We need a new form of CC.

Tentakill Myself·Jul 21, 2015·36 votes·2,590 views

"Anti-Mobility"

The affected person is prevented from using any type of blink, dash, or mobility move other than a speed boost or flash for X seconds.

Because fuck

60 Comments

RetroRage96Jul 21, 201518 votes

Root.

KONO RUBICK DAJul 21, 201511 votes

op is talking about a cc which weakens mobile champions rather than immobile champions

root punish every champions mobile or not mobile

Silents429Jul 21, 20155 votes

Well that's stupid, why would you make CC that is only going to work on 1 type of champion.

KONO RUBICK DAJul 21, 20156 votes

because currently most mobile champions have the same damage as immobile champions as well as beeing mobile. the immobile champions don't need more problems

Silents429Jul 21, 20151 votes

Okay but this is a deliberate weakness for any champion to have. I mean who cares about the Tryndamere charging at your team, at least you prevented Ahri from doing a couple dashes.

You did your job as a tank, and provided obviously decent CC. (Sarcastic)

SrirachaLimesJul 21, 20152 votes

While it is true that champs like LB or Ekko do have the damage and mobility that gives them the edge, immobile champs have plenty of other advantages.

For example, Cho'Gath and Swain both benefit from dealing plenty of damage but being tanky as well, making them hard to one shot and kill. Cho also has great CC, and in my eyes, having good CC is just as good as having mobility. Swain also has okay CC, with a root and a slow.

After all, speed is relative. If you can make someone else slow down, it's essentially the same as speeding yourself up. Of course, that relies on the fact that you have to land the skillshot and it won't necessarily stop everyone from coming at you, but you get the idea. More skill required, but greater benefits if you can land your CC.

Usually, whenever a champ lacks mobility, they make up for it in other ways.

Matthias9119Jul 21, 20158 votes

People have been suggesting "cripple" since Smite came out. For those who haven't tried it, Smite has this as one of their CCs -- you can still AA and walk and use abilities, but you can't use MS-increasing abilities or ones that include a dash or blink.

It might be interesting, but assuming that it lasted longer than a stun or silence or taunt (or was available much more often), it would likely produce a narrow "hard counter" kit where you could completely shut down champions that are heavily reliant on mobility. If your response to that is "WELL GOOD, I HATE MOBILE CHAMPIONS", then you're playing the wrong game, because Riot's balance philosophy tries to stay away from winning lanes and games in champion select.

HeeroTXJul 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

then you're playing the wrong game, because Riot's balance philosophy tries to stay away from winning lanes and games in champion select.

LOL, whut?

Matthias9119Jul 21, 20151 votes

I'm not saying they are always 100% successful at it. And they do want team composition to be important. But there's a reason they don't have champions like (for a frequently-requested example) DOTA2's Anti-Mage. [Basically, he's Kassadin except that his attacks drain your target's mana, his teleport is a non-ultimate but doesn't deal damage or have stacking cost, and his ult is Veigar's ult but scales with the amount of mana the target is missing rather than their AP. And stuns them if they're not dead, for good measure. He's insanely strong against high-mana targets but pretty much worthless against targets that don't use mana.]

When you have situations where one player's pregame choice invalidates another player's existence all game long, it causes bad things to happen. Or this leads you down the rabbit hole to DOTA2's balance, where every hero is conditionally incredibly OP, but if your weakness lines up with another player's strength you're completely hosed. (Which isn't necessarily bad, it's just very deliberately not what Riot is trying to do.)

KivolanJul 21, 20154 votes

So... Every form of hard CC that already exists? @@ Even Silence does this.

SaiannaJul 21, 20152 votes

Yeah, but there should be something that keeps hyper-mobile champions in check.

currently most of hard CC is either a skillshot or pool. Good luck trying to CC Katarina/Lb with skillshot CC when they jump every split second like damn apes

The Yetii RiderJul 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

So... Every form of hard CC that already exists? @@ Even Silence does this.

