Am I the only one who thinks the first 5min of jg feel awful?

Señor Karthus·Nov 13, 2015·12 votes·1,389 views

Who thought a second item to combine with machete was a good idea? At first I thought was a nice alternative to machete for AP junglers and that any of them could upgrade on their own... but no... You want it and you want it. First or second. You have to buy it. You are Shen or Mundo or Trynda and you don't use mana? Must SUCK buddy. But you have to buy this shit and recall 2 times, wasting a lot of time, before you can use your smite on someone.

BLEH.

27 Comments

Asayake 5150glowNov 13, 20153 votes

...Didn't the jungle get nerfed or something?

Spicy RiceNov 13, 20151 votes

But so did the jungle starting item. I can barely do a half clear without neealy dying, running oom, or both.

DazedOnlookerNov 13, 20153 votes

I Havent played jungle since the recent patch but one thing i see in 9/10 of my games since the recent patch is this message within the first 5mins.

XinZhao "Wow this patch update for jungle items look sweet!"

5 Seconds later.....

XinZhao Executed (<- After we hard leashed him at gromp..and when he rotated for golems..well......EXECUTED)

My other games

Diana Executed

Graves Executed

JarvanIV Executed

My soul hurts for you junglers out there when i see this..

Asayake 5150glowNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I Havent played jungle since the recent patch but one thing i see in 9/10 of my games since the recent patch is this message within the first 5mins.

"Wow this patch update for jungle items look sweet!"

5 Seconds later.....

Executed (<- After we hard leashed him at gromp..and when he rotated for golems..well......EXECUTED)

My other games

Executed

Executed

Executed

My soul hurts for you junglers out there when i see this..

That's why I play strong junglers, or mid xD ( Aatrox , best jungler here but no one seems to have noticed. In the ol' days of season 2 or so, he could take red then go straight to blue without popping a single potion. No leash, as well. Xin shouldn't have a problem though...

Duke AnaxNov 13, 20151 votes

playing Aatrox as well, barely even noticd the jungle changes. I'm starting now with item 2043 item 2003 becasue I don't need the others.

Pink agaisnt counter jungling, one potion to top of before gank at three.

Zair UmbrasNov 14, 20151 votes

You could start without pots at all and go B for that fancy smite item instead on your first B. Just take Krug/Gromp, Red/Blue, then Wolves/Krugs or Raptors.

Asayake 5150glowNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I Havent played jungle since the recent patch but one thing i see in 9/10 of my games since the recent patch is this message within the first 5mins.

"Wow this patch update for jungle items look sweet!"

5 Seconds later.....

Executed (<- After we hard leashed him at gromp..and when he rotated for golems..well......EXECUTED)

My other games

Executed

Executed

Executed

My soul hurts for you junglers out there when i see this..

Hmm... I'll have to try jungling as Vi once I get to play... she had pretty good clear. Let's see how it is now.

Do you think it might have to do with the fact that the mastery Spiked Armor got removed?

Spicy RiceNov 13, 20151 votes

i actually don't even want to jungle anymore, just because of this. It hurts so much to jungle early game

EndlessSorcererNov 13, 20151 votes

How the heck does Xin Zhao get executed during a jungle clear? I had just played him last night and I finished a full clear without using any of my potions and ending near full health.

I had used Attack Speed Quints and Marks, ranked W at level 1, and took Hunter's Machete.

I killed the camps in the following order: Krugs (Smite), Raptors, Red Buff (Smite), Wolves, Blue Buff, Gromp.

I can't understand how they screwed up badly enough to get executed.

I can't really see Diana dying during her early clear either.

Attack Speed Marks, AP Quints, Armor Seals. Rank your abilities WQWE during the first four levels. Start Hunter's Talisman.

You should have no issues clearing, especially now that you have an extra potion.

Asayake 5150glowNov 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How the heck does Xin Zhao get executed during a jungle clear? I had just played him last night and I finished a full clear without using any of my potions and being near full health.

I had used Attack Speed Quints and Marks, ranked W at level 1, and took Hunter's Machete.

I killed the camps in the following order: Krugs (Smite), Raptors, Red Buff (Smite), Wolves, Blue Buff, Gromp.

I can't understand how they screwed up badly enough to get executed.

