The new AP item on PBE - LOL

Serenity Now·Feb 19, 2015·13 votes·2,584 views

So DFG gets removed because it gave burst damage champions even more burst to delete a squishy.

The new item (#3285) on PBE is even worse. Mobile AP assassins like Katarina, LeBlanc, and Akali get an even bigger power spike than DFG ever gave.

Really, what are you guys smoking over there at Riot HQ?

This item, and Static Shiv to a lesser extent, only serve to promote champions with mobility over those without. And in case you've been under a rock for the past 2 or 3 seasons, mobility is a real issue.

58 Comments

StoningtonFeb 19, 20155 votes

I love these forums. There's always a good chuckle to be had.

Rinky DinkyFeb 19, 20151 votes

ikr.

Only reason I stick around.

An actual meaningful thread might be rare, but the shit that floats around is just too funny xD

Slushi SimcambiFeb 19, 20154 votes

Does this sound ridiculously strong on Ahri or is it just me?

She already is one of the strongest casters mid and this item seems to cater to her high mobility caster playstyle incredibly well...

Sailor MintFeb 19, 20153 votes

It's better than Deathcap as a first item on everyone because it's a free damage spike.

As far as Ahri is concerned.

The movement speed is "wasted" (Diminishing Returns).
"Magic Shiv" requires a lot of mana to proc at a decent rate .
Morellonomicon gives her both MP5 and CDR.
Lichbane is a better "cheese" item since she can proc it on CD with Spirit Rush.

Still a solid first item if you're not going the CDR route. Would still be rough to support without a mana item.

Slushi SimcambiFeb 19, 20151 votes

Seems like it could make her q that much more deadly in teamfights tho.

Wînter FoxFeb 19, 20152 votes

Eh...I don't think it sounds all that great on her. It might be useful on Mordekaiser Karthus Cassiopeia who spam spells every 0.5 seconds, but Ahri's not spammy like that.

Sire HippingtonFeb 19, 20154 votes

Totally agree, I really don't get why they now make a new item that fits perfectly well to all those champions that were very problematic with DFG. The burst it offers is comparable low though, it definitly won't give the same one-shot potential as dfg, but i'm still not to happy with it promoting high mobillty and/or spammy casters(cassio is a nightmare with it, she can proc even more frequently than a kassadin with infint mana)

Sailor MintFeb 19, 20153 votes

It's worse than Lichbane for burst damage. It's worse than Lichbane for sustained damage.

It's a weaker version of Lichbane for champions who don't auto-attack and/or need more wave clear.

Serenity NowFeb 19, 20152 votes

I disagree it's worse. And imagine having both =0

Jungle Lux GodFeb 19, 20153 votes

Actually, the less mobile you are, the better this item this is on you.

Mobile assassins can use this item, but it doesn't help much because they all have gapclosers except for Evelyn, and she isn't in the best place right now.

Immobile mages can use this item a lot better because the movement speed matters, as they generally don't have gapclosers. Obviously, there are exceptions, but for a majority this is true.

I also think that another movement speed item could offer a unique mobile mage playstyle where you get all the best MS + AP items (Lich Bane, Twin Shadows, and the new item) and focus on using your mobility and procs from Lich Bane and the new item for tons of damage.

This kind of playstyle was something that wasn't supported for a large majority of champs because of the lack of a big AP + MS item, but now that we are getting one we can at least try it out and see how it works.

Serenity NowFeb 19, 20151 votes

You're missing the point.

The item stacks damage by moving, and this includes dashes and teleports. Hence, the more mobile you are the more it charges up your damage.

Jungle Lux GodFeb 19, 20153 votes

I can see that.

I do want to point out that if you have dashes and teleports, you probably don't need the movement speed boost from the new item either, so for them the comparison between Deathcap and the new item would strictly be the passives, and I would argue that the Deathcap passive would be better in more situations than the new item's passive, even on champs that can effectively use the new passive.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

It's "compensating" for DFG's removal, though instead of being able to easily eliminate a single target it's promoting taking part in team fights..Essentially, buffing Kat out the ass and giving her potential to actually be in a team fight rather than just clean them up.

JefftiffyFeb 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's "compensating" for DFG's removal, though instead of being able to easily eliminate a single target it's promoting taking part in team fights..Essentially, buffing Kat out the ass and giving her potential to actually be in a team fight rather than just clean them up.

Except she has a huge nerf hitting her on the PBE where she can only reset if she damaged them in the last 3s.

SukishooFeb 19, 20157 votes

I wouldn't call that "HUGE" I'd call that NEEDED

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

Uh...no, that nerfs her to the ground.

