What is the point of Liandrys

Rozair··3 votes·1,180 views

It doesnt counter high health or resist champions even when combined with item 3135. It is litterally useless as an item.

30 Comments

FantasySniper2 votes

Yeah, the % current health passive is trash. It's only good if you can abuse it over extended periods of time.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Cassiopeia Sssssssshhhhhh enough said

Kilanost1 votes

AurelionSol Amumu Anivia Annie AurelionSol Brand Cassiopeia Fiddlesticks Heimerdinger Karthus Malzahar Mordekaiser Rumble Sejuani Swain Teemo Zac Zyra

I would put it on any one of the above champions without batting an eyelash

FantasySniper2 votes

Anivia Brand Cassiopeia Malzahar Zyra ^ Are the only that actually build it as core. AurelionSol Karthus Rumble Swain Teemo ^The only ones that can build it as core, but usually shouldn't if they can afford better items. Amumu Sejuani Zac ^ Are tanks that build it as a minor damage item almost never. Heimerdinger Mordekaiser Fiddlesticks ^ Are in the shitter anyways, so it's really hard to claim they "succeed" with it.

Kilanost1 votes

if you're playing amumu, sej, or zac without a liandrys, you're doing it wrong.

Its practically mandatory on rumble. Teemo shrooms become nukes with it. Sol would be a beast with it. and its fantastic on zzrot/banner heimer.

you cray cray son.

FantasySniper2 votes

If you're playing Amumu, Sej, or Zac with a Liandry's, you're doing it wrong. (Innane logic with no explanation ftw) It's a rare, end-game item on all of them, and really only worth if it you've already bought Frozen Heart (because attack speed slows count as movement-impairment).

Yeah, meant to put Rumble in top section.

Buying it for the sake of Teemo's shrooms is a mistake.

  1. Teemo infrequently lays down his shrooms.
  2. By it's very nature as a trap, it's never guaranteed that the enemy will set them off when you want them to.
  3. You could build Luden's Echo and make it a legitimate nuke.
  4. The only other ability of Teemo's that proc's Liandry's is a single-target burst spell that, again, benefits more from Luden's.

Aurelion Sol usually builds it as his third item, and only benefits from it because he builds two CC-centric items just before it. It's synergy with a build he's been shoe-horned into instead of synergy with his actual kit.

Heimerdinger is "fantastic" with the Zz'Rot/Banner combo because it's the Zz'Rot/Banner combo, there is no mention of Liandry's ever being relevant, let alone necessary to the success of that cheese build.

Kilanost1 votes

You are cracking me up with how defensive you're being over this. If you dont want to build it, fine.

Liandrys trash. buff pls, lol

FantasySniper2 votes

That's not even "defensive", bruh.

The whole point of telling you all of that was to teach you. Here's hoping you learned.

Kilanost1 votes

Ok since we're teaching:

You are wrong about what you said about Teemo shrooms because of the following:

  • Any teemo that isn't playing teemo just to troll will use shrooms in the middle of combat to help him kite. Teemo's shrooms are not simply an annoyance, they're a combat tool when employed by anyone that can play him well.
  • It's never guaranteed if you just throw it down randomly. If you're being chased or there's a massive team fight, that bastard is going to go off.
  • Liandry's outdamage's Ludens. The math is below somewhere. In addition it provides 300 health.
  • The Liandry's proc is a dot over 3 seconds. That proc is reapplied by things that are also dots. so a 3 second dot that applies liandrys's will reapply the passive for a total of 5 seconds of liandrys proc at 2% max health a piece for 10% max health. If the ability also applies a slow for the first 3 seconds (which i believe is the duration of the slow on teemo's shroom) those are doubled so the first 3 Liandrys ticks are 4% current health each = 12% current health plus the last 2 ticks at 2% current health for a total of 16% current health on top of its own damage which is considerable.

More teaching about Amumu, Zac, Sej: People who can spam abilities or have a consistent damage "aura" make powerful use of liandrys because again, they can reset the passive dot repeatedly.

