What is Gnar's weakness?

Serenity Now··29 votes·8,405 views

I find him incredibly annoying to lane against.

With his ranged harass, boomerang slow, and jump, he's difficult to trade with and is nearly ungankable. And then mega Gnar is big enough to walk out of trouble, or knocks you away.

Think Riot messed up when they buffed the fragility of little Gnar.

71 Comments

ScurvyNave22 votes

Pick anyone who can either out trade his poke such as a Lissandra or an adc top lane.

My personal favourite counter against a Gnar is Olaf. My axes out range his boomerang and you can sustain well with your W. The secret is to fight when Gnar turns into mega Gnar because Olaf's ultimate can make all of Mega Gnars abilities null. All that incredible cc can't do a thing as you QW and use E to ignore that pesky armour a Gnar always builds.

Serenity Now3 votes

Those are pretty specific picks. I can crush Zed mid as Fiddle, but that doesn't mean Zed is balanced.

Delioth32 votes

Hold up, this did not have any implications of a "QQ Gnar too stronk" thread. You asked what his weakness is, and this fine sir answered you.

EfficientDynamo7 votes

Mordekaiser works pretty well too, in my experience.

Rikari1 votes

What about his planetary travelling jump? What is Olaf do to against that?

ScurvyNave1 votes

{quoted}

What about his planetary travelling jump? What is Olaf do to against that?

You simply have to wait for him to use his jump. When fighting Gnar timing your engagements is critical, survive his mini form as Olaf and when he goes Mega Gnar just pop your ultimate and tear into him since Mega Gnars jump is just pitiful in comparison.

Meep Man9 votes

It varies between his transformations.

In his Mini Form, he is the squishiest character in the game and doesn't have too much burst damage. He has a lot of mobility and poke to make up for it.

In his Mega Form, he is the tankiest character in the game and deals a lot of burst damage, but has lower mobility and much less effective poke.

Serenity Now10 votes

But he's not actually that squishy, or as weak, as he really should be in that form.

He seems to have all the advantages in top lane of a mobile ranged ADC, as well as a tanky bruiser. Really, what is his weakness?

Duke Anax5 votes

He hass all the advantages, but not at the same time, he also has all the weaknesses at the other times.

Go ham on Mini Gnar, so that he has no time to poke you, then stay back from Mega Gnar and poke/kite yourself when you can, wait for the trasnformation and go back in.

rampaging poet2 votes

How? His boomerang slow makes it so that many top-lanes can't catch him without a gap-closer. His jump lets him get out of the way after you use your gapcloser. He is too mobile for his squishyness to get in his way. MAYBE you could all-in him at level 1, but that's about the only time many melee top laners can even scratch him.

Remlap12231 votes

Olaf Bruh.

Sypher The Poro6 votes

I've started playing Gnar, and he's super fun to play. It's extremely difficult due to the randomness of his transformations, but also hiding in a bush right before you transform then scaring the turd outta whoever followed you in is too fun.

Gnar is stupidly squishy, and I don't mean that lightly. Let's look at stats:

Gnar DEFENSE: Health - 540 (+65 x level) = 1645 at level 18. Health Regen - 2.50 (+0.50 x level) = 11 at level 18. Armor - 23 (+2.50 x level) = 65 at level 18. Magic Resist - 30 (+0 x level) = 30 at level 18.

Here's a rather common ADC, Tristana DEFENSE: Health - 552 (+82 x level) = 1946 at level 18. (Trist also has a random 0.76 added to her health, weird.) Health Regen - 6.19 (+0.65 x level) = 17.24 at level 18. Armor - 24.04 (+3 x level) = 75 at level 18. Magic Resist - 30 (+0 x level) = 30 at level 18.

So, Tristana can be tankier then Gnar by stats alone, assuming Gnar is in mini form.

Mega Gnar gains: 43 x level Health. 2 x level Armor. 2 x level Magic Resist. 2.5 x level Attack Damage. 2.5 x level Health Regen.