SukishooFeb 19, 20153 votes

Again, NEEDED.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20154 votes

Not needed. That makes her entirely irrelevent in team fights.

Why do I say this? Let's compare to another hated champ: Zed.

Ahh, Zed; the classic pinnacle of complaints among Bronzies. He ults in, effectively destroys a carry with zero effort, and safely gets out then is able to rejoin the team to poke and provide utility. Sure, he doesn't have all-in kill potential anymore, but he's still useful.

Kat on the other hand is already so easily shut down by ANY form of hard CC it isn't funny. So she fills the role of the most effective janitor we have. Sure, she has amazing engage and a great way to mop up those fights with the resets resulting in free movement from shunpo.

HOWEVER, you take away her resets and push them down to only if you've damaged the enemy within 3 seconds (basically a reduced Darius ult) that means she needs to get hit by literally one form of hard CC (soraka E, Morg Q, etc) and she's entirely shut down and locked down and becomes 100% useless (provided you haven't blown her defenseless ass up). Now, God forbid you move a little too far apart for her in a team fight and you leave a member behind, she becomes again, useless for nearly 10 seconds during which you can engage freely. She has comparatively almost no poke, doesn't have the range to be poking, and certainly doesn't have any utility in doing so.

She's already feed or famine, why make it SO much worse she becomes nearly unplayable?

Rinky DinkyFeb 19, 20153 votes

are you.......

High?

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

Not referring to the item, her lack of resets makes her much less relevent.

The SoulforgedFeb 19, 20152 votes

Has GD become overridden with people who don't know much about game balance, because this guy makes legit points. She is easily destroyed by any cc, and there is no denying that.

SukishooFeb 19, 20151 votes

LOL NO. It makes her MUCH more relevant in team fights. Read what it does. LOL.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

Not referring to the item, her lack of resets being apparently implemented on PBE makes her much less relevent.

Do I think a 15 second CD reset she currently has is a little absurd? Yes. She already has low CDs, throw on a item 3165 and they're further reduced.

Do I think a stipulation of "only if you've damaged the enemy within 3 seconds" is nerfing her to the ground and taking her entirely out of teamfights? Yes. It is.

SukishooFeb 19, 20151 votes

Was talking about her. That is what makes her much more relevant and if you think otherwise then you don't know at all how she works and didn't read the change.

It nerfed the way she is played right now yes, which IS needed, but it buffs how she should be played in a teamfight as if she's in them and gets a kill she can keep going.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20151 votes

Lemme break this down. Shunpo to Morgana. Q's your face before you can get your full combo off and you blow your W/ult. That lasts 3 seconds. Even if it's JUST HER; Oh, you're dead - you wasted your CDs, have no escapes anymore until shunpo comes back up, assuming there's even a minion wave behind you, which next to her ult is her longest CD (not to mention it's maxed last)

One single form of CC shuts her off entirely. You don't see that for any other melee champ.

biggeneosFeb 19, 20151 votes

You still wait for the big cc's to come out if your jumping in right away then that's the issue I've seen plenty of fights where if a kat jumps in smartly the first person to die generally dies in less than three seconds of her jumping in and the resets begin.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

Major CC can go out and still have plenty of CC in your team's kits to shut her down. Let's remember she relies on AoE damage to get the most out of her ult and W giving her resets. You shunpo the middle of the enemy team, what's to stop you from getting knocked up, knocked back, stunned, snared, etc.

For example, you don't see a Draven use Stand Aside as soon as you initiate a team fight. When Kat engages, hit W, she's dead. One form of CC.

biggeneosFeb 22, 20152 votes

Yes but if your team is well rounded then what about your own teams cc that'll keep that from happening to you. A lot of kat comps usually have ways of protecting her

CopelandoFeb 19, 20156 votes

can't tell if joking or serious Azir

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

What does Azir have to do with Katarina's resets?

Azir has a lot of counterplay if you hadn't noticed.

CopelandoFeb 19, 20153 votes

just talking about nerfing to the ground lol

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20153 votes

Azir's still viable, he got a range reduction - learn to play around it. He still provides a lot of utility and a ridiculous amount of damage if you're hit by just his double soldier Q.

If anything, his range reduction is a balanced change not a nerf.

CopelandoFeb 19, 20152 votes

Learn how to play around the 3 seconds then. It's not it takes longer than 3 seconds for her to kill anyone.

Azir is not viable at the slightest. item 3070 Azir

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

Guess you've never really tried playing her against a Lissandra lane.

Let me inform you, Lissandra's a hard counter. She destroys Kat for days and zones her out, limiting her gold supply and can easily dive @ 6, ult herself and takes away all her turret aggro.