  • On Amumu with 5 levels in his w (despair) and a Liandry's: 5 seconds in his despair aura deal 4% max health damage + 24 damage per second. Thats 20% max health +120. Then you add in the Liandrys dot which gets reapplied through out the duration for a total of 7 seconds of liandrys dot at 2% current health each for a total of 14% current health. If amumu built a frozen heart, double that to 24% current health from the liandrys passive alone:
  • zac with max cdr can use his w every 3 seconds which means everytime the Liandry's passive is finished, he can reapply it, essentially keeping it constantly running throughout prolonged combat. And since he is a tank, combat should be prolonged. This is especially true when he is disrupting combat with his ultimate (which by the way also impairs movement and applies the double liandry's dot. Throw in the fact that zac has an 3 different movement impairments in his kit, he makes excellent use of the Liandry's passive.
    *Sej is the CC queen and can constantly apply a slow from long distances with her e. Her q, e, and r are all movement impairing abilities. Her w is a 4 second damage aura after the initial attack that can be constantly running at max level with decent cdr.
  • All 3 of these champions can keep the liandrys passive up indefinitely consistently dealing the double damage for movement impairment. If you're waiting to build Liandry's until your last item, of course it will feel weak. Your enemies are close to or at max item and at max items which is the point in the game where tanks have too much MR for you to deal damage, ADCs will melt you before you can apply more stacks, and generally speaking, tanks become significantly less relevant in team fights due to people being able to melt them. You think Liandrys is bad because you don't know when to build it and how it works

Aurelion Sol: The fact that sol has an ability that is free that can constantly apply liandrys makes it a no brainer on him. Even if Sol is oom and can't expand his stars, he can still be applying %health damage AT 4% PER SECOND because, as you so rightly pointed out, he probably built rylais first. Imagine if sunfire cape did 4% current health damage on top of its base damage. Thats what you give Sol with a Liandrys. If you don't think that is broken, you are dense.

Finally, my favorite little troll Heimerdinger: If you are building zzrot, banner Heimer, you're not building big damage. But you are building defense. You'll have a rylais to apply movement impairment. So the longer you live, the more Liandrys double stacks you apply while you kite your enemy through your turrets and your banner minions and zzrot take their turret. NOW even if you're not doing the zzrot/banner thing, you still have a Rylai's. You can still kite and you are still constantly applying liandrys double stacks from your turrets.

Oh and just a basic difference between the two items: You can constantly apply the Liandry's passive without waiting to build stacks or an internal cooldown. This is not true for Ludens which you think is the better buy apparently. Its not. Liandry's is flat out superior to luden's on most champions. The only time I would argue against this is if you can make very good use of the movement speed supplied by Ludens.

Hows that for learning? Get schooled, son.

FantasySniper2 votes

You don't understand how Liandry's works. It does current health percentage damage. Not max, current. A Liandry's proc by itself barely deals 6/12% max health damage (before resistances) over the duration if the target started at 100% health. To put that into perspective, it would take 35/17 seconds of Liandry's ticks alone for it to deal just 50% of someone's health. That's a long-ass time. It usually does much less because every ability hit makes Liandry's deal even less damage. To make this even clearer for you, the damage it deals has diminishing returns.

Tanks can't build Liandry's before their 5th or 6th item slot. They need survivability in order to take advantage of the passive.

Like I said, Sol only builds it because it works well with the CC-centric items he has to have already bought. If he built Morello/Luden's like everyone else, Liandry's would be sub-optimal as a third item.

And again, like I said, the Zz'Rot/Banner Heimerdinger build doesn't "work" because of Liandry's. See the latter part of my explanation for Aurelion Sol above as to that phenomenon.

Kilanost1 votes

I understand exactly how it works which is why I said CURRENT every single time i referred to Liandrys.

And yes, there are diminishing returns, but the initial returns are so incredibly high that is fine. You have to remember its a passive and it can be applied CONSTANTLY. You also forget that liandrys only has 20 less AP, gives you 15 magic pen, and gives you 300 health at a price that is 100 gold cheaper. The magic pen actually makes it a BEAST early game item.

Your arguments for heimer and Sol were refuted. Please see the part of the argument above where I explained how OP a sunfire cape with a %health burn would be.

