A simple defense of CertainlyT

ModKnightsKemplar··20 votes·2,627 views

CertainlyT consistently delivers on champion fantasy. Many of Riot's designers do a good job of this, but when you need a unique champ to hit the theme, you call CT. Allow me to prove this to you one champ at a time. We will exclude the minor reworks for what I hope are obvious reasons (Riot more or less admitted they don't work). All the following champs were made from scratch or given a GU by CT (Zyra was a group effort, for full disclosure).

Darius This dude is BRUTAL. You can feel it in the his kit. His execute was one of the first ones to have this awesome, visceral feel to it, and is still one of the best. Playing Darius, you feel like a Juggernaut. Part of that is hard work from animators, too, but the kit really nailed it. CT gets credit for that.

Thresh There isn't a champ in the game with as much lockdown as Thresh. More reliable lockdown, sure, but nothing ruins your day quite like getting hit with Thresh Q, then E, followed up by R. He's named the Chain Warden and he delivers excellently on that fantasy.

Zyra I did not think gardening could be a fun thing in League of Legends. But when you play Zyra, you actually get mad at people who kill your plants. It really makes you want to strangle[thorns] them. There's nothing else like it in the game.

Yasuo He's popular for a reason. Not much else to say here; just a smooth, smooth kit. Just like you would expect of a samurai with power over the wind. Complain all you want, the kit is fun. And thematic.

Kalista My personal least favorite on the list, but I can still admit you get some good vibes from stacking a bunch of autos and finishing with a satisfying rend. I see the appeal, and I think she satisfies her fantasy very well.

Warwick Lauded by many since launch as the most successful rework (and the most popular one with players, according to polling), you really feel like a bloodhound playing Warwick. CertainlyT nailed the feeling of chasing down a bleeding opponent and finishing them off. His best work to date, imo.

Zoe Getting killed by her insane Q damage is maddening, but what else would you expect from a champ that is supposed to be a trickster goddess? It's a kit that expects you to pull off some planning; two skillshots, and one of them is slow. I'm not claiming she wasn't ever OP, but she's thematically awesome.


Akali And now we have hit the inspiration for the post. People are complaining about this champ before she's even hit PBE, and no wonder. She's got a very unique mechanic that looks like it has potential to be frustrating. Of course CT (and the rest of the team) knew there would be flame over it. That didn't stop them, because they remember that the entire draw of League is the champions.

When I watched that Gameplay trailer, I immediately knew this champ was gonna feel good. Dodging in and out of that shroud looks like it captures exactly the feeling that the first iteration of Akali failed to do convincingly. Yes, it'll be annoying to play against sometimes. But it will produce some serious highs, both as Akali and as Akali's opponent. Imagine dragging Akali out of that swirl with a well-aimed Darius E and cutting her down with R. Tell me you won't feel like a rockstar.

I can't wait to see what Faker can do on this champ. Yeah, yeah, LC$ memes, but seriously, take a minute to think about how unique that ability is, and all the awesome interactions with other champs. If you can't get hyped about cool champs anymore, and you're complaining that League isn't fun anymore... maybe you're the problem. That's what this game is all about.

CertainlyT, I know you understand that. You make cool champs because you understand what made this game popular in the first place. Keep it up, and know that some of us really appreciate it.

37 Comments

L Psy Kongroo8 votes

The enjoyment level of a champion's player shouldn't be prioritized over the enjoyment level of a champion's opponent. Yes, CT does often make unique champions whose kits feel thematically appropriate. But this almost always comes at the expense of balance. Kalista and Yasuo in particular are absolutely horrible to play against if they're even moderately strong. Zoe's play pattern is as toxic as old Nidalee, who was changed for the exact same reason. Furthermore, the person playing the champion should ideally be having as much fun as their opponent. CTs champions don't take this into account. All he cares about is whether his champions feel fun to play AS, which creates a toxic environment that discourages people from playing the game.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

The enjoyment level of a champion's player shouldn't be prioritized over the enjoyment level of a champion's opponent.

Akali's new shroud reflects that, imo. I think it'll be fun to play against when you're on even footing with her. When she's really ahead, it'll be cancer, of course, but most champs are cancer when they get very ahead.

Remember that it isn't his job to do live balance; it sounds like a cop-out, but it's true. The flip-side of this design is to risk having a stat-check champ, and we have plenty of those, too. We just don't have a single designer to pin it on. He's got a worse reputation than he deserves, imo.

Bijeesny4 votes

{quoted}

Akali's new shroud reflects that, imo. I think it'll be fun to play against when you're on even footing with her. When she's really ahead, it'll be cancer, of course, but most champs are cancer when they get very ahead.

