FORCING a Champion to a particular lane ONLY is unacceptable.

Señor Karthus·Aug 4, 2015·111 votes·5,343 views

You better rethink what you are doing to Morde. It is good to try to add meta changers. It is a good idea that he can be a duo partner. But don't FORCE HIM. If you are going to do it just delete him because it would be the most limited Champion in the whole game. Jesus even Lucian could jungle if he wanted to. With those changes Morde wouldn't be able to effectively do anything else than being duo replacing an adc that no one will ever want to replace.

123 Comments

LarasoAug 4, 201533 votes

I mean, I get that Mordekaiser isn't particularly the most popular champion in League, but why screw over the few people who actually play him by forcibly shoehorning him into the bot lane just to try out an experiment that probably wont work?

The dragon passive just feels like a slap in the face when I think about how I'm not even going to be able to play my main champ in my main role anymore. I might be excited about that if they weren't removing him from mid lane. It's like, "Hey guys, LOOK! You can control a dragon for a few seconds! ISN'T THAT NEAT?" and everyone laps it up like dogs. It's gimmicky as hell and I bet the biggest reason they did it is to get everyone else hyped for the Mordekaiser rework that nobody who plays Mordekaiser actually wants.

MercuryCannonsAug 4, 201510 votes

Nobody is going to play him bot lane competitively anyways, so 3 weeks after he comes out nobody else is going to play him bot lane except a few anti meta hipsters.

LarasoAug 4, 20155 votes

And he's going to be extremely popular the first week because of all the people who're only playing him for the novelty of controlling a dragon for 30 seconds.

Only Play DariusAug 5, 20157 votes

Skarner

Not that Skarner was viable anywhere else, but his new passive absolutely forces him into a jungle role.

Count BuffonAug 5, 20155 votes

They've been forcing metas and pigeonholing things for a long time. Hybrid items aren't allowed to scale because reasons. Special items were made for junglers and have jungler DRM in them, because the top laner isn't allowed to play with my toys. Wacky obscure modifications have to be made to specific towers and first blood awards because too many wrong #LCSbigplays at the wrong time.

And now that the Devourer meta is out of control, they kick Cinderhulk in the knees and gut armor and send Lee Sin a bouquet with a card saying, "I'm so sorry you weren't 90% pick/ban for almost a whole year, will u plz 4giv? (p.s. - Come to worlds baby, we need you)".

I don't know what happened to their philosophy of incremental changes or saving major stuff for the off-season. I mean, I was getting used to the DRM and I was half-resigned to hybrid items being a joke for another year or so before they get deleted altogether, but this upcoming patch is something else.

Halodjin TyrAug 4, 20153 votes

Hey at least He can Do a Lane, Evelynn , thanks to the changes of 5.0+ Evelynn is now a Shit Jungler, Shit top laner, and I win more games as her as support then any other roll -_-

RalanthaAug 5, 20153 votes

People complain about being forced to support and complain Morde was nerfed too hard a couple years ago, is this to appease both sides? I like support, I like Morde... but I would not want to play a Morde support. As mentioned before, it does feel very gimmicky and "lol more Kalista game plays guys!"

BârdAug 5, 20152 votes

Oh, it isn't support mordekaiser. They want him to replace the marksman.

Dies to WolvesAug 5, 20156 votes

{quoted}

People complain about being forced to support and complain Morde was nerfed too hard a couple years ago, is this to appease both sides? I like support, I like Morde... but I would not want to play a Morde support. As mentioned before, it does feel very gimmicky and "lol more Kalista game plays guys!"

he's being shoehorned into a replacement for an ADC, not supp. His bot lane gimmick being that he gains full XP for minions he kills (allies still get halved XP), so you're really missing out if you're not the one farming.

OrangesilkAug 5, 20151 votes

He doesn't replace the ADC, he replaces the BOTLANER.

This means that ADCs (marksmen) who happen to able to lane in different circumstances will be IDEAL teammates for him. He has become an extremely interesting champion for premade 5v5s.

