http://i.imgur.com/FWPqtbx.png
The guy even accused me of scripting due to avoiding his bronze tier Qs.
Doesn't matter, ward hopping and red buff enough to guarantee kills.
But it's ok, because he falls off late game, 40 minutes in and he still one shots people with his totally low scaling ultimate.
That skin has to sell, amire Riot?
ModAcademy Kayn48 votesAre you fucking kidding me? That Lee's build has a lot of AD, of course he's going to be killing squishies. Lee falls off, not because of damage, because teams start grouping and denying him easy access to the easy 100-0 Carries.
Fed by Snu Snu12 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-28T23:34:33.106+0000)
Are you fucking kidding me? That Lee's build has a lot of AD, of course he's going to be killing squishies. Lee falls off, not because of damage, because teams start grouping and denying him easy access to the easy 100-0 Carries.
So he doesn't fall of.
That's not the definition of fall off. It's only a twisted way of saying he can be zoned out to fit the scaling argument instead.
By your definition, all assassins "fall off".
ShinkoMinori30 votesall assassins do fall off...
Fed by Snu Snu3 votesall assassins do fall off...
Except Orianna because the community likes to pretend she belongs in a different category. ;)
Legacy Hydralpha31 votesAre you saying Ori's an assassin? True assassins tend to have mobility.
koshkyra12 votes[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-29T00:53:00.683+0000)
Are you saying Ori's an assassin? True assassins tend to have mobility.
-ori main
Her ball is the assassin here. Its got an engage spell, burst damage, and a disengage spell. (QWE). What more does an assassin need?
Velzard of Koz8 votesSo Orianna is basically like the Wolf to Lamb, just decoration and you in fact play as a ball. Orbianna. LOL.
Fed by Snu Snu4 votesSo Orianna is basically like the Wolf to Lamb, just decoration and you in fact play as a ball. Orbianna. LOL.
Orianna is like controlling/attaching a Diana from a distance in terms of utility and all the damage is AoE and instant.
Fairyfleur4 votesBesides W, every spell has a travel time or startup.
GOthee1 votesyou ori man ain say oris ball is an assasin? LOL u better think about manin another champion part. ALso diana does dps with autos when she jumps to target and is actually an assassin
Fairyfleur2 votesI don't understand a word that you said.
Legacy Hydralpha15 votesWhat more does an assassin need?
To not have to have their existence tied to a squishy mage.
http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/925/494/218.png_large
Only Play Darius5 votes
chipndip16 votesYi is a carry, not an assassin.
Vayne and Twitch are marksmen with assassin elements.
SlowRoastedPoros3 votes"Carry," is definitely not a champion role.
" 
Isnt a marksman, shes a carry," sick logic there brah
chipndip14 votesLemme rephrase
Master Yi is a skirmisher, a sub-class primarily filled with melee AD carries.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesFall off can mean more than just falls off in damage. Pantheon falls off late game, not because he doesn't do damage, but if he goes full damage, he get's insta-deleted. Renekton falls off in the way you think he does, because he doesn't scale very well, but he can get really really tanky to ignore that fact.
Lee Sin falls off due to Teams no longer giving him easy access due to a Front line. Fall off is not a singular definition
Tik1151 voteshowever it could be argued that with Lee Sins mobility he could simply go around the back, if Lees frontline is crashing into theirs they won't be able to get to him.
Lee is one of if not the only champion that can quickly go around the back of the enemies (Outside of maybe Kass,Kha and Rengo) instagib a carry (Again, those 3) But also provide utility for their team and having enough tank to easily shrug off the retort from say, the mid laner.
and even then it's not a CONSISTENT falloff, Late game Renektons damage falls off vs other brusiers, that is a consistent weakness that's why you don't see people howling for Renekton nerfs, because he has a consistant weakness late game for his powerful early game, Lee however has an inconsistent weakness because if Lee jumps in from the side with a Banshees over the wall by mashing W ult Flash Q Q a squishy is basically dead and Lee gets chunked but the tankier builds Lees use is good enough to get him out, and I know your gonna say "CC him" well with a good lee it will be absurdly difficult to do and even if you do land the CC odds are your squishy is still gonna be kicked to the enemy team regardless because of how little delay his "Combo" has, you see it in higher play too Lee normally gets a kick off before the CC hits.
If anything Lee having such a powerful early game he SHOULD have the Renekton style weakness of doing crap for damage late game because a champion which is good on all stages of the game is an unbalanced champion
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesIf a Lee runs all the way behind your team, I believe that should count as an Outplay. I'd also like to point out that Renekton too, can still kill carries late game if he's allowed into the back line. He's just not as good against the Front-liner tanks and such than others. A non-ahead Lee isn't going to do much against Tanks late game, especially if building Bruiser.
dakota saturn5 votes[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-04-28T23:44:22.910+0000)
So he doesn't fall of.