Mega Gnar loses: 9 (+0.50 x level) movement speed, on top of an already crap 325 base. 245 (+5 x level) range. 5.5% (x level) attack speed. (Not sure on this, seems iffy. I'll test in a custom game later.)

When changing back to Mini Gnar, he does not keep his current health, but health percentage, AKA he heals a lot less than it looks.

Serenity Now3 votes

Ok, but Gnar builds tank, whereas an ADC does not. So that low HP is deceptive.

Arkna6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serenity Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAa8eRf5,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-01-26T02:46:01.049+0000)

Ok, but Gnar builds tank, whereas an ADC does not. So that low HP is deceptive.

Not until he's actually bought items. A good Gnar who plays to cover the weaknesses of both forms is a really hard matchup for pretty much anyone, but his weaknesses ARE there.

Sypher The Poro10 votes

Had to go eat dinner so I didn't finish my post, here's the rest.

Gnar builds tank because of his low health. Having that little health forces him to build extra to survive, and as a giant CC machine in Mega Form that is what he's best at. Gnar is excepted to build with a somewhat tanky build, I usually go half and half similar to Jayce. This reduces Gnar's over-all damage. To compensate this, his AD and AP Ratios are really high.

Mini Gnar: Q builds with 115% AD. W (Passive) builds with 100% AP E builds with 6% of Gnar's health, which encourages the more tanky builds. R builds with 20% AD and 50% AP.

A normal Gnar build focuses in using his Boomerang and Hyper passive for damage, and then when transforming to Mega just CC people to death.

Focusing on Q first, it has a 20 second cooldown at level 1 and a 10 second cooldown at level 5. However, catching the Boomerang reduces the cooldown by 45%/50%/55%/60% depending on the level of his ult. So a good Gnar will make sure to catch Q to increase the damage he can do. If you're against Gnar, try to play someone with a skillshot snare or other form of CC. When he throws his Q, it comes back based on the direction Gnar is going. Throw your skillshot towards where he has to be to catch the boomerang, this forces him to either catch it to reduce the cooldown and get trapped in the CC or ignore it and wait on his boomerang to come back, which allows you to get damage on him or get farm. Another thing is staying behind minions reduces the damage by 50%.

His W allows for large amounts of damage and easy escape, it's great fun in Hide and Seek. Every time Gnar hits a champion with a basic attack or his Boomerang it applies a stack which is easily seen by the orange ring at the targets feet. At 3 stacks the target takes 50 (+100% AP) (+6/8/10/12/14% of the target's max health) as magic damage. This allows Gnar to shred those high-health target like Singed and Garen. However, this only works in mini form. The best defense is watch the stacks, especially at low health and build magic resist. If you're a tank, wait for Gnar to go into his Mega form and fight him as far away from walls as possible. This reduces Gnar to one stun, at a 15-7 second cooldown instead of two.

To sum up the best thing I think to do would be this: If you're an AD melee champion like Fiora wait for his Mega form before going in so you can do damage without worrying about him using his ranged attacks and W passive to kit you. Watch for the stun, as it's easily to see it and dodge. Stay AWAY from walls to prevent him using his ult.

If you're an AD ranged champ like Caitlyn, watch his Rage bar very carefully and stay back when he goes Mega. Gnar usually using his bounce on a minion when he transforms as a gap closer, so back off from your minions. When he does go Mega, kit him and call for a gank from your jungler. As soon as he goes back have your jungler come in before he can build more rage and try to CC him to prevent him using E to escape. While in lane, abuse your range over him and poke him away from farm. Dodge his Q and send skillshots when he tries to catch it.

I'm a level 30 unranked play anywhere kinda guy, but I'm really good at picking people up and learning their ups and downs. My current favorite champs are Yasuo, Gnar, Lux, and Nidalee. Thinking about writing a couple guides, but until then I'm a board lurker. :P

rampaging poet6 votes

Thanks! That's much more helpful than the typical "he's squishy just kill him lol" advice I've seen elsewhere.

SnackieCakes1 votes

I like your advice but wanted to note that Gnar also builds tanky because he has good base damage on his spells and a max health damage proc on his w, meaning he doesn't really need to build for damage.

