GOD I cant wait for when they Add Iron and new players are not placed in Silver 3

5050BS·Nov 28, 2018·14 votes·9,699 views

New account lvl 30 Nas top

Ends 0/7 just running around the map with zero clue what to do.

Look him up and its all ARAM and TT

14 Comments

FOR JUSTICENov 28, 20185 votes

ummm... you do realize the starting mmr remains the same, even after they add iron right?

all this will change is the original face-rank youre placed in. the teammates youre paired with when in the new system will remain entirely the same.

also it sounds more like a botted/bought account to me.

SEKAINov 28, 20184 votes

{quoted}

New account lvl 30 Nas top

Ends 0/7 just running around the map with zero clue what to do.

Look him up and its all ARAM and TT

Idk about you, but it sounds like a some guy just bought a bot account and first game EVER and tried Ranked.

I was triggered upon hearing the "its all ARAM and TT" bit.

Silly NeekoNov 28, 20182 votes

Honestly, it would be good for new players to be based around Bronze rather than Silver for starting ranked. Silver would be where you work up to, and then gold feels like more of an accomplishment and then it wouldnt be as likely to have first time ranked people in gold, and ESPECIALLY plat (for when they win a few placements and end up somehow facing those because their placements arnt done yet).

5050BSNov 28, 201811 votes

New players should be the lowest rank there is and climb out of it. Not ruining games.

Silly NeekoNov 28, 20188 votes

{quoted}

New players should be the lowest rank there is and climb out of it. Not ruining games.

No, some are decent new players. Thats why its a middle ground basing.

Not all new players are bad.

SEKAINov 28, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNHWywfz,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-28T21:28:30.152+0000)

Not all new players are bad.

Unless they're actually new, not smurfs or anything (like "played other similar games before so adapt quicker" kinda stuff).

So all new players are bad. They are bad and expected to be bad, because they are new.

Silly NeekoNov 28, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Unless they're actually new, not smurfs or anything (like "played other similar games before so adapt quicker" kinda stuff).

So all new players are bad. They are bad and expected to be bad, because they are new.

So in otherwords, exactly what i mean about not all new players are bad. Just because they are new to league does not mean new to this style of play, or they could be smurfs, or they could be just fast learners.

Which is why it was based around Silver before.

Now it can be based around bronze, and when golds are doing their games it is less likely to get actual new players, and plat+ should pretty much never get someone whos in placements.

SEKAINov 28, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNHWywfz,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-28T21:38:11.043+0000)

So in otherwords, exactly what i mean about not all new players are bad. Just because they are new to league does not mean new to this style of play, or they could be smurfs, or they could be just fast learners.

Which is why it was based around Silver before.

Now it can be based around bronze, and when golds are doing their games it is less likely to get actual new players, and plat+ should pretty much never get someone whos in placements.

No. What I meant was that there is no need to base it in Silver, because the actually new players are almost certainly and guaranteed to be bad precisely because they are new.

The only actual "new" player who aren't bad are almost certainly NOT new, and there is no reason to consider them as new players, nor to subsequently consider "not all new players are bad" because the only ones who aren't bad aren't new.

And if those "new" players aren't new, they already climb faster than others would. Not sure why elevating the starting point is even needed. All it does is having actual new players ruin matchmaking because they are matched at a skill level clearly above theirs.

Silly NeekoNov 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No. What I meant was that there is no need to base it in Silver, because the actually new players are almost certainly and guaranteed to be bad precisely because they are new.

The only actual "new" player who aren't bad are almost certainly NOT new, and there is no reason to consider them as new players, nor to subsequently consider "not all new players are bad" because the only ones who aren't bad aren't new.

And if they aren't new, they already climb faster than others would. Not sure why elevating the starting point is even needed. All it does is putting having actual new players ruin matchmaking because they are matched at a skill level clearly above theirs.

Normal MMR would not be effecting ranked. Therefore, not actual new players are still treated like new players im the games eyes. They will be placed with those that could be not actually new, or they could be placed with those that are new.

Bronze for a while was the "safe space"ish where you are more likely to find those that are not as good, or who do not put in any games to get out of it. It is where bad people can feel better about being bad because they are against other bad people who could be worse. It would not be like putting a challenger in with a bronze, unless they are obviously better, and then as you said they would climb.

The problem is, if everyone started bronze V and worked their way up, things would be much worse because those that are not ACTUALLY new as you say, would end up fighting those that are actually new, and while they would climb faster.... the new players or bad players would have to keep fighting them over and over again.

With the starting tier above the lowest tier, which would now be iron next week, then those who are not actually new would be climbing fine anyways, or averaging out in bronze. While the new and bad players are in iron so that they have a chance to not be stomped nearly every game as they are just trying to learn.

FOR JUSTICENov 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

New players should be the lowest rank there is and climb out of it. Not ruining games.

actually there IS a need to base it in silver, due to how the MMR system works.

when you win, you gain MMR, by taking some from the losers. how much they lose/you gain is dependent on how much they had to start with, and how much larger/smaller it was compared to yours before you won. if everyone started at an MMR of zero, it would be impossible to climb due to the fact that you cant determine how much to actually take from the losers if you win, and how much to take from you if you lose, being that the MMR system is directly linked to your probability of winning -

any probability less then 0% is impossible, due to the fact that 0% IS impossible, so therefore having anything less literally cannot exist. so therefore having a negative MMR is also fundamentally impossible. but if you beat them, but you have 0 MMR, how much should you gain? statistically speaking its absolutely impossible for you to win, so how can the system determine how much youre supposed to gain, if not all of theirs because you won against mathematical probability? if they also have 0 mmr, how can you gain any?

so to solve this when the MMR system was first theorized, the 50% sum was devised, because at your peak MMR, you should be winning half your games, and losing half your games. this, is the sole reason why everyone starts silver 3 MMR, because its the EXACT middleground of ranked, and its the safest place to start because it has to assume your at the average level of play.

2Charmnot2CharmNov 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Unless they're actually new

They don't hit level 30 instantly.
It's not that hard to understand the game to a silver level with outside help (like watching streams, reading guides you know the drill).

If someone really cares about improvement they can easily hit plat their first season assuming they didn't join too late into the season. Not all new players are casuals that are satisfied with being bronze-silver.

LeBlanc JameśNov 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

New players should be the lowest rank there is and climb out of it. Not ruining games.

Correct. Should be lowest rank and start from there. Once you know how to play bronze is stupid easy to climb out of. Iron should be even easier.

LeetriNov 29, 20181 votes

All MMR/Elo systems ever made start you in the middle, it's how those systems work. What you're suggesting isn't possible with MMR/Elo.

HügöNov 29, 20181 votes

So from the title I guess you are around silver 3? With the implementation of iron you will most likely drop lower and see them again. As there are more tiers to split all players apart many players will drop down as the difference between each skill group will finally be more distinct from each other.