It doesn't matter how even or uneven you are against her in lane, the fact that she can ignore your towers, your LINES OF DEFENSE, will be a broken and toxic ability, if it won't have massive cd. The fact she's using energy, so she doesn't lose any resources unlike mana users is even more frustrating.

Remember that it isn't his job to do live balance; it sounds like a cop-out, but it's true. The flip-side of this design is to risk having a stat-check champ, and we have plenty of those, too. We just don't have a single designer to pin it on. He's got a worse reputation than he deserves, imo.

It's true that he doesn't balance the game, but he should think about the interactions in the game when creating stuff like this.

About your post...Put yourself into perspective of some1 who just wants to grind ranked. Do you think players like these give any fucks about champion thematics? Ofc not, they only play FoTM or champ they like to play (because of their kit and/or playstyle).

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I don't have to think hard about someone who likes grinding ranked. I like grinding ranked. And I also care about thematics.

Because again, this game is supposed to be fun. Like it or not, lots of people play because these champs are compelling and fun. It's good for the game to have champs like that.

If you want all the competition to be the same in your competitive experience, Fornite and PUBG are all the rage rn. What League offers is a diversity of playstyles. Variety is good.

Bijeesny3 votes

{quoted}

I don't have to think hard about someone who likes grinding ranked. I like grinding ranked. And I also care about thematics.

Because again, this game is supposed to be fun. Like it or not, lots of people play because these champs are compelling and fun. It's good for the game to have champs like that.

I'm pretty sure getting fucked by akali under your own tower will be tons of fun :)

Champions can be 'compelling and fun' without bullshit abilities and mechanics, while also fillfilling a certain theme. The issue with CT is that he's so focused on champion thematic to the point where he doesn't think about how it will impact the game. We've seen many times how his champs oppressive can be. In both casual play (Yasuo , Darius to an extent) and pro play (Zoe , Kalista , Zyra )

To sum it up, CT is the guy who will make sure you feel like a champion you're playing, which is fine, as long as he doesn't make them broken af in any way.

Infernape6 votes

There isn't a champ in the game with as much lockdown as Thresh.

AHEM Nautilus

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Fair point. We'll call it a tie ;)

Silly Neeko2 votes

Leona the lockdown queen.

Infernape1 votes

Leona and Nautilus shared skin when?

Silly Neeko1 votes

Naut is not a lockdown queen. Hes more of a dredge queen. Leona has shorter cooldowns than Naut and therefore has more CC and has to hit something that isnt like half a lane wide xD

HalcyonDweller1 votes
Edit: nevermind my attempt to fix it to show didn't work. ignore me.
Infernape1 votes

I have failed. I must commit ritual Sudoku.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Nuuu, you have so much to live for!

Kai Guy6 votes

Honestly it pisses me off that because he made the mistake to interact with some players about his design decisions everybody treats him like some kind of special exception to riots devs. CT ALONE MAKES TOXIC CHAMPIONS THAT BREAK THE GAME EVERY TIME. Any time any champion he made is in a good spot its just non stop tilt and rage. Its garbage, One or 2 champions he made run a meta FIRE CT RRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGEEE WTF RRRIIIITTOOOO...

The dev that made Teemo one of the games most hated champion? Jax Singed Nasus Chogath . Clearly this guy hates top lane being fun for people who don't play his champs. The guy who made Kassadin ? He also made Ahri Malzahar Vladimir . Obnxious mobility or Point and click burst? The guy who made Caitlyn also made Tristana and KogMaw . Right clicks To win and Gross enchanced range? WTF BBQ WAFFLES. The dude who made MasterYi made Nocturne JarvanIV Amumu . Hey,,, jungler came to your lane. your dead. The dev who made Blitzcrank also made Ezreal . Just personal hate for blitz on my end, That's my least favorite champion in the game, and EZ has been an issue in almost every single season?

Every one of thses champions has run a meta, has generated hate, has had players Bitching about their kits on the boards. Yet odds are most folks cant tell you the dev who made it, that devs not on a watch list for pure hate.

Oh and literally every champion listed? all the same dev. (sorry Colt Hallam, I don't actually hate you or your work, you just made some frusturating champs. Also to be fair to colt, this list does not account properly account for reworks and is intended to trigger players for dramatic effect.)