Problem is that the other forms of hard CC punish immobile champions harder than mobile champions. This one is directly targeted at the toxic unfun champs while leaving struggling warriors like Darius and Veigar alone.

ModAcademy KaynJul 21, 20154 votes

Smite has a version of this called a "Cripple". While Crippled, they can move around and such, but are not able to use movement abilities, dashes, blinks, etc. MS boosts are not hindered, but things like Riven Dash and etc are.

67chromeJul 21, 20153 votes

Roots already do that. It really screws over someone like Riven who gets her main damage and main defensive skills silenced during it, it hits her much harder than most.

Also, when it comes to damage-dealers in LoL, there's 3 main philosophies: Survive with defense Survive with mobility Survive with range

Fighters, assassins, and mages if you will. Fighter/assassins are a mix of defense and speed, marksman often a mix of speed and range. Now - apply CC to this?

A tanky champion that's stunned for 1 second might see the removal of 25% of their HP in that time. A squishy champion 90%.

A ranged champion can naturally stay out of range of CC skills in the first place, or be so far away when the edge of one "does" catch them their opponents spend the 1 second duration running up to them. Also - they're ranged, which means they can still hit anyone in a large radius, where a melee champion can see their DPS drop to 0% with a simple slow preventing them from reaching their target.

Mobile champions though? CC often immobilizes, and even with slows it will largely negate whatever bonuses mobility offers. Their defensive mechanic is rendered 100% useless when they're hit with hard CC.

CC already targets mobility harder than anything else. Pretty much every form of CC is anti-mobility by nature as-is. Also, the irritating factor with mobile champions isn't an inability to shut them down after they've been CCed, it's landing that CC on them in the first place.

Beyond this - I have to wonder "how" a new type of CC would benefit the game if it was implemented. Rather than ~33% of the champions in the game feeling like they're crowding out other picks because mobility feels good, now less than 1% of the champions in the game are 100% pick/ban because that champion that shuts down mobile champions is super amazing at shutting down mobile champions? Or now the ~5 champions that use this anti-mobility CC item the best are the best picks because they can easily render 1/3rd of the roster obsolete?

Stiv1234Jul 21, 20153 votes

Also, the irritating factor with mobile champions isn't an inability to shut them down after they've been CCed, it's landing that CC on them in the first place.

Thats the problem, and you are contradicting yourself a bit here. Since we have like 3 targeted stuns left in the game, mobility is rather anti-CC than the other way round.

Zair UmbrasJul 21, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Thats the problem, and you are contradicting yourself a bit here. Since we have like 3 targeted stuns left in the game, mobility is rather anti-CC than the other way round.

There's Taric's E, Naut's R and passive, Ali's W and W+Q combo (Needs to be timed, but mobility won't stop it regardless), Irelia's E, Fidd's Q, Udyr's AA's, Mao's W, Ryze's W, Garen's Q, Vayne's E, Poppy's E, Singed's E, Vi's R, WW's R, Rammus's E, Lulu's W, Malz's R, Quinn's E (slight knockback and half second stun through the entire animation), Skarner's R, Blitz's E, Voli's Q, Tahm's W, Panth's W, Lissandra's R, Leo's Q, Lee's R, Braum's AA's, Annie's kit (Let's face it, you're not 'dodging' insta-cast abilities that give no warning other than 'SHE HAS A STUN READY', but her Q is still a targeted stun), Trist's R, Urgot's R, Xin's Q, Teemo's Q (Plus his hidden passives like 'There is ALWAYS a Shroom EVERYWHERE' and the more popularly known 'Global Taunt'), Rek'Sai's W, Karma's W, Ren's W, TF's W's Gold Card, Noc's E, and lastly if you wish to consider it a Hard CC, there's Kass's Q that interrupts.