Sypher The Poro2 votes

Exactly. As a tank, a good way to counter Gnar's health proc damage is to build some magic resist, so as a Garen or Singed top lane it would be better to rush something like item 3065 instead of item 3068. Also, if you're playing on Crystal Scar, buy a item 3180 to reduce that damage quite a bit.

Maybe I should do guides on how to counter people? The Anti-SoAndSo guide. Hmmmm......

Sypher The Poro1 votes

I also want to just put this in here real quick: As most of you noticed, Gnar's W builds with 100% AP. So on full AP Gnar you can do about 1000 + 14% of your target's max health in magic damage. It's stupidly fun. :D

JevelFaithful1 votes

Just to point out. In lane, he's not going to be fully built. He'll probably get only 1 or 2 items by the end of laning.

The Bard Dog4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serenity Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YAa8eRf5,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-01-25T22:25:33.158+0000)

I find him incredibly annoying to lane against.

With his ranged harass, boomerang slow, and jump, he's difficult to trade with and is nearly ungankable. And then mega Gnar is big enough to walk out of trouble, or knocks you away.

Think Riot messed up when they buffed the fragility of little Gnar.

rushdown. fiora, darius, irelia, riven, jax, ryze, renekton(sorta), xin zhao, zed, yasuo, akali(post 6), diana, jayce(especially jayce. dat disengage and hard poke), shyvana(her % health debuff ticks MUCH faster), karma(insane poke/mobility/root=death)

JustMyBassCannon3 votes

In the small form, he can't take damage at all. Mini-Gnar is actually champ with the lowest defense stats in the game.

In the big form, he's kinda slow. Mega-Gnar has to almost stand on top of you to catch you, because Boulder Toss is predictable and Crunch is pretty short-range.

De Middle Man3 votes

Honestly, after playing as and against gnars for a while, heres my tips: Shut him down early, he has one of the worst lvl 1-3s in the game Wait till after his Mega gnar to go down to engage, his rage has a cooldown afterwards Use your gap closer after his hops away, for reasons you should know Dodge the fuckin q

SecretAgentHulk5 votes

Dodge the fuckin q

yes

Beerstein2 votes

I just played against him for the 1st time as a returning player. Played AD nid and seemed to do really well against him, only made one mistake where I attacked him right before he went mega since I don't know his kit. Seemed fairly easy to bully him early though.

Talamare2 votes

{quoted}

I just played against him for the 1st time as a returning player. Played AD nid and seemed to do really well against him, only made one mistake where I attacked him right before he went mega since I don't know his kit. Seemed fairly easy to bully him early though.

AD Nid is like playing any Ranged ADC against him

He is basically a short ranged squishy ADC, so any longer ranged one will be able to beat him. Vayne or Graves top lane destroy him before he gets tanky

ThePlasticSpork2 votes

His weakness is that he doesn't have access to whatever strengths he wants at any given moment. There are situations where the Gnar player will want to be mini and situations where he will want to be big, but the Gnar player only has some control over that and in most games transforming into Mega when it's not super convenient will happen several times.

So you'll want to exploit some things when he's mini and other things when he's mega. When he's in mini gnar he's extremely weak to all-in engages due to his low base stats. Pick a champion that is really aggressive early and go in when his rage bar is low, and avoid confrontation when he's about to transform.

Alternatively, pick a ranged top and instead avoid direct confrontation when he's ranged because his W and Q will outdamage you and you'll have a hard time escaping if you overcommit, then when he transforms just abuse your ranged advantage.

Of course, late game he's tanky enough to overcome several of weaknesses in both forms through pure itemization, so you just need to shut him down early because he's a late game monster.

SecretAgentHulk2 votes

Mega Gnar's weakness is distance. I've never figured out how to kill Mega Gnar, so I just hang back until he transforms back and can't clobber me.