3TWarriorAug 5, 20153 votes

so now you get a champion that's no fun to use in bottom lane circumstances (mordekaiser) and the marksman instead goes top (vayne/quinn/kalista/teemo)

neither of these situations are a good thing. Mordekaiser doesn't have the range to survive bottom lane and his shield is only good for 1 v 1 scenarios where as a duo lane instantly destroys that shield and shreds his non-tanky hp

meanwhile, a darius, jayce, vladimir, gnar, etc top will clean-sweep the marksman top because they're not tanky enough to survive one combo or outsustain...vlad versus teemo is case by case

garen will absolutely kill the marksman because his kit relies on champs that he can keep in range...that's almost anyone, even marksmen and especially non-tanky champions because of his high base damages

OrangesilkAug 5, 20152 votes

Morde needs CC to land his kit, this CC will be provided by his support, his whole kit is now based around his support. Think something like Nami, Leona, Blitz, guaranteeing him his damage. It'll be a kill-lane, compounded by the fact that he ALWAYS has the level advantage, since his support doesn't drain at his xp.

I don't like toplane marksmen, with very few exceptions in special matchups, toplane is a long lane, you can't farm safely in there, even if you win by harass, you -will- get ganked, bad times.

Midlane safe-farming marksmen however, are wonderful, and open up many varied fun compositions. (Tristana is a nice possibility, long range, the ability to easily waveclear, and has an escape that almost always leaves you right on your turret, Varus mid is becoming a very real possibility, with long range poke and farm.)

CastozorAug 5, 20152 votes

The thing is, kill lanes all ready exist and they are extremely feast or famine. There is a reason you will almost never see them in 5v5 premades or the LCS. So why completely butcher Mordekaiser's solo lane potential, the one role he has always been played in, to make him into some gimmicky bot lane bruiser. If they want to make kill lanes a thing they could have designed a whole new champ from the ground up to do that instead of altering a champ some people already love playing in his current iteration.

OrangesilkAug 5, 20151 votes

Well, Mordekaiser has extreme late-game scalings (Look at that Q, tell me the numbers aren't ridiculous), he doesn't -need- to snowball to be useful, but now he has GREAT snowball potential if going 2v2 against people who aren't getting increased exp and don't have insane burst.

-some- people love him but to say that Morde players are a minority would be an overstatement, much like Poppy, Taric, old Sion and Yorick, they are mostly played for hipster value or nostalgia, sometimes champion kits are such a terrible mess they aren't worth saving, and should be changed entirely for the best.

CastozorAug 5, 20152 votes

But his current kit isn't a mess. Midlane especially he isn't overbearingly oppressive or anything and (semi) ranged champions being annoying to play against top is a given but there are at least a dozen or so ranged champs currently viable in top and we aren't buffing/nerfing them either. And no, speaking for myself and probably most Mordekaiser mains/lovers, I/we do not play him for nostalgia or hipster value. We genuinely like his current kit and playstyle. This rework was their chance to make him less unfun to play against (especially top) while retaining what made us play him in the first place. Instead the so called "creative" CertainlyT doesn't know what to do with him and forces him into becoming a duo laner because making actual work of this rework is too damn hard apparently.

DJ Di0Aug 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-08-04T21:00:49.287+0000)

You better rethink what you are doing to Morde. It is good to try to add meta changers. It is a good idea that he can be a duo partner. But don't FORCE HIM. If you are going to do it just delete him because it would be the most** limited Champion in the whole game. **

Wow, it's almost like a whole class of champions has never been restrained to only be viable in a single role.

Alistar Bard Braum Janna Leona Nami Sona Soraka Taric Thresh Zilean Zyra

Hmmm

TheEvilQueen135Aug 5, 20151 votes

actually out of those some say zilean and zyra mid are still somewhat valid. also i personally believe sona mid is okay.

DJ Di0Aug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

actually out of those some say zilean and zyra mid are still somewhat valid. also i personally believe sona mid is okay.

It's still possible to play Zilean and Zyra mid, but there's simply better options. Same with Lulu. Whenever Lulu Mid/Top gets popular she gets nerfs (which affect her support power sometimes, too).

I play Sona Mid myself from time to time, but we all know Riot doesn't want her mid, and she'd be nerfed the second it got popular.

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-08-05T13:35:12.952+0000)

Wow, it's almost like a whole class of champions has never been restrained to only be viable in a single role.