Those are all the 'hard CCs' that you press and then click on an opponent. Some are AA resets and require you to be in melee range for it or have to AA in general like Braum's passive, Blitz's E, Udyr, Xin, Rek'Sai, Renekton, Voli, Naut's passive, and Garen. Rammus's E, Singed's E, Irelia's E, and Lee's R are melee range so you could likely knock those if you knock the ones that are AA's. Quinn's E and Kass's Q can technically be ignored if there's no channel though Quinn's E does stop a majority of abilities like Riven's Q's, Fiora's Q, and various other abilities that involve movement or dashing. Teemo's Q is a blind, so take that one how you want to. Beyond that, the only non-guaranteed ones in there are Noc's E and Karma's W since they're both targeted tethers.

Overall, we have a LOT of targeted CC, a lot of it being for a notably long time like Garen's 2.5s silence and Renekton's and Irelia's 1.75s stuns and even Teemo's 2.5s blind. Other forms of CC exist where they're not targeted, but tend to be incredibly easy to land like Amumu and Sej's R's as well as Soraka's insta-cast silence and Annie's W and R, plus there's of course Skarner's passive, Shyv's R, Thresh's Flay, Trundle's Pillar of NOPE, Anivia's Wall of PURE DENIAL, Wu's E+R combo, Malph's R, Hecarim's R, Jax's E and many others.

Mandang0Jul 21, 20153 votes

And how many of those do ANYTHING against a LB (for example)? That's the actual problem - dealing with champions with easy escapes. Anivia's wall and Trundle's pillar are cute, but they're only good against the champions that weren't a problem to begin with.

KONO RUBICK DAJul 21, 20152 votes

those have small range, or take a long of time to be actived (taric/nauti)

CantReleaseYetJul 21, 20153 votes

Silence.

SaiannaJul 21, 20152 votes

Lets count how many targeted silences we have in LoL... ... ... ... Whole... ... 2 Garens Q with 1 hour long animation And Rumbles passive EDIT: Fidd

How many silence skillshots/pools Soraka, Blitz, Cho. EDIT: Malz

Kass has just disrupt in his Q which is targeted but doesn't immobilize mobile champions.

SO MANY WOW!

SociopathFriendJul 21, 20151 votes

Malzahar and Fiddlesticks demand to be added to that list purely for the sake of completion.

SaiannaJul 21, 20151 votes

Ah yes.. My bad :)

AMYS GRAVEJul 21, 20151 votes

silence doesn't allow you to use damaging abilities, the proposed new cc would.

LaowPingJul 21, 20152 votes

It exist. It's called a "stun"

Tentakill MyselfJul 21, 20154 votes

{quoted}

It exist. It's called a "stun"

You need this shit targeted for like 20 seconds though because apparently 2 dashes a second is balanced.

LaowPingJul 21, 20152 votes

Mobility exist. Why is that so hard for people to understand? I don't complain when Leona stuns me for 4-5 seconds straight. It's just another element of the game. Maybe people just aren't used to it.

Mandang0Jul 21, 20151 votes

Targeted CC exists. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

...unfortunately, Riot's going on a crusade lately where everything becomes a skillshot, which caters heavily to high mobility champs. When Riot's admitted that they haven't put a decent price on mobility in those kits, this is actually a balance problem, and it's why immobile champs are usually played much less often.

Zair UmbrasJul 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And how many of those do ANYTHING against a LB (for example)? That's the actual problem - dealing with champions with easy escapes. Anivia's wall and Trundle's pillar are cute, but they're only good against the champions that weren't a problem to begin with.

Pretty easily, actually. Naut's R likes to screw her or at least force her out of a fight. If Alistar headbutts LB when she tries to dash, it'll immediately stop her dash and knock her away without doing damage and it's easily done now with LB's travel time reduced. Quinn's E can also stop LB's Dash, which is a lot of her damage, so can Trundle's E and Anivia's W if you place it in front of yourself since like any dash, if you put a wall near the end of the dash, they don't go THROUGH, they faceplant into it, which means no damage from LB. There's also Fidd's Q, Taric's E, Lulu's polymorph, Braum's shield by itself would block her combo, Tahm's W can make the carry untargetable mid-combo so the Q+R is negated completely, Vi's R will chase LB to the ends of the world and can be easily followed up with a Q, Malz's R would simply kill her... I mean, tons of CC can stop LB now. You can even counter LB with Syndra. Haven't you watched LCS recently? No one is playing mobile mids anymore. lol. Mobile Assassins can't compete with immobile champs and at Plat, LB is nearly never played.