That's not the definition of fall off. It's only a twisted way of saying he can be zoned out to fit the scaling argument instead.
By your definition, all assassins "fall off".
It's like how people always used to say LeBlanc falls off late game.
It's not from her damage somehow not oneshotting carries (it almost always does and did), it was because she couldn't get a clear shot at one without someone CCing her.
Slythion2 votesexcept lee doesnt always one-shot carries in the late game without it also being a suicide, because he would have had to build a lot of ad meaning he'd get deleted the moment he get into the backline (against competent teams of course)
Salron16 votesLee shouldn't be within ult range of you without your team CC chaining him
He "falls off" lategame because he has trouble getting to priority targets against competent teams and is mostly just a walking ultimate lategame
"Falling off" doesn't mean he should magically stop dealing damage when he has 4 fucking damage items against a squishy target
Fed by Snu Snu2 votes[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=000100000003,timestamp=2017-04-29T03:09:09.479+0000)
Lee shouldn't be within ult range of you without your team CC chaining him
He "falls off" lategame because he has trouble getting to priority targets against competent teams and is mostly just a walking ultimate lategame
"Falling off" doesn't mean he should magically stop dealing damage when he has 4 fucking damage items against a squishy target
Oh...weird how falling off actually means exactly that for other champions.
It almost seems like Lee is not allowed to play with the same rules as others.
And winning a game is not a boss themed teamfights of going through layers of minions where Lee might be ineffective, a lot of possible scenarios can happen and Lee can function just fine in many of them.
Because being able to knock up a whole team and deal close to 700 dmg is apparently not good enough. Other champions wont reach that number with a full rotation in teamfights. It's amazing how he gets to have so much team fights utility and yet called team fight ineffective.
Anidan7 votesYour summoner icon, that's diamond from Season 3, right? How the hell do you not know what it means to "fall off"?
Then again, people should probably take what you say in regards to the game with a grain of salt since you decided to say Orianna was an assassin, presumably just because she has a lot of burst potential like most other mages.
Theorchero3 votesYour summoner icon, that's diamond from Season 3, right? How the hell do you not know what it means to "fall off"?
Then again, people should probably take what you say in regards to the game with a grain of salt since you decided to say Orianna was an assassin, presumably just because she has a lot of burst potential like most other mages.
Either boosted or bought the account, probably.
Fed by Snu Snu2 votesEither boosted or bought the account, probably.
So anyone who doesn't agree with the fan club of champions who shouldn't get nerfed due to an imaginary skill requirement is boosted?
Right, no.
Theorchero4 votes[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=0001000000030000000000010000,timestamp=2017-04-29T11:43:21.055+0000)
So anyone who doesn't agree with the fan club of champions who shouldn't get nerfed due to an imaginary skill requirement is boosted?
Right, no.
No.
But having a complete lack of understanding of basic league concepts yet having an account at a high level at one point (which also is barely maintained at a significantly lower level) tends to indicate this. It's not the only possible explanation of course, but it is the most common one. Though in your case I'd say it's more along the lines of a disagreement in basic definitions.
Fed by Snu Snu1 votesNo.
But having a complete lack of understanding of basic league concepts yet having an account at a high level at one point (which also is barely maintained at a significantly lower level) tends to indicate this. It's not the only possible explanation of course, but it is the most common one. Though in your case I'd say it's more along the lines of a disagreement in basic definitions.
I'm not a circlejerker and have been playing this genre for over a decade. I will not change my definitions whenever Riot and their following likes to invent a fancy word for a role or redefine one to whatever suits them.
Theorchero11 votes[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=000100000003000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-29T12:30:51.972+0000)
I'm not a circlejerker and have been playing this genre for over a decade. I will not change my definitions whenever Riot and their following likes to invent a fancy word for a role or redefine one to whatever suits them.
Falling off has never just applied to damage being dealt. It's also how the champion functions. It's the same logic as how melee lane bullies like Darius fall off - if they can't access the backline (which happens quite a bit in teamfights) then they don't do shit.
Similarly with lee.
Honestly your attitude isn't that of someone who hates circlejerk as much as it someone who wants refuses to communicate in the same language, and when you realized you were wrong instead of adapting and acting like a mature adult and apologizing or clarifying, you stomp your feet and act like a petulant child.
Get off your high horse dude.