Hmmm

Shame on you many of them can be played in multiple lanes. I main Taric jungle and top. Sona mid can be good. Zyra mid can be good (you have to be very good at her and land your combo). I've seen AD Braum top destroying the enemy. Ali jungle. Zilean mid. None of them have a kit that prevents them from doing other things in other lanes, with the exception of Soraka since she can't heal herself with her healing ability and would be a waste in solo lane. Something I consider a mistake from her rework.

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=00110002,timestamp=2015-08-05T15:18:02.919+0000)

Shame on you many of them can be played in multiple lanes. I main Taric jungle and top. Sona mid can be good. Zyra mid can be good (you have to be very good at her and land your combo). I've seen AD Braum top destroying the enemy. Ali jungle. Zilean mid. None of them have a kit that prevents them from doing other things in other lanes, with the exception of Soraka since she can't heal herself with her healing ability and would be a waste in solo lane. Something I consider a mistake from her rework.

I feel like you need to take a step back and realize the problem here.

Taric is terrible.

Sona mid is a gimmick.

Zyra got pushed into support by the players, her mids just meh with all the changes trying to nerf support Zyra.

Alistar jungle is an abomination that should be killed with fire anytime it gets strong.

Just because I can take Draven mid doesn't mean Draven mid is good. Think about it some more.

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=001100020000,timestamp=2015-08-05T15:24:21.792+0000)

I feel like you need to take a step back and realize the problem here.

Taric is terrible.

Yeah this is the kind of player I kill with my Taric jungle. Prejudiced people who don't know how he works and who underestimate his damage output.

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=0011000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T15:28:28.866+0000)

Yeah this is the kind of player I kill with my Taric jungle. Prejudiced people who don't know how he works and who underestimate his damage output.

You mean the guy who has no jungle clear and his damage output requires sticking in melee range of a target with a single stun you have to use to even get into range?

Better off just playing Jungle Ryze. I'm not prejudiced, I've played Taric. I understand how he works. You don't understand the game.

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=00110002000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T15:31:35.816+0000)

You mean the guy who has no jungle clear and his damage output requires sticking in melee range of a target with a single stun you have to use to even get into range?

Better off just playing Jungle Ryze. I'm not prejudiced, I've played Taric. I understand how he works. You don't understand the game.

Since you are a using a fake account to comment on the forums I can guess you have been probably banned with your main. And since your behavior here is so condescending and negative, I can mostly confirm that. So probably it is you who doesn't understand the game and got banned for that.

Shoot Them DeadAug 5, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=001100020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-05T15:36:23.256+0000)

Since you are a using a fake account to comment on the forums I can guess you have been probably banned with your main. And since your behavior here is so condescending and negative, I can mostly confirm that. So probably it is you who doesn't understand the game and got banned for that.

Nice argument, but it doesn't hold water. You decided that you would rather attack the person then the argument, which means you concede the point to me.

Good day sir.

Trash ADC BtwAug 6, 20152 votes

You want an argument? Fine. Here's your argument. What other jungler can provide a huge array of aura-buffs to the lane he enters at any stage of the early/mid-games? What other jungler enhances the survivability of the laner he enters with, to prevent a 1 for 1 situation from occurring?

Taric may not be the most popular or the best jungle pick for kill potential, but he's a damn fine pick for early to mid survival and sustain comps. For late-game compositions, especially involving a botlane Vayne and a top lane Nasus . Taric can provide a roaming bulwark, preventing lanes from falling, and while not picking up too many kills, Taric has the capability of stalling the board and counterganking effectively with his E and defensive auras to save his team. There ya go.

Shoot Them DeadAug 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You want an argument? Fine. Here's your argument. What other jungler can provide a huge array of aura-buffs to the lane he enters at any stage of the early/mid-games?

JarvanIV Nunu

But that doesn't really matter because the aura's can't make up for his other shortcomings.

What other jungler enhances the survivability of the laner he enters with, to prevent a 1 for 1 situation from occurring?

Kayle but she's bullshit right now in general. If you consider Shen a jungler, he's probably better then Taric at doing that. But Shen's a shit jungler just like Taric.

may not be the most popular or the best jungle pick for kill potential, but he's a damn fine pick for early to mid survival and sustain comps.

Taric can't even protect himself in his own jungle early on. His clear is terrible. Worse then Shen's. An Amumu could counterjungle his ass. If you had Rek'sai on the enemy team Taric becomes shark food.