Forces the decision between tower damage and roam at 6 for a potential kill or stay and get poked down and dove on.

either way, you can't 100-0 anyone in that first roam with being so highly suppressed in lane, I guarantee you that - hell, you can't even do it with a "decent" lane.

Also, Azir's quite viable, just not against all lanes. Stop blowing all your CDs just to farm, make it into the mid-game team fights and you provide a lot for your team.

Rinky DinkyFeb 19, 20151 votes

If you think Azir isnt viable, then you suck with him. Sorry.

CopelandoFeb 19, 20151 votes

Try playing Azir and tell me that he is viable after the nerfs.

GunpointFeb 22, 20151 votes

You are braindead if you think Azir is still viable.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20152 votes

3 seconds is relatively unreasonable if you ask me. 5, Okay. But 3? Morgana snare lasts 3.

Rinky DinkyFeb 19, 20153 votes

Nigga are you smoking the good shit?

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20153 votes

First, I'm not your "nigga." Secondly, I do, it's great shit. Welcome to BC. Third, 3 seconds is a totally unreasonable amount of time. Too small. 5 seconds is more reasonable. Why? One single bit of CC shuts her down then. Zero escapes, zero engage. 5 seconds gives you two seconds - either to re-engage or at least shunpo to a minion behind you. One form of CC doesn't shut down any other melee champ, it shouldn't shut down Kat.

SukishooFeb 19, 20152 votes

You do know it's called experimental for a reason right? It's only just begun being worked on. It will clearly go through many changes, as yes, right now in it's current state it's very powerful.

KilaneFeb 19, 20152 votes

Oh Ahri would benefits from this items alot. She moves and kite alot especially to get the rebound orb to hit. When the Q is ult, what Ahri does this patch is to move more to land charm and W which shoot out 3 shots.

It's 120AP

combo it with

Gain charges upon moving or casting. At 100 charges, the next spell hit expends all charges to deal 100 (+15% AP) bonus magic damage to up to 4 targets on hit.

next spell hit expends all charges to deal 100 (+15% AP) bonus magic damage to up to 4 targets on hit.

GG NO RE PERMA BAN!

Oh man and then there is Nid. yap, this game is doomed.

DJ Di0Feb 22, 20152 votes

Luden's Echo is like....the exact opposite of Deathfire Grasp lol

Multi-target low sustained damage vs Single-target burst damage.

I don't think any champion will be able to rush it, even champions who lack waveclear . I tried it on the pbe and it charges reeeally fast, but it doesn't actually add as much as you'd think it does, not without much more ap at least. It feels like an item you'd get if the other team has a lot of waveclear and you need something late-game to help a little.

ExiledTyrantFeb 19, 20151 votes

I'm interested on how it will work with champions that already make good use of lichbane. This combined with lich for 12% speed could equal an outright boots replacement for far more damage on some champs. Movespeed quints if the speed still slightly lags behind.

ARCDASHFeb 19, 20151 votes

So its an item that helps Heroes who farm with spells...Veigar?

MrSlowDieFeb 19, 20151 votes

Mobility creep is bad !! >release kalista >release item that good on mobile champ

OmManiPadmeHumFeb 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serenity Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tK0JjB7v,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-02-19T00:56:01.108+0000)

So DFG gets removed because it gave burst damage champions even more burst to delete a squishy.

The new item (#3285) on PBE is even worse. Mobile AP assassins like Katarina, LeBlanc, and Akali get an even bigger power spike than DFG ever gave.

Really, what are you guys smoking over there at Riot HQ?

This item, and Static Shiv to a lesser extent, only serve to promote champions with mobility over those without. And in case you've been under a rock for the past 2 or 3 seasons, mobility is a real issue.

the main part of the DFG wasn't stats, it was the active. the DFG active not only was a nuke in itself, but non-AP champs like Garen were abusing it also taking people from 50% health to ZERO in a DFG+ult combo

This item gives back the AP stats, plus some nicely and much needed MS stats and a statik shiv proc. And trust me...that proc will NOT be going off as much as statik for hardly ANY mages build attack speed...but almost EVERY AD statik shiv user does.

The Bearded BardFeb 22, 20151 votes

A mobility item for nonmobile mages? Sign me up. AD has been too fast for too long.

Cosmic WarperFeb 22, 20151 votes

They need to make it so that spells casts charge it up a lot faster than any sort of dash or movement.

Also, this is nothing close to DFG's power so i don't know why you're crying. The item is already better for spam mages who use their abilities often. DFG provided an overkill edge case, and even then gave CDR so that assassins could continue on with the fight even after 2 shotting the squishy. Not even close to DFG.