Fed by Snu Snu1 votesFalling off has never just applied to damage being dealt. It's also how the champion functions. It's the same logic as how melee lane bullies like Darius fall off - if they can't access the backline (which happens quite a bit in teamfights) then they don't do shit.
Similarly with lee.
Honestly your attitude isn't that of someone who hates circlejerk as much as it someone who wants refuses to communicate in the same language, and when you realized you were wrong instead of adapting and acting like a mature adult and apologizing or clarifying, you stomp your feet and act like a petulant child.
Get off your high horse dude.
No, it's simple. here, let me lay it out for you.
You say that Lee is in the same category as champions like Darius, Pantheon, Xin, etc, who lose their ability to reach the priority targets in teamfights.
You make that claim despite Lee having extremely more mobility and having the ability to end a fight before it even starts by flanking and bringing the priority target to the front.
Thus I say that your argument is false exactly due to that ability, which means that he does not fall off in the way that you describe him to.
Then you say that if I don't accept your premise, it means I am boosted, lack game understanding, etc.
At which point the only appropriate reply is "bullshit", which is in accordance to the level of your previous statement.
Simple as that.
Theorchero4 votes[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=00010000000300000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-29T13:10:38.354+0000)
No, it's simple. here, let me lay it out for you.
You say that Lee is in the same category as champions like Darius, Pantheon, Xin, etc, who lose their ability to reach the priority targets in teamfights.
You make that claim despite Lee having extremely more mobility and having the ability to end a fight before it even starts by flanking and bringing the priority target to the front.
Thus I say that your argument is false exactly due to that ability, which means that he does not fall off in the way that you describe him to.
Then you say that if I don't accept your premise, it means I am boosted, lack game understanding, etc.
At which point the only appropriate reply is "bullshit", which is in accordance to the level of your previous statement.
Simple as that.
Doesn't happen against competent teams in the late game. Lee loses his ability to flank because they fucking pay attention.
Fed by Snu Snu1 votesDoesn't happen against competent teams in the late game. Lee loses his ability to flank because they fucking pay attention.
I guess that must be why they stop picking Lee Sin in higher tiers, because they are so afraid of losing their playmaking ability later on.
Oh wait...
Theorchero4 votes[{quoted}](name=Fed by Snu Snu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=0001000000030000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-29T13:48:27.554+0000)
I guess that must be why they stop picking Lee Sin in higher tiers, because they are so afraid of losing their playmaking ability later on.
Oh wait...
There's so many flaws in your argument.
Lee is picked in higher tier levels of play for his early game map control and his kit allows him decisive victories. He's still useful late game via his kicks, but that's it. If he goes full damage he's going to be obliterated. He still has good damage with bruiser items, but not enough to 100-0 a carry instantly. With supports being how powerful they are, Lee has trouble assassinating adcs vs a competent team.
Plus, the meta is very fast right now. Late game barely exists. Remember, league used to last 30-45 minutes on average, sometimes much longer, and in those games Lee's damage falls off quite heavily because he can't invest in armor pen as easily as other ad assassins can.
The reason Lee is picked in high elo has nothing to do with him "not falling off" as you claim. Quit being a jackass.
chipndip13 votesThis is why Diamond from 4 years ago doesn't hold weight. If you're good at the game, you need to stay good.
Fed by Snu Snu1 votesThis is why Diamond from 4 years ago doesn't hold weight. If you're good at the game, you need to stay good.
Must be the reason why I'm steadily climbing then...is it your first season being diamond and you have the need to gloat about it and try to diminish others?
It's not even hard, might go for more depending on how well my mechanics reach their peak again, since they are still rusty.
chipndip13 votesSecond year being Diamond actually.
Doesn't change the fact that you said something incredibly dumb to the point where everyone, regardless of elo, is calling you out on it. "Falling off" is a matter of general game strength, not damage output, otherwise we'd say tanks fall off at 10 minutes, even though there's late game scaling tanks like Sejuani and Shen vs. early game tanks like Poppy. Or that Renekton never falls off at all because he can also run squishies over if he ever gets to them in the later game stages.
Fed by Snu Snu3 votesSecond year being Diamond actually.
Doesn't change the fact that you said something incredibly dumb to the point where everyone, regardless of elo, is calling you out on it. "Falling off" is a matter of general game strength, not damage output, otherwise we'd say tanks fall off at 10 minutes, even though there's late game scaling tanks like Sejuani and Shen vs. early game tanks like Poppy. Or that Renekton never falls off at all because he can also run squishies over if he ever gets to them in the later game stages.
I do not care about tyrany of the majority.
If Lee Sin ever gets nerfed, the sheeple will switch anthems and be like "well, he didn't fall off hard enough", etc. Whatever Riot gives as a reason, the same people will be here to parrot it.
