Q: Snare duration reduced to 0.75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 from 2 seconds at all ranks.
Now she has to make a decision: Max Q for snare duration or Max E for reliable damage.
Right now she always max E while still getting 2 seconds of snare from rank 1 Q.
xl Kirito lx3 votesFor some reason this board is convinced that Lux is just a product of the meta. This would be nice though, add some counterplay to her 100-0 combo.
macromite1 votesif anything, lux is counter to the meta, this meta is one that lux should theoretically get destryoed by, mage items are weak, assassins that naturally counter mages are everywhere, adc's are harder to kill than ever before, and yet there is a mage designed to kill squishies that isn't particularly strong against assassins still being played.
TeemoXNidalee1 votesif anything, lux is counter to the meta, this meta is one that lux should theoretically get destryoed by, mage items are weak, assassins that naturally counter mages are everywhere, adc's are harder to kill than ever before, and yet there is a mage designed to kill squishies that isn't particularly strong against assassins still being played.
Because she is OP
Itadaki Seieki3 votesOr you could just dodge the snare? ._.
It's rather predictable.
NeoBrawler3 votes[{quoted}](name=Bard and Soul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=te37tg3w,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-01T16:46:07.860+0000)
Or you could just dodge the snare? ._.
It's rather predictable.
So is swain's,morg's,etc. But they don't have as long,hard to see, and fast snare as lux. Pretty hard to not get hit run to her with no boots to trade.
Itadaki Seieki1 votesSo is swain's,morg's,etc. But they don't have as long,hard to see, and fast snare as lux. Pretty hard to not get hit run to her with no boots to trade.
I've.. I've never had trouble dodging it. :T That or I'm just more observant of positioning when it comes to Lux. Most of the time I make her scared to all-in cause Malz combo is a lot more punishing if she misses Q and I land mine.
Kaxi3 votesI actually wouldn't mind this sort of nerf (being a Lux player), so long as there's a trade-off. Perhaps make it scale a little better at max rank? 1.25-2.25? Or, they could do a slight reversion of the second hit of the Light Binding; instead of making it half, just a 25% reduction in CC? There are a few ways they could go about this.
Zero Skill Tank2 votesWhy a tradeoff when she is strongest midlaner now...?
Titanium701 votesBecause playing around with CC-duration and skillorders are really hard nerfs even if they dont look like at first! #
he dropped like what, 5%, 7% winrate in an instant?
The effect on Lux would not be that massive because she scales competely different than Swain does, but still they have to be carefull with those ideas.
OverpoweredSoap1 votesWhy a tradeoff when she is strongest midlaner now...?
Because Riot seems to either give strong champions trade-offs or completely destroys them.
Over Innsmouth2 votesSorry for the salt but, you can have a tradeoff when Swain and Karthus get tradeoffs for their nerfs.
Silents4293 votesI feel like you don't actually know why Swain was nerfed.
Lux can't lose her root, she is squishy and fucked the second anyone gets in her face, Swain builds tank and turns into a demon bird if you come near him.
You can't kill her ability to defend herself, just make her E have to charge, or raise the cooldown on her ult.
macromite1 votesi mean, the reason is irrelevant considering that the reason for this is different. lux is a very strong safe pick that has strong cc and strong burst, her kit having a 1 point wonder is probably not a good thing.
maybe instead of changing it from 2 to .75 - 1.75, it could probably get changed from 2 to 1 - 2.25, slight buff overall, but it opens up early ganks to help put her down before she gets her powerspikes.
Silents4292 votesNo the reasons for any balance change are critical you don't just look at what they did to another champion and toss it onto this one just because you can.
Swain W got toned down because Swain is a big crazy lane bully that can easily cheese kills at level 3.
Lux is not in this situation, she is overbearing to deal with late game, making her choose early game to farm minions and be unsafe, or be safe and not farm minions, is not a fair change for her.
A simple increase to her ult cooldown, making her E have to ramp up it's damage instead of it being max power, or just making her W not reapply can all be easy things to reduce her late game power without compromising on her Early game, where she is generally weakest anyway.
TeemoXNidalee1 votesNo the reasons for any balance change are critical you don't just look at what they did to another champion and toss it onto this one just because you can.