Mini Gnar's weakness is CC. If you can get close, he will die. The absolute best time to get him, if you can, is right after he transforms back into Mini Gnar. I play tanks a bunch, and Malph poops on Gnar so hard that, never mind, the metaphor's weird. Anyway, CC. Not much you can do about it in soloQ, but there's counterpicking in draft. As far as itemizing goes, I'd probably buy tenacity boots but I'm not terribly sure what else (Malphite just stacks armor anyway).

Silents4291 votes

I played Gnar the first time during an aram, I hate Mega Gnar, It such a stupid passive in my opinion, but anyway, I play Garen, Trundle, Yorick top a lot, I find just going in and beat the snot out of him wins lane, He really can't do anything in trades at all, He can harass but he can't do anything if you decide to just go hit him.

Its honestly quite funny how badly he trades.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

Mini Gnar is actually very easy to trade with, as long as you have some form of a gap closer and quick burst. Otherwise, he just hops away every time you engage.

I've taken half a Gnar's HP bar as Jax with a simple Q and a WR empowered auto. Granted, it does a lot, but let's not forget Gnar actually counters Jax.

Solaxo1 votes

I like playing Aatrox against him. You simply outheal his poke.

Daedalus11031 votes

As a gnar main, as gnar I've had a lot of trouble with champions like Xin zhao and to an extent, irelia, who can get close to mini gnar and destroy him. He's also susceptible to ganks after he's blown his cc in mega form.

Rikari1 votes

If you do not counterpick him,you have to go in the moment he returns to mini form. Also,you need to make him waste his jump so that he doesn't use it to escape.

FluxBound1 votes

I think gnar is a late game champion, so shorter games is kinda a weakness. A good player would time his ganks and engages right after he goes into mini gnar. As shown by the match between TSM and C9, Gnar has a bit of trouble ulting in a lane as it's too big to find a wall. I've been playing gnar all week and I got steamrolled by a top jinx, maybe that will help

Drunk Rummate1 votes

his gap closer is high cooldown and his base damage is low in mini form. if you can bait out his hop then re-engage on him while it's down you will win every all in, assuming he does not go mega. the best time to do this is right after he transforms back to mini gnar from mega.

Yuumidiocre1 votes

from my experience as gnar. if theres one thing that screws me over the most it is slows and stuns. now im not a pro gnar and i only play him when available but evertime i get stunned im pretty much screwed. and another thing ive noticed is that people tend to get thornmail. screws me over every time. hopes this somewhat helps lol

warpenguin5551 votes

Kassadin, Lissandra, Vladimir, and Irelia are hard matchups vs him

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Gnar is overtuned.

He does have clear weaknesses though. He can't control his ultimate. He's quite good at poking safely, but there's little chance for him to all in you successfully. Squishes very reliably, even more so than Teemo, when caught out.

Konidias1 votes

Quinn definitely stomps Gnar when played right.

It's all just a game of who uses their Q first. Whoever uses it first and misses, is going to lose lane.

Mega Gnar is still extremely annoying though. It would be fine without the huge PERMANENT HP gain. Like it's really not fair to work little Gnar down to 10% hp only to have him gain back a ton after transforming... and then he still has it after he reverts back. So yeah, that free health pot is pretty annoying.

Migrañaboy1 votes

Gnar is good laning and a frail "initiatior/tank" team mate ? Balanced.

Zelnorack1 votes

Darius works pretty well against Gnar. Early levels just Q when he goes in to auto you for harass. You've still gotta play smart; dodge the skillshots and pay attention to his transform.

A good rule of thumb is have him at half life when he does transform. If level 3 you can easily outduel him, but you have to be smart.

He will hop in to land an easy Wallop, but you can counter this by walking towards him when he is hopping and hitting Q. Most Gnars want you to run away and be scared when he is M-Gnar, but you're Darius. Show him the true meaning of dunk. Rush up a brutalizer and.. well... brutalize this little yordle.

Obviously you will not come out on top if you take all the Q in the face and hyper procs.

