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What is the point of Tenacity again?

Eedat··66 votes·4,087 views

What is the point of Tenacity when knockups and displacements are so common? Just played a game against Gragas Ornn Syndra Draven Shyvana. I had Mercs + Steraks and ended up selling mercs for Tabi because there was no point to them.

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2670819141/209139549?tab=overview

Gragas E and R are both displacements! Not affected by Tenacity!

Ornn E and Ult both knockups! Not affected by Tenacity!

Syndra E is a displacement! Not affected by Tenacity!

Draven E is a displacement! Not affected by Tenacity!

Shyvana R is a displacement! Not Affected by Tenacity!

But hey! My Wither IS affected by Tenacity!

What exactly are you supposed to do? Can someone tell me? I was literally turret diving their Ornn by 8 minutes. I 1v2'd their Shyv and Ornn under their tower at 14 minutes. Yet when it comes to fights, I get pinballed around and there is literally NOTHING I can do about it. Even with Tenacity from both Mercs and Steraks I was held down for 6 seconds straight and killed. Ornn who is literally 1/7 still is more useful because he gets a metric fuck ton of base damages while building pure tank though because thats fair.

Seriously, why are there so many knockups and displacements? Where are there so many of them on basic abilities? You would think that such powerful CC would at least be tied to ultimates wouldnt you? Whats the point when you give multiple champions displacements on basic abilities? Why do you think the only way to effectively play a melee is to one-shot something before getting held down?

You seriously need to put a lot more thought into it before handing out displacements to half the the champion roster. Are you surprised at why melees are so miserable to play right now?

99 Comments

McFatal22 votes

to make u feel confident as a fighter going into a teamfight only to get chain cc'd by the ornn/leona for 8 seconds and get melted into oblivion by the rest of their teammates.

Eedat34 votes

All of Leona's CC is reduced by tenacity. Ornn's isnt though which is bullshit. He also cancels out your tenacity for what it does help with with his Brittle mechanic

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

{quoted}

All of Leona's CC is reduced by tenacity. Ornn's isnt though which is bullshit. He also cancels out your tenacity for what it does help with with his Brittle mechanic

His stun should be.

Baron of Bread2 votes

What stun? I don't recall him having one.

Brittle+auto= knockback E= knockup R= knockup and slow Q= slow

Succubús GF5 votes

True but Leona can still lock you down for a solid 5 seconds even with tenacity.

Ralanr3 votes

If she’s using everything then I suppose.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

If she’s using everything then I suppose.

If a champion whose cc is affected by tenacity can lock you down for 5 seconds, what about one whose cc isn't affected by tenacity?

Ralanr2 votes

So basically you’re getting chained CCed regardless. If five seconds was enough to kill you then it doesn’t really matter.

Laughing Fish19 votes

What is the point of Magic Resist when Physical damage and True Damage are so common?

Tenacity helps against a lot of champs. It doesn't help against all champs. If you are fighting enemies with a ton of knockups, maybe don't stack tenacity. Saying tenacity is useless because it doesn't counter everything is like saying MR is useless because it doesn't counter physical damage.

NineTailedMystic5 votes

I think the complaint is more about "uncounterable CC".

Laughing Fish6 votes

Counterbuilding isn’t the only form of countering. Positioning, dodging, timing, etc. are all valid forms of counterplay as well.

Plus it is worth noting that knockups usually remove your ability to move for far less time than a stun or a root. And the value of a knockback is highly dependant of position while a stun is always good no matter where you are.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Wow! I'm glad a melee champion can position well and dodge POINT-BLANK CROWD CONTROL!

Wait, only ranged champions have the ability to dodge to shit because the enemy has a distance to travel/their abilities to travel.

DragonShea2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNdP68gV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-12-15T06:38:48.534+0000)

What is the point of Magic Resist when Physical damage and True Damage are so common?

Tenacity helps against a lot of champs. It doesn't help against all champs. If you are fighting enemies with a ton of knockups, maybe don't stack tenacity. Saying tenacity is useless because it doesn't counter everything is like saying MR is useless because it doesn't counter physical damage.

Good point, but at the same time people are getting iffed that there is so much Knockback, some knockup's should be affected by tenacity while others would be useless if they were affected.