Look CT makes champions with the intent to reward players for nailing their thematic and many of them have strong skill related mechanics that cover weaknesses, but its rarely allowed to be to strong of a cover. Yas can WW, yas has a passive shield, this allows him to be in mid lane, and bot lane, but when playing vs him? If you took the time to learn him and get good you know his windows, you can play around his kit. Zoe is annoying. Rest of them are in reasonably fair spots or weak.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

RiotJag (designed camille kai'sa aatrox) and Riot Xypherous (designed Fizz Riven Renekton and other stuff) did not interact with the community except Xypherous a VERY LONG time ago

and I hate them both more than CertainlyT

ChargeItDownMid5 votes

[deleted]

ModKnightsKemplar3 votes

There are plenty of other champs that deliver on their theme really well.

My point is that I think CT can do it extremely well while balancing the most unique mechanics in the game. And unique mechanics are good for the game, despite the fact that many players don't like them. Every time someone says "X is the only champ that can do Y," I think, "cool. It's good when champs aren't all interchangeable based on who fits the meta slightly better."

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

[deleted]

D357R0Y3R1 votes

{quoted}

That is what I don't get. How exactly does his champions deliver on their theme any better?

he explained it in the op also ct champions arent the only champions that can deliver a good thematic, but there are a number of champions who DO NOT and that's why ct is good

Kai Guy2 votes

Before i make a pass at it can i ask for you to more clearly define regular champions? Cuz I can list a lot of disappointing thematic to execution, AurelionSol and Kindred comes to mind. Don't hate the kit but thematic to gameplay? Bleeeh/

Elise Jayce Nidalee Karma Brand Syndra Kaisa Kayn LeeSin Lulu RekSai Renekton Ryze (some iterations) high # of abilitys crammed into a kits are not a CT trademark?

420 grams5 votes

Theres a difference between fun for the player and fun for everyone in the game.

Silly Neeko4 votes

That is the problem exactly. They are so involved in the "win win win" that nobody tries to have fun anymore. Its nearly tabooed to even try having fun anymore unless you are in a team and even then they are likely to get upset with you unless you stomped your lane and then the rest of their team.... then youre the hero and so good and all that.

It is really kind of sad that people are so insistant on just bashing everything and complaining about everything yet they completely miss some of the big things.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Don't get me wrong, I like to win. And I always try my best to do so, regardless of external factors.

But I understand the difference between playing competitively and letting this game run my life. It's not a big deal to lose to a Zoe every once in awhile to me. If that player wasn't beating me on Zoe, they'd be beating me on Zed, Xerath, Twisted Fate, or A Sol. I just don't see it being that big of a deal.

Silly Neeko1 votes

Yes but you can have fun winning or losing. There will always be a winner and loser. Im not saying go and feed and troll if you find that fun.... but playing the game and fighting and using your kit to outplay them etc.

Its just sad that people will flame you and rage at you and try to put you down simply because the enemy outplayed you. Especially if it is because you are targetted by the enemy team (such as enemy mid and jungle and top all diving your top laner and you are mid or bott.... then you die and they are like "i pinged they were missing you stupid *****" or whatever). Like, what is it that person is supposed to do? Sit in base?

If they outplay you then like you said, they would do it on nearly any champ they are familiar with. If they beat you it is more often that they know how to play against your champion and what the player is going to do.... rather than their own kit. I mean yeah, they use their kit, but to hit the kit they need to know the enemy more than they know themselves.

BLACK REALM GOD4 votes

i dont care if i get downvoted. i love akali's rework. i've watched every video of her and it gets me pumped seeing her jump around, vanish, flank, and finish with style. and im glad they changed her outfit to what it is now. her tatoos are unique to her and provide something that allows the user to look at that feels organic and not just a block of green. it's textured. her run looks smoother and more organic for a sprinter. the use of her abilities actually make her feel like a ninja assassin fantasy wise. im a huge tenchu fan and seeing her do what she does in the videos makes me ecstatic. I WISH SHEN COULD BE THAT COOL!

and honestly we shouldnt give CertainlyT all the credit. the team that worked on akali deserves credit equally.

omg imagine what kennen will be like O.o

Oleandervine4 votes

Akali doesn't have unique mechanics. She has mechanics that will break the fucking game entirely. She has mobility in her E that basically gives her a dash that can span ANY CONCEIVABLE DISTANCE (I went from inner allied turret to the edge of the enemy turret mid with the dash on a marked target), and her R STUNS ENEMIES WITH THE FIRST VAULT, AND EXECUTES WITH THE SECOND. And then there's cancer cloud, which allows you to basically ignore turrets as you murder enemies under their only line of defense. Oh, and it extends its duration each time you exit it and each time you enter it. CertainlyT doesn't innovate and make fun champions. He makes champions that ignore the rules, disregard how the game is intended to function and be balanced, and he overloads the shit out of kits. He should NEVER BE ALLOWED TO SPEARHEAD KIT DESIGN. He can start the process, and be the kit concept artist, but for fuck's sake, the entire team who isn't him should then gut his design and pull out all the extra damage here and there, the microstuns, the obscures, and everything else that defies the game before his designs go live. This new Akali is disgusting, plain and simple. She will get Kalista'd immediately if she is not gutted and reigned in before she leaves the PBE.