From 5.9 to 5.13, LB's play rate has diminished from 13% play rate to 5%. LB's win rate has also been murdered by at least 5% since patch 5.10 where she sat at 48% on average according to Champion.GG and is now at about 43%. The nerf in 5.11 was enough to kill her off.

Not only has LB become unpopular and is easily countered by CC since her dash has an actually noticeable travel time, but immobile mids have become DOMINANT in the mid lane. AP Kog and Ori are some of the top picks right now with Azir sitting right behind, though his E does give him mobility, but not to the extent of many others since his own is stopped by your own face. Mobile mages and assassins are dying out with how the new items have made it so much easier for immobile mages to have an impact on the game with sheer utility in the form of a Rylai's or lots of consistent damage with how Liandry's got a power boost and Luden's and Zhonya's took a 20 AP nerf each. This isn't the League of Mobility anymore.

Mandang0Jul 21, 20151 votes

LB was just one example, and I still don't think those skills are going to do much. I also couldn't care less what you think you're seeing in the LCS (I personally think I just watched weeks where Ezreal was spammed mid & Kalista and Fizz played, but to each their own).

Basically, the argument for countermeasures to Riot's well-established mobility creep is more general than any one champion & it will still hold even after the current list of mobile champs are phased out of the meta (if and when). If Riot wants to continue releasing champions that look like Ekko or Kalista, then they shouldn't be removing targeted CC.

Sorry to give the rest of your post such short shrift, but it's going down the rabbit hole of looking at LCS statistics which are honestly such a small sample size and so different from the game most of us play (professional 5s vs casual solo queue), that I really can't see the point of even mentioning it. I mean, look at how many sated champions are very successful now, and go check how many of them you would've called weak because they're unplayed in LCS.

Zair UmbrasJul 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

LB was just one example, and I still don't think those skills are going to do much. I also couldn't care less what you think you're seeing in the LCS (I personally think I just watched weeks where Ezreal was spammed mid & Kalista and Fizz played, but to each their own).

Basically, the argument for countermeasures to Riot's well-established mobility creep is more general than any one champion & it will still hold even after the current list of mobile champs are phased out of the meta (if and when). If Riot wants to continue releasing champions that look like Ekko or Kalista, then they shouldn't be removing targeted CC.

Sorry to give the rest of your post such short shrift, but it's going down the rabbit hole of looking at LCS statistics which are honestly such a small sample size and so different from the game most of us play (professional 5s vs casual solo queue), that I really can't see the point of even mentioning it. I mean, look at how many sated champions are very successful now, and go check how many of them you would've called weak because they're unplayed in LCS.

Most of my statistics were actually statistics from Champion.GG, which shows games in the top regions, KR, China, NA, and EU in Plat+. You can also take a look at LeagueOfGraphs if you so desire and you'll see a similar decline and they let you choose between Bronze+ all the way up to only showing Challenger in all regions.

Normally, I'd say your rank proves your skill, but since it shows you've played since S1, I'd simply have to guess you play this game very, very casually. This game is not designed around casuals or balanced around casuals. I won't say there's anything wrong with being a casual though. Casual players are incredibly common since this is a video game and isn't to always be taken 100% seriously. But... When you're going to say 'Oh, this champions mobility is OP' and I give you a plethora of examples of how to stop the mobility and show you how the champion has lost a LOT of playrate, plus winrate, and all I get is 'LCS isn't the same as casual play'... Well, I can't help you. If you won't step up and understand that mobility has very harsh counters and many mobile champions have been nerfed while the immobile ones are becoming very prominent, especially with the new items, then there's honestly nothing I can do.