Taric can provide a roaming bulwark, preventing lanes from falling,

Do you mean failing or the tower falling?

and while not picking up too many kills,

or assists BAZINGA

Taric has the capability of stalling the board and counterganking effectively with his E and defensive auras to save his team.

There are much better stallers and countergankers in the game then Taric, who can actually jungle effectively.

Pick Cho'gath. Gragas. Sejuani. Tanks with the tools to be an effective counter ganker who's CC isn't a single target stun that they also need to hold somebody down to deal their damage. If Taric had better jungle clear I might be inclined to say he's viable, but as is, nah.

Señor KarthusAug 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Triggered Lucian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=001100020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-06T20:58:41.551+0000)

But that doesn't really matter because the aura's can't make up for his other shortcomings.

but she's bullshit right now in general. If you consider Shen a jungler, he's probably better then Taric at doing that. But Shen's a shit jungler just like Taric.

Taric can't even protect himself in his own jungle early on. His clear is terrible. Worse then Shen's. An Amumu could counterjungle his ass. If you had Rek'sai on the enemy team Taric becomes shark food.

Do you mean failing or the tower falling?

or assists BAZINGA

There are much better stallers and countergankers in the game then Taric, who can actually jungle effectively.

Pick Cho'gath. Gragas. Sejuani. Tanks with the tools to be an effective counter ganker who's CC isn't a single target stun that they also need to hold somebody down to deal their damage. If Taric had better jungle clear I might be inclined to say he's viable, but as is, nah.

It is so funny to see people who never tried him say false things. His clear is not insane but it is good enough. His W comes up every 3 secs thanks to his passive and clears the camp really fast. I gank level 3 always because I have enough health left thanks to my Q. Insta click stun and a nice damage output that people constantly underestimate. You can get plenty of kills with Taric jungle http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1850288800/212202356 http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1810426901/212202356 http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1772965958/212202356

DJ Di0Aug 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fenrir Epsylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=00110002,timestamp=2015-08-05T15:18:02.919+0000)

Shame on you many of them can be played in multiple lanes. I main Taric jungle and top. Sona mid can be good. Zyra mid can be good (you have to be very good at her and land your combo). I've seen AD Braum top destroying the enemy. Ali jungle. Zilean mid. None of them have a kit that prevents them from doing other things in other lanes, with the exception of Soraka since she can't heal herself with her healing ability and would be a waste in solo lane. Something I consider a mistake from her rework.

The keyword here that you've been using is 'can'. I played Taric and Leona jungle when cinderhulk first came out. I've played Sona, Nami, Janna, and Zyra in the midlane.

If I go Teemo support and win the game, does that make him a viable support now, and something that Riot endorses? No.

You /can/ play anyone anywhere, but it's Riot who decides what they want to actually be a consistently viable pick.

Lulu has been nerfed time and time again when she becomes popular in other lanes besides support. Janna mid was nerfed, Taric solo lane was nerfed, Alistar jungle was gutted because Riot doesn't want him to decide a lane with a level 2 gank like he used to seasons ago.

All I'm saying is that Morde being only viable in the botlane wouldn't be something that hasn't been done before.

Meep ManAug 4, 20152 votes

When did they say they are forcing him anywhere sheesh. They gave him changes to be ABLE to be played there, but so far the only big change is Creeping Death requires you to stay in the fight to work.

Señor KarthusAug 4, 201528 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-04T21:11:32.193+0000)

When did they say they are forcing him anywhere sheesh. They gave him changes to be ABLE to be played there, but so far the only big change is Creeping Death requires you to stay in the fight to work.

"We’re trying Mordekaiser out as a duo lane juggernaut, intended to step up in lieu of a regular marksmen pick. " " Creeping Death now only deals damage if Morde and his targeted ally stay near each other, a change intended to help entice Morde into duo lanes"

Blue Moon WolfAug 5, 20154 votes

please tell me by "his targeted ally" you mean a minion you casted it on as well... there are some of us who use that ability to keep ranged champs at bay.If it only damages enemies when used on ally champs now, I will likely stop using mord... after I finish banging my head on the wall from the stupidity of that change .__. Mordekaiser : but I get ghost dragons now :( Me: big whoop, it takes like 5 mins. to respawn and needs you to be in ult range when it dies... how is that gonna help if the enemy takes dragon while you're at base?

