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Could we get "+10-20% Vision Power" passives on some support items?

DrugsForRobots··9 votes·939 views

Items like item 3222, item 3504, and item 3107 set the precedent for support items having unique 'support scaling' with their "+10% Shield and Heal Power" passives.

So I was thinking, rather than having item 2049 and its kin be a must-buy item for supports, maybe Riot could retire them and adjust trinket charges and durations. Then add some cool support items with the "+X% Vision Power" passives or include it on other support-specific items, which would increase the duration of wards, or recharge rate of trinkets, or something to that effect.

Q: Why retire SS?

A: To open up support's inventory for 'real' item purchases.

Q: How would this effect the game?

A: Vision would still be a scare resource, but supports (who are already closely tied to the info game and ward wars) would (still) offer their team the best vision coverage, as their trinkets and tools would be enhanced by items that they want to buy anyway.

21 Comments

Ralanr2 votes

You know...ruby sightstone is a pretty damn good item.

DrugsForRobots3 votes

The unique passive that it offers doesn't synergize with itself, oddly...

The Yetii Rider3 votes

{quoted}

You know...ruby sightstone is a pretty damn good item.

Ruby SS only offers 500 health. A single item slot can offer 500 health plus some MR, or 500 health and 50 armor, or 500 health and 60 armor...

The item is incredibly slot inefficient. For supports who have enough utility in their own kits, survivability is more beneficial to the team than utility items.

Danjeng2 votes

It's the cheapest 500 Health item you could get, and has a powerful passive and active.

Also while most supports have utility, few have built in vision. Oddly enough Kalista and Ashe both do.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

Don't forget Quinn!

I actually think the idea of the markmen class having vision abilities in their kit in genius.

I'm trying to get Riot to make my custom champ Imoen a reality. She's a Support / Marksman, and has some very powerful vision tools. Her W creates a Keyhole that she automatically peeks through, rooting and nearsighting herself but gaining increased sight in a long narrow line that follows the cursor. Keyholes stick around for a while, and she can Right-Click them to look through them!

I've also tried to get Riot to let Bard's Shrines give sight around them, considering Shaco's boxes do and he isn't even a support in Riot's eyes!

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

It's the cheapest 500 Health item you could get, and has a powerful passive and active.

Also while most supports have utility, few have built in vision. Oddly enough Kalista and Ashe both do.

Built in vision is fine but the passive isn't powerful if you aren't building items with actives.

I build Tracker's Knife instead of Sightstone. Way better slot efficiency, also cheap for what it offers, and gives vision.

Danjeng1 votes

I do too, if I'm control jungling. But supports cannot buy Tracker's Knife (without smite). Sightstone itself isn't slot efficient, but its build paths are!

The Yetii Rider1 votes

But I take Smite as support. Because I value the additional XP I get from building Trackers and the early stats given to me by Cinderhulk over saving my carry with Exhaust once every three minutes.

Danjeng1 votes

I looked through your record. You never grab smite on supports. For the supports you do play, you take ignite or exhaust. You only take smite on Nunu. Jungle nunu.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

I looked through your record. You never grab smite on supports. For the supports you do play, you take ignite or exhaust. You only take smite on Nunu. Jungle nunu.

What? I play support Smite Nunu. Look again, several of those games have someone on my team who also has Smite.

Neko Caitlyn2 votes

Why 10%? Why not like +100%?

DrugsForRobots2 votes

Let's not be hasty!

BastionKross2 votes

This is a good idea. Definitely better than what we have now.

But I can do you one better.

We ditch sightstone, buff trinkets for everyone, and make vision something all roles are equally responsible for. That way everyone gets better vision tools, supports gain an item slot and 800 gold, and players stop associating the support role with warding. Everyone wins!

DrugsForRobots1 votes

Isn't that exactly what I proposed? 0.0

BastionKross1 votes

No. You want to have other support items make trinkets stronger for supports. I want to make trinkets stronger for all roles.

Your way means that people will still see supports as the primary warding role because they have items that make their vision game stronger; which is one of the many problems sightstone has.

My way makes all roles equal, so the supports are objectively the same as everyone else when it comes to warding. Support wards are just the same as all the other role's wards, and people will begin to associate supports with warding less; making the role more popular.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

You're implying that warding isn't fun?

I think the support role would be more fun if wards were made more fun and interactable. The vision game and info wars have the potential to be thrilling and suspenseful game of spying and counterintelligence. Why not play up that aspect of League?

BastionKross1 votes

If warding was fun, every role would do it and the map would be lit up like Christmas every game. Especially since we all have a trinket slot and sightstone isn't expensive. Even the jungler has a warding jungle item.

Most players find warding to be both important and annoying. They want someone to ward, but they don't want to be the one that does it. That's why the support role being associated with vision via sightstone hurts it's popularity. If you don't want to be the guy that wards, you don't play support; simple as that.

I admit there are League players that enjoy vision wars. I also admit there are League players that enjoy pictures of naked Teemo. If you find anything unfun with League, you'll find at least a couple players that just love it.

Dankstin2 votes

Vision Power - See your map HARDER!

Danjeng2 votes

"Vision power" I think of this when I hear that.

Hextech Spectacles 10% cdr 100% mana regeneration 40 ability power

Passive- increases the duration and vision range of trinkets by 20%. Active- reveals camouflaged units in a line of vision from the caster (1500 range). The line moves clockwise and completes its rotation in 6 seconds.

Teridax682 votes

I'm usually opposed to giving more vision-based power to supports, but this is a pretty interesting implementation. With a vision-enhancing effect spread across support items, supports could have better vision than any other class without having to use up a slot on Sightstone, a fairly boring item. That kind of effect could even be combined with the shield/heal passive as a cover-all utility stat, which would move supports closer towards having a stat bound specifically to them.

My one criticism, though, is that the kind of power this effect would give would tend towards more generic vision strength, rather than the tailored effects you've advocated in other threads. An alternative could be to have some kind of set bonus effect a la Diablo/World of Warcraft that would unlock specific trinkets. For example:

Passive - Seer's Raiments: While the wielder owns three or more items marked as Seer's Raiments, they gain access to a unique selection of trinkets, equipped for free at the shop. Seer's Raiments-exclusive trinkets are automatically unequipped if the wielder drops to less than three items marked as Seer's Raiments.

That way, you'd still keep the vision power of supports to their trinkets, just like everyone else, but you could spend that power on totally new vision items only they could access. Supports could then feel like masters of vision without necessarily having an additional warding/counter-warding burden placed on them.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

I like the idea of a 'complete item/armor set' bonus, it never occurred to me that League doesn't have something like that even though they're like a staple from games like Diablo and WoW. Your proposed passive of unlocking certain vision tools is a very neat idea too.

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