ChaddyFantome8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNdP68gV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-12-15T06:38:48.534+0000)

What is the point of Magic Resist when Physical damage and True Damage are so common?

The heck is this terrible comparison?

TC is not saying Tenicity shoyld counter everything. He is saying that displacements have become too comon to justify the way they currently work, as knockups are effectively just better stuns.

DeusVult10 votes

Not gonna tell you that displacements not being affected by tenacity is bullshit, because it is, but calling gragas E, Syndra E, Draven E and Shyvana R displacements or that they should have their duration reduced is kinda misleading and over the top. Gragas E is a stun, the displacement part is minimal. Syndra E is a stun if a ball hits you, and only displaces you if you are close. Again, for only a couple of frames. Draven E knockback is tiny, and only lasts a couple of frames. Shyvana ult is hard AF to hit, because the hit box is tiny, and the knockback is tiny.

Now I'm all for having tenacity work on knockups, but I don't really see how it would work for knockbacks, as they are meant to "push" you a certain distance, and reducing that would feel strange, especially with a bunch of particles. Not to mention that most knock-backs happen very quickly, and dont last long. So yes to tenacity for knockups, but enough with the over the top BS.

DragonShea6 votes

First of all, displacement should become it's own separate type of CC while knockups should become affected by tenacity. things such as maokai and ziggs abilities should be displacement while Poppy's and Cho's should be considered knock back. if you know what I mean.

Divewing15 votes

or just new item: Gravity Boots

Reduces the effects of displacements by 33% (distance and duration)

ChemicalBuster10 votes

new item #2 weighted armor reduces displacement by 10%

Mhihnj8 votes

if it's weighted shouldn't it reduce movement speed by some amount?

But i am using logic. Logic got no power here. After all brand dies to ignite.

ChemicalBuster7 votes

lmao what if its active could be that you take it off and you attack and move faster for a bit

Barkley3 votes

This..... is actually......

Genius...

notice me Sin pi4 votes

brand dying to ignite makes sense. If i were to throw bunch of human limbs at you, u r going to get hurt after all even tho u r human.

Infernape4 votes

But how do you ignite something which is made of fire?

notice me Sin pi3 votes

naw, u r thinking about it in terms of "ignited vs not ignited". Instead, more accurate way to think about it would be heat or temperature. Lets say, Brand's normal body temperature is 2000 celcius. He's still gonna get burnt by something at 3000 celcius.

a tasmanian giant freshwater crayfish is to human body temperature as Brand is to summoner 14 temperature.

Ralanr3 votes

This would (pardon my Language) fuck over champions like Darius or Trundle who have small displacements on abilities.

Darius especially because he needs the pull in order to do his combo. If his target suddenly can’t be pulled close enough they he can’t do his combo.

Sir Rouge6 votes

Well, the point of tenacity is that it's great against certain champions! Things like Elise Leona Lissandra Morgana Varus Sejuani Syndra Lux Annie . Idk why you even mention Gragas 's R, Draven 's E, Syndra 's E and Shyvana 's R. Why would any of these be affected by tenacity? They're knockbacks/displacements, not knockups.

Now, if you mean that there are too many knockups in the game (or that knockups should be affected by tenacity), that's a different thing.

Eedat4 votes

They're knockbacks/displacements, not knockups.

Literally the FIRST sentence come on man

What is the point of Tenacity when knockups and displacements are so common?

Then I go on to list each ability specifically as a knockup or displacement.

At least read the thread first

Mordepool5 votes

Tenacity is good vs Non-Meta champions.

Penns5 votes

Still reduces a lot tho, you dont say "whats the point of MR when Void Staff or true damage exists" either.

JackMcSnipeyz5 votes

Draven' e has such a short knock time, you wouldnt even notice if it got reduced. It reduces the slow time after it aswell. Same with syndra's stun after the knockback. Shuvanna on the same boat as Draven.

Most displacements are so short tenacity would make them none existant. It reduces all CC durations, knock ups arent as common as regular CC, tho they are common that's true. If they have a lot of hard CC, like leona, naut, taric, build tenacity, it's not a must buy stat, it's a niche.

Succubús GF4 votes

I love seeing Leona and sejuani on the enemy team... So fucking irritating to not be able to move ever.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Good news! Tenacity does exist, and does reduce the duration of all of their CC, despite OP's claims!

