid in lane. Taking away damage from her other abilities to put it into her Charm would make her do so little damage that people would just stop playing her all together. To conclude:
so just please make her more difficult to play.
She's already difficult enough. Her Q poke is easy enough to avoid and Charm is countered by minions. The only way Ahri can reliably hit her Charm is by dashing into danger with her Ult. If you really want to beat Ahri in lane, which really isn't hard, pick one of her several counters. Annie, Malzahar, Lux, Veigar, Swain, Xerath and Talon can all either shut down her mobility or punish her for getting too close. Yasuo as well can fight her pretty well for other reasons (situationally superior mobility, Wind Wall). Many other matchups are skill-based. Ahri isn't strong, and doesn't need any sort of weird rebalancing or nerfs. Fighting her is not at all hard unless the Ahri is clearly much more skilled.
MCBiggah993 votesHer numbers, the things that the people who play her say, so many things point otherwise it's just hard to believe the things you're saying at this point. Her problem isn't necessarily that she gets solo kill after solo kill (which definitely doesn't always happen), it's that she never dies. If your opponent doesn't make positional mistakes, you can still just safefarm 24/7 and R away whenever there's danger, it's very hard to force Ahri into that zone where it's do or most likely die.
Watch the SKT T1 vs FNC game where Febiven gets Ahri and Faker gets Cassio, that game might show the problem I'm talking about.
Also, If you have to rely on counterpicks to be able to outplay/kill a champion then there's already a big problem with that champion.
yay nibbers3 votesAhri's deal is that's she's so safe to play though. Not that that was ever the point in this thread, so way to go off topic. Anyway, yeah it can be annoying, but farm from impossible to deal with either. Get your jungler to show up every so often to scare her off some or more CS. Or you can shove your lane into her tower to make her lose CS. Or you can pick a champ with long range (like Ziggs or Xerath for example) to poke/chase her away from CS.
Counterpicking is a big part of the game, by the way. If anything, LCS matches show exactly that. It's how you take advantage of any specific champion's weaknesses. Because not every champ has everything in their kit and can't deal with every situation. That's baisc League of Legends knowledge. Not to mention I didn't at all say you must counterpick to beat her. Right after I mention counterpicking I mentioned how it's usually a skill matchup.
TyroneWatermelon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tpHUnZ3X,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-22T12:20:38.031+0000)
Ahri is already skillshot reliant. Most of her damage is in her Q (half of its damage is true damage) and her W is unreliable for trading as you have to put yourself right close to the opponent to make all three bolts hit them, and even then does less damage than Q. Her R, on the other hand, requires her to dive into your face to do damage and is inherently dangerous to use offensively.
Dodging the Charm is already rewarding in that it prevents her from freely and safely getting any damage off on you. It's already a very easy skillshot to avoid in lane. Taking away damage from her other abilities to put it into her Charm would make her do so little damage that people would just stop playing her all together. To conclude:
She's already difficult enough. Her Q poke is easy enough to avoid and Charm is countered by minions. The only way Ahri can reliably hit her Charm is by dashing into danger with her Ult. If you really want to beat Ahri in lane, which really isn't hard, pick one of her several counters. Annie, Malzahar, Lux, Veigar, Swain, Xerath and Talon can all either shut down her mobility or punish her for getting too close. Yasuo as well can fight her pretty well for other reasons (situationally superior mobility, Wind Wall). Many other matchups are skill-based. Ahri isn't strong, and doesn't need any sort of weird rebalancing or nerfs. Fighting her is not at all hard unless the Ahri is clearly much more skilled.
Charm is hard to dodge at close combat,its her 3rd escape since its rewarding to use defensivly. Q also an escape R also 3 dashes. Low cooldowns. Sustain. forgiving if missed Q. Brainless faceroll champ overall
Actually xPeke1 votesThat's with multiple champions
Lux? Q can be used to escape, W is a defensive ability and E can also be used to escape (slowing zopne) All of Ekko his abilities can be used to escape, even his passive. Anivia her Q, W, R Lissandra Q W R Morgana Q E R Zyra E, one of her plants slows, R
I agree they should rework her passive, her sustain is to strong, but other than that i think she's fine expect maybe a bit of Cooldown increase on her ult
yay nibbers1 votesCharm is more than easily avoided in every other situation. If she's in your face you should be punishing her for it anyway because she has to use her ultimate to get in your face.