Vibrating HotdogAug 5, 20152 votes

He can no longer use W on an ally minion, only allied champions.

Blue Moon WolfAug 5, 20156 votes

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1tq0l7b3l1qieybw.gif

ArkenStormAug 5, 20152 votes

im stealing this gif

Ulquiorra995Aug 5, 20159 votes

And don't forget nerfed E damage. And only single-target Q. And reduced MS so he can never trigger that Q on a smart enemy.

So, solo lane Mordekaiser has gone from one of the best pushers in the game to one of the worst and effectively has only one damaging ability versus champions. I dreaded the moment Mordekaiser's rework will come but I was like "Hey, the guys did great job with Sion and Gangplank, I'll give them a chance". Nope.

LadyRenlyAug 5, 20153 votes

Shouldn't they have used the word coerce instead of entice?

NefasAug 4, 20157 votes

Creeping Death's tanky stats - very important to a top lane Morde - are no longer accessible for him. He cannot even use W without an ally.

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/KhcvQBlG-mordekaiser-change-summary-feedback-thread?comment=0002000000000000

jmaishereAug 5, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lUJ1VOpt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-04T21:11:32.193+0000)

When did they say they are forcing him anywhere sheesh. They gave him changes to be ABLE to be played there, but so far the only big change is Creeping Death requires you to stay in the fight to work.

his e is gutted, his q is changed so it doesn't have extra range, his w is useless in solo lane, and if i recall he still has one of the lowest base hp regen in the whole game. At this point, he can't solo a lane anymore.

NielarkenAug 5, 20157 votes

Soraka I think Soraka holds the title for lowest hp regen

jmaishereAug 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think Soraka holds the title for lowest hp regen

she has a heal built into her kit, whereas morde damages himself to attack

DrCyanideAug 5, 20151 votes

That's changed on the PBE, his W is losing its health cost and heals him depending on damage dealt.

Phil FlyAug 5, 20151 votes

you mean the damage it no longer deals?

DrCyanideAug 5, 20151 votes

Nothing in the notes I'm reading about changes to his W's damage, only the duration. It looks like they intend for you to let it run 3.5 seconds then pop it manually to deal more damage and heal.

Señor KarthusAug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Nothing in the notes I'm reading about changes to his W's damage, only the duration. It looks like they intend for you to let it run 3.5 seconds then pop it manually to deal more damage and heal.

It can ONLY be used if there is an ally and you use it on them. It won't deal damage in a solo lane.

Dies to WolvesAug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

his e is gutted, his q is changed so it doesn't have extra range, his w is useless in solo lane, and if i recall he still has one of the lowest base hp regen in the whole game. At this point, he can't solo a lane anymore.

not to mention they're also nerfing his base MS to make him more dependent on allies (both to get to his target and to run from enemies), making him less able to do stuff against his lane opponents in solo lanes and EVEN MORE vulnerable to ganks

Doctor DymentAug 6, 20152 votes

You aren't FORCED to one lane. You're just put there with a giant ball and chain around your ankle, and a giant metal cage to keep you there. See, it is difficult, but you can escape from prison! All you need to do is cut off your leg, then break down the metal cage with your head, then limp back to the mid lane bleeding to death and with multiple concussions and play to your heart's content!

OJ191Aug 5, 20151 votes

I... don't really see how any of these problems fuck with solo morde

they don't really help him either, but they don't harm him.

<-- hasn't read PBE notes only the boards post so if there's something glaring that isn't in the juggernauts announcement sorry

SasogwaAug 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I... don't really see how any of these problems fuck with solo morde

they don't really help him either, but they don't harm him.

<-- hasn't read PBE notes only the boards post so if there's something glaring that isn't in the juggernauts announcement sorry

Morde can not use his W anymore unless he also uses it on an ally champion

3TWarriorAug 5, 20153 votes

his Q no longer hits/spreads to multiple targets and his E now has one of the lowest possible base damages compared to one of the highest that he currently has

compare 100 damage total from an ability rotation...to 35...yes, 35...someone could outsustain your damage with a potion, even at max rank (150 damage compared to 250)

Trash ADC BtwAug 6, 20151 votes

He can't W without an allied champion around anymore.