I can't really see Diana dying during her early clear either.

Attack Speed Marks, AP Quints, Armor Seals. Rank your abilities WQWE during the first four levels. Start Hunter's Talisman.

You should have no issues clearing, especially now that you have an extra potion.

Diana ~~has~~ had a relatively weak clear - her shield costs a lot of mana and scales on AP, and you're not gonna have a lot of that. Also, many people will go full AP quints on her (I'm stuck with my AD quints because they cost too much xD), which means your auto's are weaker, aka worse clear. Her passive isn't the most effective clear. Nocturne's is much stronger early (as well as that sustain), and her jungle really gets easier once you hit 6.

EndlessSorcererNov 14, 20152 votes

I just tested her clear in a custom game with no leash.

Rune: Attack Speed Marks, AP Quints, Flat Armor Seals, Scaling MR Glyphs Masteries: 12/18/0 (Runic Affinity, not Secret Stash. Merciless, not Meditiation) Starting Items: Hunter's Talisman, 3 Health Potions Jungle Path: Krugs (Smite), Raptors, Red Buff (Smite), Blue Buff, Wolves Skill Order: WQWE

I finished clearing every camp except for Gromp having used all of my potions and ending at ~220HP. I ran low on mana at a couple points, but I always had enough to use by abilities. I backed with enough gold to purchase Stalker's Blade, Skirmisher's Scimitar, or Tracker's Knife and either a potion or a vision ward.

If I had received a leash, I would have likely had enough health left to attempt Gromp. This was without taking Scuttle Crab for the healing (and the time to regen health).

Like I said, her clear isn't that bad. I don't really see her dying to a jungle camp unless she gets invaded or loses health fighting an enemy champion.

Also, her passive is actually pretty nice with the new Hunter's Talisman. You are constantly stealing health from every monster in the camp without any downtime waiting for ability cooldowns.

Asayake 5150glowNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I just tested her clear in a custom game with no leash.

Rune: Attack Speed Marks, AP Quints, Flat Armor Seals, Scaling MR Glyphs Masteries: 12/18/0 (Runic Affinity, not Secret Stash. Merciless, not Meditiation) Starting Items: Hunter's Talisman, 3 Health Potions Jungle Path: Krugs (Smite), Raptors, Red Buff (Smite), Blue Buff, Wolves Skill Order: WQWE

I finished clearing every camp except for Gromp having used all of my potions and ending at ~220HP. I ran low on mana at a couple points, but I always had enough to use by abilities. I backed with enough gold to purchase Stalker's Blade, Skirmisher's Scimitar, or Tracker's Knife and either a potion or a vision ward.

If I had received a leash, I would have likely had enough health left to attempt Gromp. This was without taking Scuttle Crab for the healing (and the time to regen health).

Like I said, her clear isn't that bad. I don't really see her dying to a jungle camp unless she gets invaded or loses health fighting an enemy champion.

Also, her passive is actually pretty nice with the new Hunter's Talisman. You are constantly stealing health from every monster in the camp without any downtime waiting for ability cooldowns.

Sounds stronger than my clear before xD. I personally have no experience, but I've heard others say stuff xD

EndlessSorcererNov 14, 20151 votes

Do you know if they started with 3 Health Potions or a refillable potion? That's a 250 HP difference in sustain.

They may have not saved the Red Buff for their second smite either. It heals you for a significant amount early game and the stun from Krugs reduces the damage you take.

Asayake 5150glowNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Do you know if they started with 3 Health Potions or a refillable potion? That's a 250 HP difference in sustain.

They may have not saved the Red Buff for their second smite either. It heals you for a significant amount early game and the stun from Krugs reduces the damage you take.

Hmm... with weak early junglers I generally avoid Raptors. They're a little too tough (more damage than red or blue). My usual path is Krugs (Smite), Red, Wolves (Smite), Rift Scuttle, Blue, recall. Mostly you want to smite Krugs or Gromp in the early game, then Raptors/Wolves in mid-late.

EndlessSorcererNov 14, 20151 votes

It highly depends on the junglers. Champions who can quickly AoE the little raptors (Diana, Amumu, Rammus, Master Yi, Shyvana) can do them very easily.