It's always the same thing, people claiming about oh so hard it is to pull things off. As if the difficulty holds any merit when it comes to just having the ability to do it. Putting him in the same category as other champions who don't even have the ability, that's how pretentious the Lee Sin defence squad is.
chipndip13 votesAnd you're so pretentious you're basically ignoring the right answer because of your own ego. Most people HATE Lee, but everyone knows that Lee's strongest in the early game. The term "fall off" is used to say that "Lee's general usefulness as the game progresses decreases, rather than flat-lining or increasing". That's it. Some champs scale into late. Some champs peak mid and coast. Some champs start strong and steadily fall out of favor. Lee's the third one. Either he lacks impact for landing his combo because he's sturdier (and he's still vulnerable to dying) or he dies on his way in or out because he's flimsy. Meanwhile, during the early game, Lee Sin doesn't have to deal with large groups, so he jumps in, kills someone, and dashes out over and over, hoping to snowball and end it quickly or pass kills to his teammates with better scaling. Hell, in this thread, the Lee you're whining about lost with 24 freaking kills. Why? Because it means less on Lee as a champion. Imagine if that was a 24 kill Master Yi. You'd have been done for.
This is simple logic. If you're too thick-headed to get it, then it's just one more embarrassing subject you'd do good to not bring up in future conversation unless you want to be flamed for being boosted. This is me explaining this in full just one time for you.
macromite2 voteswhen panth falls off, he is lucky to continue killing targets.
When lee falls off, he retains normal assassination power.
yup, seems balanced.
You can't defend lee, lee is LITERALLY a cancer in the game, he has been essentially killing it since his release.
Lauchmelder6 votesThe question is: Why does he need a goddamn nuke on his ult?
His Ult does 200/400/600 (!) PLUS 200% bonus AD, and the people the ulted player hits on his way back get the same goddamn damage PLUS 12/15/18% of the initial target's bonus health.
Play full AD Lee Sin. Kick a Mundo into their team and check for survivors.
Theorchero2 votes[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tW248N4n,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-04-29T07:39:50.680+0000)
The question is: Why does he need a goddamn nuke on his ult?
His Ult does 200/400/600 (!) PLUS 200% bonus AD, and the people the ulted player hits on his way back get the same goddamn damage PLUS 12/15/18% of the initial target's bonus health.
Play full AD Lee Sin. Kick a Mundo into their team and check for survivors.
That's the only legitimate criticism Lee has. He has so much damage and mobility and survivability in the jungle. He honestly needs to get his spellvamp in the jungle looked at because he hardly takes damage. If he's going to be so dominating via kit then he needs real risk when he goes into the lane to gank. Same with graves.
Orangesilk2 votesExcept that Graves is entirely designed around Feast or Famine, since he doesn't scale all that well in damage and has next to no utility he either gets massively fed, or gets behind and the game becomes a 4v5.
Lee when behind still has utility in his ult, relevant tankiness, and so on.
Silly Neeko9 votesNew to Xerath from mastery points.... You have 0 health items with BARELY any armor..... But yet you dont know why you died so hard if he caught you?
Nanuk Pihoqahiak16 votesUh, he had Zhonyas which after natural scaling would put him around 80ish to 100 armor on a mage. What other items would you advocate him building?
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesWouldn't matter anyways, Lee had a lot of AD from his build.
Nanuk Pihoqahiak5 votesMy point to the guy was more: What other items is he going to build? There's shit itemization for mages in regards to armor.
OHminus6 votesLet's see the replay and see if you managed to dodge all the Qs.
Not to be an ass, but this is probably selective memory at its finest.
JJI7449 votesAsk and ye shall receive. It should be the top result currently. I may actually watch this myself and get back to you on how Lee Sin did with Qs, cause my "sleep in late plan" was ruined.
EDIT: OP definately got hit by a couple of non-ult Qs, 2 as of 25 minutes, and I can't be bothered to keep watching. And Lee lands a lot of Qs overall, OP did juke quite a few, but his teammates have not.
Having actually watched Lee Sin's clear, I do have to say this though: that champions jungle-clear is bullshit. Riot has gone on about making junglers have defined strengths, but Lee seems to have effectively everything.
Gank power early, mobility, gank power-spike with ult, skirmishing, clear speed, and sustain; Lee Sin is pretty dam high in all categories.
Requiemsfire5 votesWhen a mage expects to nuke everyone from across the map and tank 4 AD item melee fighter with zero defensive items.
Lauchmelder7 votesI am a simple man.
I see mage haters bitch about something completely irrelevant in a thread talking about something entirely different, I downvote.