RenailleJul 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Mobility exist. Why is that so hard for people to understand? I don't complain when Leona stuns me for 4-5 seconds straight.

Probably because she stuns you for 2.75 seconds.

warpenguin555Jul 21, 20152 votes

I have one Disoriented : For the next _____ seconds any dashes used become uncontrollable, going in a random direction when used

manbearswineJul 21, 20152 votes

Dude,it's riot,they'd end up giving it to a champion who is hyper mobile himself,then wonder why he is broken.

FyshinaTuxJul 21, 20151 votes

Aatrox Akali Azir Caitlyn Corki Diana Ezreal Fizz Fiora Graves Gnar Gragas Hecarim Irelia Jax Kassadin Katarina Khazix LeeSin Lissandra Lucian Malphite Nidalee Nocturne Quinn Sejuani Shaco Shen Shyvana Talon Thresh Tristana Tryndamere TwistedFate MonkeyKing XinZhao Yasuo Zac Zed Ziggs

The list you provided was quite small, so I expanded it to include more of the champions with that type of ability (some are ults, some champs still aren't listed, oh well.)

YOU BEEN WARNEDJul 21, 20151 votes

Give this CC type a small slow like 15%~25% and it will not be useless. I approve.

Phoenix Kotori Jul 21, 20151 votes

Idea for this "Weighted down", "Heavy Gravity", or something the affected champion is slowed by Y% for Z seconds and can not use any movement abilities for X seconds. (other than a speed boost or flash)

[{quoted}](name=YOU BEEN WARNED,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tbUfUB3J,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-07-21T13:57:28.483+0000)

Give this CC type a small slow like 15%~25% and it will not be useless. I approve.

See above it makes sense it would slow too.

Knight SoIaire Jul 21, 20151 votes

or just remove the flash and allance the game around the outcome

the only reason why we are dealing with this mobility owerdose is because mobility is underwalued in the powerbudget this happens mainly because its everywhere so you cant calculate how much advantage has a mobile guy ower immobile one

Rinky DinkyJul 21, 20151 votes

So a snare.

lmfao

Silents429Jul 21, 20151 votes

It's called a stun.

D1rtFarmerJul 21, 20151 votes

they should challenge themselves to invent a with a cripple mechanic with properties of a slow n root or rather a tether effect where the champ will get pulled back to x point where they were tethered after a specific amount of time.

D1rtFarmerJul 21, 20151 votes

or setting n anchor on the ground.. kindve like "leashing" an enemy champion to a specific location.

SaiannaJul 21, 20151 votes

Or even better allow them to use mobility, but they cannot move (like LB could distrortion whe she stand)

xXKUR0S4K1XxJul 21, 20151 votes

I actually agree. Mobility is just so strong that everyone that doesn't have it needs ridiculous damage or some amazing quirk (imagine Vlad without his pool, Morde without his shield or Heimer without his turrets). Now it doesn't need to be something that is incredibly op (if you talk about strict balance it's pretty much a numbers game). But more like something that gives you a tool to fight those champs. Of course I also hate the mobility creep in this game. Of course the point of it would be to have an ability that stops mobile champs without hurting immobile ones. A CC on a mobile champ stops the mobile champ but a CC on an immobile one almost always kills it.

Ironclad DragonJul 21, 20151 votes

Sort of like the Knockdown CC effect we have?

AnkhrJul 21, 20151 votes

we need more silence champs imo, of the 120~ champs only like 4 have a silence wtf

Dr PoroJul 21, 20151 votes

We need more champions with Roots. The last champion released that has a root ability is Jinx, while there are already 10 newer champs. Yet, you see knock ups and stuns in about every 2/3 new champions. Riot seems to prefer the "harsh CC" to make it feel significant. But this leads to the champion having to be balanced around this. A champion with roots can be very strong vs mobility champs, but will be weak against non-mobile champs that don't care about the ability to move or not.