As Rammus, you can Powerball in the middle of them and they will all die to your Defensive Ball Curl without you having to do anything else.

As Diana, they will die to your first or second passive proc after W and Q hit them.

Even if you don't have the AoE, you still mitigate a lot of damage if you immediately kill the little Raptors. Xin Zhao can kill them in the duration of his W, Nocturne weakens them with Q and Passive before hitting them, etc.

GunpointNov 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I Havent played jungle since the recent patch but one thing i see in 9/10 of my games since the recent patch is this message within the first 5mins.

"Wow this patch update for jungle items look sweet!"

5 Seconds later.....

Executed (<- After we hard leashed him at gromp..and when he rotated for golems..well......EXECUTED)

My other games

Executed

Executed

Executed

My soul hurts for you junglers out there when i see this..

Try Nautilus he's great rn

Kr1sysNov 13, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=da plazma pika,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tg7YQOkc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-13T01:40:37.816+0000)

...Didn't the jungle get nerfed or something?

No, well, some things did, but other changes outweighed the nerfs.

They nerfed the xp gain, which is greatsarcasm, since junglers were rarely ever the highest level person on the team. Only if they did well, and by well, I mean perfectly, did they come close to matching up with a solo laner.

They increased the the gold given on large monsters, but a 6-7 gold increase but now our jungle item now costs 200 gold more, and they removed the passive gold increase on machete.

The annoying part of the jungle right now is they force you to spend so much money that is hard to come by early on an item that will not do anything outside of the jungle.

I main Shaco, and it feels super clunky. When playing him in particular, you did your first clear which was usually: Kill your red/blue with box stack(which is actually harder now since cds and the spawn time doesn't line up the same way as S5. Go to enemy buff opposing yours, steal or kill enemy jungler. Crab, check lanes for gank, go back to farm.

At that last part, if you go back to farm, in a lot of situations this is what happens: You're low in hp from either stealing or killing jungler and have to back, which sets you behind or You didn't manage to do either, you've wasted time, and since you're probably the worst clearing jungler in the game, you're going to fall behind against your opposing jungler

Now, his issue is complicated even further by the Tiamat change, it was essentially required item in S5, and now with the passive removal, he just continues to be a really slow clear. I'm sure we will find something or they'll change in, but in the meantime, man, does it suck to play him.

fasegaNov 14, 20151 votes

"They increased the the gold given on large monsters, but a 6-7 gold increase but now our jungle item now costs 200 gold more, and they removed the passive gold increase on machete."

I am glad someone besides me realized this massive nerf to junglers. I saw this in the patch notes and cried. I mean they did this at the start of last season to. Junglers need this extra gold otherwise you are very weak unless you snowballed.

MohawkBirdNov 13, 20153 votes

Yeah I honestly disagree a lot with this. I would rather just have only one component, either talisman or machete, to be able to be built into a tier 2 jungle item alone. I shouldn't have to invest in talisman, especially as a manaless jungler. That and the fact that I can't even upgrade jungle item to tier two after first back is just straight up annoying.

Zana LyranderNov 13, 20153 votes

Yup... Jungle items now cost more, are less effective and helpful early game, and junglers get less gold in the jungle. All in all, this patch was one big nerf to junglers.

NeedLeSaqNov 13, 20152 votes

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Zair UmbrasNov 14, 20152 votes

I dunno. Lee Sin is sorta known for being one of safest junglers around. lol.

IncognonymousNov 13, 20151 votes

I actually died twice as Yi in the jungle, once at level 2 to Red because of the smite timer change, and once trying to solo Rift Herald.

Muffler ManNov 13, 20151 votes

i have fine clears with Rengar took a game to get used to but now its fine

Earl EulrichNov 13, 20151 votes

yea, it feels really off right now - it seems no matter how well you do you just really drop in levels hard&fast compared to the lanes. It´s really unsatisfying.

Slamurai JackNov 13, 20151 votes

It's actually pretty good even if you don't use mana. For one, it actually gives extra energy regen too even though it doesn't say so. The heal steal is also OP on any champion with a decent AOE ability.

Blazing TenshiNov 13, 20151 votes

I like the changes, my jungler can still clear just as before with the added benefit of hunter's potion plus there are less early ganks to worry about when laning.