PerishSoftly1 votes

Gnar's weaknesses (from what I've observed) are twofold. First, if he harasses you at all while you're near minions, he pushes the lane towards you and makes himself more vulnerable to ganks. Second, his early harass is easily sustainable by several champions that can either out-scale him or punish him severely for going to CS. Two champs that come to mind are Xin Zhao and Irelia. Irelia, by building TF brings a high amount of burst, followed by unresistable DPS and couples on either a slow or a stun. Additionally, fighting her when you have minions nearby is tricky as she can use her ult to sap health from them. As the game goes on, Irelia gets tankier and still holds the ability to 1v1 Gnar thanks to her passive and unresistable Hiten Style.

Xin Zhao can bully Gnar hard whether he builds AD or AP. As Gnar usually hops away from you as soon as you gap close, you can grab an early sheen as AP Xin and by maxing E first you front-load a ton of damage onto the little bugger while also being able to trade blows with his mega form thanks to your hefty W passive sustain. (Seriously, with Doran's Ring and about 25 AP you get a health pot every nine attacks in lane.) If Gnar stays in to trade with Xin, he loses out on damage and Xin mitigates a fair amount with his heal. Xin wins. If Gnar panic bounces away and throws a boomerang then he (probably) pushes lane against you, letting you freely sustain for several attacks. Xin wins more. Additionally, Xin's passive reduces the armor that Gnar will eventually buy to resist your powerful auto attacks and Three Talon Strike.

Outside of his transformation Gnar also has no innate sustain at all, so champs that can trade and then heal up quickly will become a problem as whenever he goes in to CS he risks being further poked down.

EDIT: Also, many manaless and some mana-using bruisers like Vi and Renekton have brutal burst that can put the hurt on mini-gnar and even bring CC into the combo so he can't easily escape. All-in him with your combo and tear off a bunch of his life, and he has to play defensively. A defensive Gnar is a Gnar that is losing.

Mast3rMahan1 votes

I like Wukong vs Gnar. It requires you to get flask to start and you can't harass until three. But when you can, if you have ignite, you can easily beat him in lane. Just E, Q, Auto or two, W and when you can ignite him. OR if you can Q without taking a lot of damage, Q, E, W, Since Q gives some armor shred it will help your E do more damage.

Townsa1 votes

So ive played Gnar a little and noticed a couple key things that make him....."difficult." So, the first thing that you could do is make him miss his boomerang return. If he misses it, this forces the cd to be a lot longer, the way you do this is up to you. You can harass and/or knock up depending on what champ you play. Also, reduce his farm as much as possible. Gnar relies on this for items (much like any other champ) and the trick to killing him is to kill him before his Mega form (I know it obvious.) Gnar is very mobile, but once stunned or slowed, hes a sitting duck. Be mindful of his cd's is the key.

junglerboy161 votes

basically, when he was released, he was balanced, but NOBODY could play him right. Riot buffed him because he was faring horrendously. 4 months later, people figured out how strong he was, and with the buffs on top of that, he is really way too strong.

lojician1 votes

Everyone who played toplane knew what was coming the instant riot went "Durr we're going to make a ranged toplaner with a manaless spamshot who is going to be hyper mobile." Notice how the counters people list are mostly ranged. This is the top lane this joke of a balance team has created. Range facerolls melee unless the melee's name is irelia. (Some assassins too so obviously those have to get nerfed.)

This isn't specific to gnar really. While he has a particularly idiot kit many adcs/mages also faceroll top lane. Gnar is just more popular since he's "official meta approved" and transitions into a tank.

The Soulforged1 votes

Irelia

Raxicor1 votes

His boomerang has higher cooldown time now so punish him when he uses it on minions or doesn't catch it. If you can make him miss catching his boomerang, all the better. Same goes with his jump. I've faced a lot of enthusiastic Gnars that have mistakenly bounced at me too early and end up dying. He can be poked down really easy because of his squishiness in mini-form, so champions like Nidalee(them magic spears) and Lissandra do very well against him. Also Nasus' Wither is really helpful on his mobility. You will have to farm under tower a little bit though.

Akesgeroth1 votes

QQ thread in disguise, downvote and move on.

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