Practically every champion is a "brainless faceroll" if you break them down like that and cherry pick. You leave out Ahri's caveats. Ahri has high mana costs so abusing her low cooldowns is costly, even with blue buff. Her sustain requires her to cast her Q or W at least three times before it's even up and then has to cast another spell to use it, not to mention it's been nerfed many times already. Her R, like many champions (all of them if I remember correctly), is her ultimate. It's supposed to be good and unique.
TyroneWatermelon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tpHUnZ3X,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2015-09-22T15:21:06.643+0000)
Ahri has high mana costs
LOL
Habitz2 votesJust no. Sure it's great you were able to dodge her easiest skillshot to dodge but she shouldn't be gutted just because of that.
MCBiggah992 votesGutted? Holy hell how do I make you Ahri players happy? Tiny number nerfs are bad, damage shifts are bad, any changes to Ahri are bad even though she's overtuned right now.
Habitz1 votesPutting whether or not she does any damage to you into one easily dodge-able spell isn't the way to do it. She's fine where she's at lol. Like any champ she has her strengths and weaknesses. Learn them.
If you're playing normals there is always a chance someone will pick a champ that you can't really control. If it's ranked and you see an Ahri you have the opportunity to pick accordingly.
MCBiggah991 votesShe isn't fine where she's at, she's overtuned. Her numbers, her win rate, her pick rate, every single statistic about her screams overtuned.
Habitz1 votesThis site doesn't say her win rate or pick rate is out of the ordinary: http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/champions/most-played. Do you have a better source?
As far as damage statistics I found this: http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/champions/damage-dealt.
Do you have a better source for that too?
MCBiggah991 voteshttp://champion.gg/champion/ahri here ya go
Habitz1 votesCool, I really like this site. From the "Overall Champion Matrix" I'm seeing that her damage, kills, and assists really aren't that far outside of the average. The extremes it does show for her are deaths and win rate.
I also see that her win rate for longer games is drastically lower. Her play rate has been decreasing steadily from the last few patches.
Yes I see that her win rate and play rate are high.
I don't see how this supports your want for damage nerfs though; just saying that matrix shows it's not that out of the ordinary.
Perhaps her R is more of the issue. Her ability to reposition and ability to engage on team fights with that might be the bigger problem. Her abilities are a lot like Xerath, but Xerath is immobile and in my opinion less fun because of that. I think fun goes a lot into pick rate.
As far as the win rate I think it comes more from the mobility that her r allows her. Personally I don't feel as though dashes should go through walls in jung. Hops yes, blinks yes, but you can't dash through tree or rock.
MCBiggah991 votesAye, her problem isn't necessarily that she gets solo kill after solo kill (which definitely doesn't always happen), it's that she very rarely dies. If your opponent doesn't make positional mistakes which you can exploit for free kills, you can still just safefarm 24/7 and R away whenever there's danger, it's very hard to force Ahri into that zone where it's do or most likely die.
Also, I dislike the part where (according to the winrate/amount of games played chart) her winrate is a few percentages above 50%, even if people are really inexperienced with her. Even if they aren't very good at Ahri, they know how to Q a wave and R away when they're in trouble, which is basically all you need to know to survive laning phase with Ahri.
Habitz2 votesPerhaps adding an interaction between her w and e would be good. Her w and the r missiles are her only incentive to get in close to enemies. I think her e should have a base charm time (a third of what it is now) that gets increased for each stack of fox fire on the enemy.
This way she has to spend time in close to get a full charm off (giving the opponents some counterplay time), she still has her assassinate potential by being able to land all foxfires easily on an isolated target, and she doesn't have a full benefit by always using r to stay max q or e distance from an enemy.
Maybe even try taking this to the extent that she needs a minimum number of foxfire stacks on an enemy to deal true damage with her q.
MCBiggah992 votesI actually really love this idea, suddenly Ahri isn't this champion who can miss charm after charm, and chunk you out of lane if she hits one out of ten charms, she needs to commit which decreases her current safety. Amazing idea, thanks man!
Aikki1 votesAs an Ahri main I'd be happiest if they rewerted her to the pre-DFG removal state with the damage amp on her E. Blowing up people was way more fun than poking them down, and she wasn't so idiot-proof as she is now when you don't really have to hit E.