AGAIN, someone below has provided a link proving mathematically that Liandrys is superior in damage alone not even accounting for benefit of the health stat.

As is said, get schooled, son.

Kilanost1 votes

Excellent. This is exactly the kind of thing I want people to continue to think so I can keep my favorite AP item unnerfed.

YES, LIANDRYS = TRASH, buff pls. lol

Modi2 votes

That first tick on a fresh full hp enemy is 2% max hp damage (pre MR). I have to agree, It's trash [slayer-jinx-wink]

woodvsmurph1 votes

You probably also have rylai's or natural slow in your kit -- making it 4%. It's decent magic pen early on, it's a fairly affordable item, it scales somewhat with the game, although I wish it still had the higher ap and hp before it's most recent change.

Kilanost1 votes

I build it on tanks and pair it with Frozen Heart. Fun fact, frozen heart passive counts as movement impairment lol.

Modi1 votes

HMMMMMMMM I think I just now see an new build for Naut: item 3116 item 3068 item 3110 item 3065 item 3111 item 3151

Kilanost1 votes

No need to even bother with the rylais at that rate. build a rot.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

i love it on maokai... combined with his W at max rank his damage is so op lol

Snowman Arc1 votes

Like, max health instead of current health PLEASE.

what you deserve1 votes

it's more for killing squishies mate

Kilanost1 votes

No, its for killing everyone and their first born children.

Salron1 votes

http://www.lolking.net/news/mid-game-itemization-liandrys-vs-ludens Liandry's outdamages Ludens in every scenario while also being 100g cheaper and giving defensive stats

Snowman Arc1 votes

Exactly, the only thing the Luden's offers is more mobility through the MS buff, which is quite substantial, and more burst early vs low MR champions (the 120 ish bonus damage from the proc is quite nice).

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Cassiopeia item 3151 vs tanky af comps, enough said.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Watch FNCA versus ESG on day 1 on EUCS Qualifiers.

Snowman Arc1 votes

What do you consider a strong AP item? Luden's? Deathcap? Morello? Let's compare:

Deathcap: 3800 gold / 120 AP / 35% bonus AP Build path = hard Luden: 3200 gold / 100 AP / 10% MS / Passive Build path = hard Morello: 2900 gold / 100 AP / 20% CDR / GW / Mana Regen Build path = flexible Liandrys: 3100 gold / 80 AP / 15 Magic Pen / 300 Health / Passive Build path = flexible

If my numbers are correct, I can say that, for its price, Liandrys is pretty strong, at any stage of the game, especially when used on the correct champions. For example, if paired with sorc shoes early, you get +38 magic pen (with the runes too). If the enemy squishies don't have MR runes, or even if they do, you will pretty much do true damage to them, which is a lot when you consider to be level 9 and have your basic ability maxed out. The base damage + the AP scaling is a lot to 100-0 any squishy at that stage, so yeah, it makes it pretty powerful. At the same time, you can be slightly tankier with those extra 300 HP and it's buildpath is quite flexible (most expensive item is Blasting Wand 850, and the recipe for 750 I think).

Later in the game, it can also be a tank buster, dealing 2% of their current health per second. If the enemy has 4k HP, this means that you will do at start bonus 80 damage per second (before resistances). Also, if they are at least slowed, it's doubled to 160. Maybe it's not the best for burst champions, or the flat magic pen falls off later in the game, at least vs tanks, but it's still quite effective (better than the Luden's Echo passive damage), and it's so good on DoT champions, like Malzahar, Cassiopeia, Brand, or low-CD spam mages like Ryze, Viktor, Orianna.

Also, the item synergizes really well with Rylai's, which in total grant 600 more HP making you even tankier, and apply the enhanced passive of Liandry's, and all that for just 5700 gold. Maybe you won't enjoy this item on Leblanc, Katarina or whatever other champion of the same kind, but DoT champions are really identified by this item.

GemCrash1 votes

I build it pretty much solely for the flat magic pen

BloodyTompon1 votes

The point is it acts as a release valve to a meta that isn't in favour: High health low MR.

jpguy9021 votes

Singed Singed Singed

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