Swain W got toned down because Swain is a big crazy lane bully that can easily cheese kills at level 3.
Lux is not in this situation, she is overbearing to deal with late game, making her choose early game to farm minions and be unsafe, or be safe and not farm minions, is not a fair change for her.
A simple increase to her ult cooldown, making her E have to ramp up it's damage instead of it being max power, or just making her W not reapply can all be easy things to reduce her late game power without compromising on her Early game, where she is generally weakest anyway.
Like lux isn't a lane bully when she takes half your health with E+AA/Thunderlord
Silents4292 votesFollowing that setup about every single mage in League is a lane bully now if they do a combo.
Swain just throws an undodgeable highly damaging E at you every couple seconds, and thanks to his passive he will recover mana quickly from it. This is being a lane bully.
Lux can be dodged, lux cannot recover her mana in the same manner, lux is vulnerable when she does this.
macromite1 votesI mean, clearly you don't understand how to balance.
The idea is to let everyone live out their champions power fantasy at some point in the game, for lux, that is the later parts of mid game, after she gets most of her items and most of her levels, true late game is terrible for lux because people really stop being able to be bursted in true late game.
so the best way to nerf her is to let her keep that point of the game as her strong point.
A direct nerf for lux would probably kill her, she is on a knifes edge as it is. so it would nee dto be a fairly neutral nerf.
The way to do this would probably end up being a change on her q, as it is currently a one point wonder skill, and those are unhealthy anyway.
Her damage is actually tuned to be about where it should be, so the only option is to reduce her safety.
this is the best way to reduce her safety in a small manner, to make it so that lux can still farm, still be abel to avoid ganks, still be able to make most of her plays, without losing any of her main traits. she would still be relatively safe, and she would still have most of what she needs to succeed.
on another relevant note, I'm like 90% certain that people like you are the reason why riot doesn't communicate with the playerbase. always complaining about things without even thinking about the ramifications of other changes. exclusively saying ideas are bad without following up with why.
and a final note, If you noticed I specified why the reason that swain was nerfed is irrelevant. this is because, and if i quote myself here, the reasoning is very different. swain was nerfed because he is a lane bully. lux should be nerfed because she is too safe for a nuking burst mage.
She should remain, a nuking burst mage, low cd's are fine on that class, for the most part, needing to charge her E would literally end up killing her as it wouldn't fix the problem and we know riots stance on reverts. so on and so forth.
its not hard, you probably just want to see the character removed from the game.
Silents4291 votesI mean, clearly you don't understand how to balance. The idea is to let everyone live out their champions power fantasy at some point in the game, for lux, that is the later parts of mid game, after she gets most of her items and most of her levels, true late game is terrible for lux because people really stop being able to be bursted in true late game. so the best way to nerf her is to let her keep that point of the game as her strong point.
No that is not how it works, just because her late game is suppose to be strong does not mean it can't be too strong, upping the ultimate cooldown for example tones down the late game without impacting the other stages as much. People don't stop being unable to get bursted late game, especially from Lux.
Gutting a stage that she is already weak in doesn't change anything about her late game except make her a pain in the ass for the player to use and to actually get to that point in the game, she begins to crumble if she can't secure an early game.
A direct nerf for lux would probably kill her, she is on a knifes edge as it is. so it would nee dto be a fairly neutral nerf. The way to do this would probably end up being a change on her q, as it is currently a one point wonder skill, and those are unhealthy anyway.
A direct nerf is not lowering her ult cooldown, or requiring her E some ramp up time. A direct nerf is stripping her Q's power from her.
You mention one point wonder being her Q, but I don't think you even know about this entirely either, OPW are not inherently bad, they had consistency element to champions to allow easier balance, They just recently for example made 
W + Q combo have a buffer, so it can be done consistently now, this means Ali can be buffed or changed without having an inconsistent nature like IF a player can land that combo well, just like Lux will be harder to balance because it stops being IF they land a skillshot and becomes, IF they land a skillshot and IF they are leveling up Q, it adds problems to her kit.