TyroneWatermelon1 votesAs an Ahri main I'd be happiest if they rewerted her to the pre-DFG removal state with the damage amp on her E. Blowing up people was way more fun than poking them down, and she wasn't so idiot-proof as she is now when you don't really have to hit E.
shes the definition of easy mage.
qetzel1 votesThat was changed for a reason, though. I don't like the playstyle of E hits, you die, E misses, Ahri can't do much until the cooldown comes back up.
It isn't very fun to play against.
MCBiggah992 votesBut her current playstyle is E hits, you die, E misses, Ahri chunks you for some of your health either way. It's more annoying, if anything.
Actually xPeke1 votesSure ahri deals much damage, but all mages do lol
It's pretty easy to dodge the second half of Q and then back away so W can't hit you.
Actually xPeke1 votesblitzcrank cough
qetzel1 votesI don't like playing against him either.
CPU BIanc1 voteslets nerf ahri when we have champions like viktor running around
The Sword Saint1 votesYeah let's move all her damage to q so that she never has to spend mana on w so she has double the mana sustain and also waveclears twice as hard - especially lets not forget that your trading half of the magic dmg from w for true damage on a return q.
MCBiggah991 votesMainly her E Her E The hardest spell in her kit to hit The E
The Sword Saint1 votesIt's just a bad idea all around. I get that you don't like ahri because 'omg she's so safe even though she doesn't do a lot of damage', but for real now at least think a little bit about the consequences of what you suggest.
If you pull the damage from her ultimate to her basic abilities then she suddenly has far more damage in her basic non ultimate rotation then other champs and that's a problem, but hey at least her ult also has three dashes in it so the main purpose of the ult can be spared.
W has literally nothing going for it but damage - it's short range, you can't reliably control who it hits since it auto targets, it has a delay on start up, and it takes a few seconds for all three to ht even if they do hit the same target because they have to rotate around her model before they can lock on and fire. And it only does damage. If you take the damage from that and put it on q or e, you know have a champion who has ezriel's problem where they just max q and e and ult and don't ever put a point in w until they have no choice.
It also would make her far more mana efficient because she'd only be using 2 spells for a rotation and only ever needing to ult to escape and never for damage. Your genius 'shifting' idea would only make her have more lane sustain, reach power spikes faster from only leveling 2 spells, have higher basic ability damage from having ult damage added to the basic skills, and always have her ult up for escape because there's literally no reason to ever ult for damage.
MCBiggah991 votesYeah, you're right in a certain way, I'm not sure how to balance the current Ahri so I'm trying to come up with (usually bad) ideas. I like this one that someone else on this thread suggested, actually:
"Perhaps adding an interaction between her w and e would be good. Her w and the r missiles are her only incentive to get in close to enemies. I think her e should have a base charm time (a third of what it is now) that gets increased for each stack of fox fire on the enemy.
This way she has to spend time in close to get a full charm off (giving the opponents some counterplay time), she still has her assassinate potential by being able to land all foxfires easily on an isolated target, and she doesn't have a full benefit by always using r to stay max q or e distance from an enemy.
Maybe even try taking this to the extent that she needs a minimum number of foxfire stacks on an enemy to deal true damage with her q."
Habitz1 votesI commented on this pretty deep in the thread but what do y'all think?
"Perhaps adding an interaction between her w and e would be good. Her w and the r missiles are her only incentive to get in close to enemies. I think her e should have a base charm time (a third of what it is now) that gets increased for each stack of fox fire on the enemy.
This way she has to spend time in close to get a full charm off (giving the opponents some counterplay time), she still has her assassinate potential by being able to land all foxfires easily on an isolated target, and she doesn't have a full benefit by always using r to stay max q or e distance from an enemy.
Maybe even try taking this to the extent that she needs a minimum number of foxfire stacks on an enemy to deal true damage with her q."
Charmed by Ahri1 votesOR give Ahri mains/players, who love to charm, The option to play charm Ahri without losing damage into mid and late game by maxing it outright! So from a 50% scaling to 70%! Even if some Ahri players continue to max W second after Q, it wouldn't make a game breaking difference since she still wouldn't be able to kill much if she missed her E altogether. But if she does land it, all it would do is just add some damage to their combo. But for those Ahri players who decide to max E or even throw some points into it, they can get some satisfaction in doing so by feeling a bit stronger throughout the game since they chose not to max W second.