TwinkiePro4 votes

Fun fact: If you are knocked up into the air as Olaf and use your ult, you still cannot move until a) you flash or b) you land. Knock ups are a CC that needs to be far more rare.

Baron Barian3 votes

Draven's misplacement kind of sucks. Even if it lasted for half as long, it wouldn't really make much of a difference.

SEKAI3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Barian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNdP68gV,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-15T02:22:18.233+0000)

Draven's misplacement kind of sucks. Even if it lasted for half as long, it wouldn't really make much of a difference.

Though against fed Draven it's actually not rare to die mid-air while being displaced by his E even if it only makes you stumble for like an instant, and it's a pretty big CC hitbox btw.

He's a carry with an extreme damage curve, idk why they thought it was a good idea to let him have displacement that's quite easy to hit too. But anyway.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Still. No amount of Tenacity (unless you impossibly hit 100%) would actually reduce the knockup's duration by a noticeable amount, assuming tenacity were to affect displacements.

Draven doesn't use the knockup for the knockup. He uses it to stop dashes, let his Yasuo ult, move you slightly to the side, and deal damage.

Boop Daddy 2 votes

Even all the reasons you listed are niche compared to what Draven really wants to do with his E - slow the target so he can kite/catch-up with W.

LittleDemonTrist3 votes

The point of tenacity is to have a 8th stat showed when u press c. U have to have 2 4 6 8 etc. 7 stats would look good

Handy Sandy 3 votes

syndra's knockback isn't that good, it's the cc that kills you and that can be reduced.

Eedat3 votes

When you're a melee fighter, the displacement is huge

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Because Ahri Alistar Amumu Anivia Annie Ashe Bard Brand Braum Caitlyn Cassiopeia Camille Ekko Elise Evelynn Fiddlesticks Garen Gnar Hecarim Heimerdinger Irelia Ivern Jax Kennen Leblanc Leona Lissandra Lulu Lux Maokai Morgana Nasus Nocturne Nunu Ornn Pantheon Poppy Rakan Rammus Renekton Ryze Sejuani Shaco Shen Singed Sion Sona Soraka Swain Syndra TahmKench Taric Teemo TwistedFate Udyr Varus Vayne Veigar Viktor Warwick Xayah Xerath Zilean Zoe and Zyra all exist. Each of these champions have hard (or really strong soft) CC that's not a displacement. And I left a lot of them out.

You don't need tenacity in every matchup. But it's a stat that has a purpose. Pretending it doesn't just means you're an idiot.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

Because Ahri Alistar Amumu Anivia Annie Ashe Bard Brand Braum Caitlyn Cassiopeia Camille Ekko Elise Evelynn Fiddlesticks Garen Gnar Hecarim Heimerdinger Irelia Ivern Jax Kennen Leblanc Leona Lissandra Lulu Lux Maokai Morgana Nasus Nocturne Nunu Ornn Pantheon Poppy Rakan Rammus Renekton Ryze Sejuani Shaco Shen Singed Sion Sona Soraka Swain Syndra TahmKench Taric Teemo TwistedFate Udyr Varus Vayne Veigar Viktor Warwick Xayah Xerath Zilean Zoe and Zyra all exist. Each of these champions have hard (or really strong soft) CC that's not a displacement. And I left a lot of them out.

You don't need tenacity in every matchup. But it's a stat that has a purpose. Pretending it doesn't just means you're an idiot.

70% of the champs you listed have a knockup or knockback ( or both) tho. :o

Succubús GF1 votes

Lulu zyra sejuani viktor syndra poppy and vayne all have displacements... At least you tried.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

They also have non-displacements.

Terozu3 votes

Syndra and Gragas' abilities end in stun so its still effective.

Spank the Fox2 votes

Teehee here we are complaining amd knock ups when charms and slows have doubled/tripled over the years.

Battalion3 votes

Ahri Rakan are the only charm champions I know of and their charms are a really big part of their viability.

ConcreteLamp4 votes

{quoted}

Ahri Rakan are the only charm champions I know of and their charms are a really big part of their viability.

Eve too, but those are the only three, and it's always a pretty big part of their kits that probably shouldn't be touched too much

NineTailedMystic4 votes

Remember when Ahri's Charm was unique to her? Feelsbadman.

Succubús GF2 votes

Thematically it fits eve tho.

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