Make the Q change go through, what stops her from being completely bullied and stomped all of the laning phase? a 0.75 second root or whatever won't do anything for her anymore, and forcing a player to choose between better farm and some safety is just a poor experience and makes her unfun. There are so many other places to tone her down without causing these problems.
And if you consider someone who has been sitting on the higher end of playrate/winrate for a few patches now on "The knifes edge" you need to rethink the meaning of that term.
Her damage is actually tuned to be about where it should be, so the only option is to reduce her safety. this is the best way to reduce her safety in a small manner, to make it so that lux can still farm, still be abel to avoid ganks, still be able to make most of her plays, without losing any of her main traits. she would still be relatively safe, and she would still have most of what she needs to succeed.
Her damage isn't what's being suggested for a nerf, it's how often she can do the damage, and there is a BIG difference.
Her Ult does the same damage with a longer cooldown, just now it won't be spammable by her, and she has to actually make the conscience thought on whether she should save her ult or not.
Her E ramps up now, because an AOE slow, high damaging, long range, instant damaging is complete bullshit at times. Making it require her to position it properly to maximize potential damage, doesn't reduce it's damage it just means she doesn't have assloads on hand regardless of her skill.
Changing her W to not re-apply or just not shield as much, isn't even touching her damage, it's just lowering the annoyances she brings onto enemies, apply it once. Good, it's a nice little shield for her team, reapplying it right away is just a pain in the ass.
on another relevant note, I'm like 90% certain that people like you are the reason why riot doesn't communicate with the playerbase. always complaining about things without even thinking about the ramifications of other changes. exclusively saying ideas are bad without following up with why.
Oh that's rich. Clearly I am a closed book of complaints.
and a final note, If you noticed I specified why the reason that swain was nerfed is irrelevant. this is because, and if i quote myself here, the reasoning is very different. swain was nerfed because he is a lane bully. lux should be nerfed because she is too safe for a nuking burst mage.
It is not irrelevant, the OP is using Swains nerf as a justification that Lux should get similar treatment when the context behind Swains nerf doesn't even apply to Lux in any way.
She should remain, a nuking burst mage, low cd's are fine on that class, for the most part, needing to charge her E would literally end up killing her as it wouldn't fix the problem and we know riots stance on reverts. so on and so forth.
Oh my christ, a mage capable of nuking burst damage on low cd's. That is fine to you, SERIOUSLY?
Charging her E is not a several second ramp up, at most it lasts 2 seconds to hit max damage, meaning her Q + E + Ult + AA combo is still perfectly viable, but reduces her poke damage.
And finally, Riot has reverted so many god damn nerfs that this has become so damned cringe worthy to be reading.
macromite1 votesyou know what, I'm gonna try to get through this fast.
lux's late game is actually balanced. not too strong, not too weak, and is good at what its supposed to be good at without being good at what id shouldn't be.
making her early game weaker while not reducing her powerful midlate game is actuall the way to make balance good. lux shouldn't win early game, she should be surviving it.
making her e have charge up time is a direct nerf in that it lowers her straight burst, and it lowers her lane presence considerably. having a longer cd to her ult lowers her up time. both are direct nerfs.
one point wonders are bad in kits that are already somewhat linear because it makes it more linear. linear kits are bad because linear kits are either playable and strong or unplayable and weak with no inbetween. lux's kit is pretty linear, with very little separating her out from the pack, and very little of it can be situational, but rather is just used in the same order all the time because there is almost never a good case to give to maxing things other than her slow first.
alistar is already seperate enough from most other characters, and his kit relies on a combo of abilities, with good cases make able for maxing any one of his abilities first.