DrCyanide4 votes

CertainlyT's champions would be lovely in a PvE or PvNPC game. The problem is that League is not a PvE or PvNPC game.

If I want to enjoy playing against one of his champions one of two things needs to happen:

  1. My opponent needs to perform below the skill level of that champ.
  2. I need to play an equally infuriating champion.

Now, don't get me wrong. Every champion should have something about them that's infuriating. CT's champions just cause more than the average amount of frustration to play against.

Unstoppable Monk2 votes

This thread is a better VS. event than Garen vs Darius and Riven vs Yasuo combined.

Vlada Cut2 votes

Let me correct you on Darius. This guy is OUTDATED, you can feel it in his old wacky animations.* Bye.

D357R0Y3R2 votes

Lucian main here, always loved certainlyt for everything he did

except kalista

I don't really have anything to think about that champion, even when I try to play her I don't get the point of the champion she's infamous for her mobility but in reality Lucian is not only more mobile, but her passive makes her attack speed slowed by movement speed slows which ruins her so hard She was never balanced, and while people think Yasuo is anti-fun he was at least balanced for a lot of time

She was always a problem in pro

looking forward the akali vgu, I hope they put Certainlyt in the VGU team forever I think he's more competent there

Ceaser1011 votes

@Knights kemplar I'd like to address a few points of yours.

  1. yes CT has created some well balanced, skillful, and entertaining champions, albeit slightly more annoying than others. These ones are like thresh, zyra, ww(rework) and darius(yes Darius he has tons of outplay potential. Yes seriously he does stfu bronze commenters).

2)CT has also created several unbalanced and oppressive champions that are oppressive due to their kits and can't properly be balanced through Stat checks. That's not on the balance team it's on the champion designers to create a champion that has evenish counterplay on both sides. For some of his work though, it just isn't true. Yasuo, akali(the reworked one in pbe), kalista, Zoe( to just name the few you've mentioned) all can disregard the counterplay of opponents. Not to get into too much detail here but wind wall completely negates a lot of counterplay for Mages, kalista(unless nerfed to the ground) has always been God tier in pro play for obvious reasons, Zoe is basically what nidalee used to be and we all know how oppressive the can be, and the upcoming akali can stay hidden under towers making passive play impossible while it also being impossible to fight alkali because she'll out burst ur standard non op champion.

  1. the kits of these champions are extremely difficult to balance. Most of balancing is stat checks and cds checks but that really doesn't work with champions CT creates. They're either being constantly nerfed or buffed or straight oppressive and not touched because what else can you really do except revamp the champion kit itself.

4)you say these champions are very fun to beat and fun to play but there are several flaws with that. Players shouldn't have to outplay a yasuo to such extreme extents to beat him... The other way players can beat these sort of champions is because the enemy is not playing them nowhere near right. You shouldn't rely on the enemy playing to a subpar level(relative to your elo/mmr) in order to win.

  1. there are many champions that feel extremely fulfilling while also having counterplay to them. Oppressive kits isn't the only way and riot has proven that with lots of other champions. Take riven for example, mechanically intensive, fulfilling kit, BUT HAS COUNTERPLAY THAT ISN'T JUST DISREGARDED FROM ONE BUTTON. Kled, fiora, Jax(just to name a few) are fulfilling and fun and provide something unique to the game. Ivern is the perfect example of innovation balanced. A soul, viktor, anivia, karthus, Oriana, zilean, ekko, Vladimir, just to anime a few Mages. You notice how something niche and fulfilling like kassadin can exist without being face role when slightly strong. Want something more niche just look at xerath, velkoz, and ziggs. Adc's are quite difficult to balance because most of the time it's like 5 Adc's dominating everything else( I'm disregarding the mage bot lane meta) but most Adc's do have unique fulfilling and skillful kits WITHOUT ALWAYS BEING OPPRESSIVE! Supports too but like Adc's they're almost always dictated by meta and stats than their actual kits. So yeah yk what I bet yasuo is rlly fun to play but fun shouldn't justify lack of counterplay. And yes yk what there is some counterplay to these champions but definitely not enough, this is why I dislike CT as a champion designer
The Iceborn1 votes

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