I didn't say .75 root. I said 1 second root. into a root that's currently longer than the one on live.
being able to farm or some safety is a choice she should have to make, rather than just getting both. decisions are what makes a game a game, if you don't need to make decisions than why even play. also, her q qould still give some safety, just not as much. enough to make it so that they will be able to escape from average ganks without flash, but low enough so they need to flash from strong engages.
knifes edge because the current meta counters her and most of what champions like her do. any major change to her could change that, especially if its done poorly, which would cause repeated nerfs.
damage and how often it can be used correlate. cd's and scalings are both things to take into consideration, and I did when i suggested my better more fair version of the nerf that the op gave. lux's current damage patterns are consistant, fair to the enemy in most cases, and her damage is not up often enough to be unfair for players that are playing around her correctly. also, the e ramp up time is a strait damage nerf, or it isn't anything. if the ramp is long enough to matter it could ruin lux's damage output considerably.
lux is a champion that is somehwat defined by her ability to spam her ult, perhaps a change to it could be made, but what that is i do not know, because increasing the cd or cast time could break it and make it far less useful, therefore making it so that lux would need a good amount of power redistributed elsewhere, or she might just get replaced by xerath. the proper fix for this in hind sight could be to make it a true channel rather than a cast time, stil with the nerf that i had previously stated. it still lowers her safety.
it does change its damage, you see, if it does less while ramping that likely means that her damage will suffer considerably, a similar problem to sion's current q. if its easily dodgable, it will be dodged. the ramp time would likely mean that lux would just end up with a weaker ability. I am not sure how you don't understand that.
I wihs you were a closed book of complaints, then I wouldn't be reading any of this right now. I mean, jsut try to think about what these cahnges would do other than just "nerf lux" if lux is less reliable what happens to her? what if her stuff becomes more easy to dodge in this landscape of mobility everywhere, what does that do?
I never insinuated that the op was correct in any way, heck man in the post I gave you I literally changed his main point. his point does however stand that lux should get nerfed, and probably in a similar manner to swain.
yeah, actually, nuking on low cd's is fine. why? because killing squish is fair play, they are squish, if they can't dodge the skills they should definitely die. her damage isn't overbearing though, becuase fighters and tanks can almost ignore it so long as they dodge just the root. even with her low cd's and her high damage. also, lux is one of the more mana hungry champions, so her ball does take a good while to actualyl get rolling in comparison to many of the more popular picks.
2 seconds is too long. when your playing in the mobility lane, your damage is either instant or it didn't happen.
lets compare. how many times has riot reverted a change, how many times has riot NOT reverted a change.
which number is higher. Imma let you figure that one out.
Just so that we're specific here, so that people that do not want to read our long ass list of points and counter points, and so I can clarify exactly what we are arguing, let me state what our changes of choice are, and what htey are meant to entail.
I want lux to get nerfed by having her q's duration changed from 2 seconds flat to 1-1.5-1.75-2-2.25 and her ult to change from being a cast time that can not be canceled to a channel that can be.
The idea of my changes is to reduce lux's early game safety, while not hurting her damage or late game reliability.
Silent wants lux to be nerfed by having lux's e changed from flat damage throughout the skill to having damage that charges over 2 seconds during the skill, and increasing her ultimates cooldown to an unspecified amount.
The idea of their changes is to make lux more difficult to play, while not increasing any of her other stats or abilities to help her get over the increase of difficulty.
actually if you wouldn't mind can you stick to this last thing in your next post silent, I feel like we'll end up writing a novel for every post if we keep what we're doing up.
blfUvZ8Ybu2 votesYes but this isn't enough.
LadyRenly2 votesYou already made this thread about getting an Ezreal treatment, what's next?
TeemoXNidalee1 votesYou already made this thread about getting an Ezreal treatment, what's next?
I don't mind how many treatments she gets, as long they're all nerfs.
Remlap12231 votesAre you kidding me? Swain's root is an AOE. He can damage and root however many enemies are in the area. Lux gets two in a line.
I get Lux is strong right now, but doing this will turn her 54% win rate into a 44%. And if you say otherwise you obviously have never played Lux.
Try to do a QER aa E aa combo with a snare that doesn't even last a second at level 6. Protip, you can't. It's literally impossible because they will walk out of your ultimate at the very least, your E if they're mobile enough.
Kieferr1 votesHere's an idea, lets just go on with the proposed nerf anyway because fuck it. Lux is cancer. Getting hit by a Q at lvl 6 and forward is a death sentence. Most punishing, unforgiving spell in the game. You can continue complaining about how ad assassins are overpowered and mages are the most repressed, weakest class in the game while Ahri and Lux have been left blatantly overpowered for months, I won't take anything less than a gutting to compensate for the bullshit I had to deal with.