With Lethality still being the topic of current conversation, I'd like to talk about Anti-MR items

D2Vincent··3 votes·1,043 views

DISCLAIMER: Long Post Ahead!

Currently, the big issue at the moment is how OP lethality and Armor pen currently is, with Assassins, ADCs and Juggernauts building it most of the time for "TONS OF DAMAGE" but anyway, with that being nerfed soon,(hopefully to at least a maybe manageable spot, but who knows) I'd like to talk AP Itemization and Magic Pen.

Currently, here are all the items that will either give Armor Pen, or Lethality, or shred Armor: item 3147item 3814item 3035item 3036item 3033item 3134item 3071item 3142

And here are the items that give Magic Pen, Shred MR, or allow for increased Magic Damage: item 3001item 3136item 3151item 3091item 3020item 3135

NOTE: If you consider any items that build into other items to not count, the total is 6 anti-armor Items to 5 anti-MR items

This is what we have in the case of comparing anti-armor to anti-MR. Now here's a question, what items do you see MORE right now? What items are more prevalent in the current meta? If you answered the Lethality items, you'd most likely be considered correct, why is this?

To start, I'm going to look at the CURRENT main anti-Armor items (Before they get nerfed next patch):

item 3147: Has Lethality, and Out of Combat Movespeed, which allows for more movement to get into fights, can allow the disabling of vision, and if unseen, will cause your next attack to deal a bunch of bonus TRUE DAMAGE. Good for ADC's especially if they can hide in a bush

item 3814:35 MR, Same Lethality and OOC values, Has a spellshield that lasts 10 seconds despite needing to charge for 1.5 seconds. Can block a Karthus ult, 'Nuff Said.

item 3035, item 3036, and item 3033: Last Whisper has +30% Bonus Armor Pen, the other 2 have +45% Armor Pen instead, LDR gives extra damage based on who has more health than you, Mortal Reminder simply tacks on Grievous Wounds to prevent Healing. LDR is useful for Assassins to perhaps take out the tanks, Mortal is good for anyone against a Heal comp

item 3071: Gives CDR, Health, Movespeed if you hit something, and shreds armor by 5% for 6 seconds, stacking up to 30%. Very useful for just about ANYONE who builds it

item 3142: CDR, Lethality, OOC Movespeed, has an active that gives MORE movespeed. Doesn't quite look too OP on it's own maybe, but heavily prevalent in the current meta.

As for the anti-MR items:

item 3001: Gives AP, CDR, MR, allows enemies to take 10% more Magic damage from you and allies. I don't really see it that often outside of Heavy Mage comps

item 3151: AP, Heath, MPen, allows Magic damage to do DoT equal to 2% of CURRENT Health, effect is doubled if the enemy has some sort of movement impairment in some way (like a slow). I feel like this item doesn't do it's job very well except for be a decent damage amp for Teemo Shrooms.

item 3091: Attack Speed, MR, amd On-Hit, deals 40 extra Magic Damage that steals 5% MR from an enemy (Stacks 5 times). I don't see this very often outside of Teemo, maybe Cho'gath, and MAYBE Kog'maw.

item 3020: MPen, and Movespeed. Nothing too complicated, the staple of mages everywhere

item 3135: AP, Makes all Magic damage ignore 35% of target's MR (applies BEFORE resistances). Also used on just about all Mages

Now, looking at all the items here, the main issue is that a LOT more champions use the anti-Armor items than the anti-MR items, and that's because while the anti-Armor items are more generalistic in nature, the anti-MR items are WAAAAY more niche, so they can't be used by everyone to their full potential.

So, as a possible solution, I have a possible change for a couple of those anti-MR items:

item 3091: The Problem I see with this item is that there are very few champs who actually use this item, and those that do use it don't really use it that often anyway. My proposition is that we replace it with an item that does something similar, but instead of Attack speed, give it AP and have the unique passive work on spell damage.

item 3151: From the information I gather, this item is supposed to be against tanks who build health but NOT MR. Problem is, most often tanks will build Health AND MR if you're a proper threat and you deal magic damage. However I feel this would be more at home for champs who need to be tanky, but have to deal with a tank comp if need be. So my change to this would be to change the passive to deal MAX health damage instead of Current health damage, but maybe lower the AP down to say, 60 to compensate.

item 3135: This item is from what I can tell, a Literal stat stick, with the ability for your damage to ignore 35% of your opponent's MR. Just Keep in mind this applies BEFORE Magic Pen is actually applied so your other MPen items will STILL remove MR off of your opponent. I will admit as an item it is a little bit strong, but what else are mages supposed to do? If a tank is building both resistances AND Lethality (like a good portion of Top laners these days) they'll be able to kill you before you can barely do anything to their health, but otherwise it's pretty much OP to everyone else. My change to this is to lower the AP to 50, lower it's passive to ignore 25% MR, and then have it build into 2 different items, both similar to how Last Whisper works and both having the ability to ignore 40% MR. One variant will do extra damage based on who has more health than you, the other one will apply Grievous wounds when the opponent is , BUT the condition is that it shares the EXACT same Unique passive as Morellonomicon so that they both can't be abused together.

TL:DR While Lethality will be nerfed next patch, I'd like to see a rework of Wit's End, Liandry's and Void Staff

5 Comments

Warlord Scrap1 votes

Giving another ap grievous would could help because currently non mana ap champs cant get grievous wounds.

A Vel Koz Main2 votes

Buy Morellonomicon anyway, the drawback for you not having a resource is having to buy things that aren't cost efficient:

400 Mana and Mana Regen on Kill/Assist from Morello at a higher cost, but you get the AP CDR and Grievous Wounds. You just lose out on the mana stat for paying extra for the other stats because you don't have a resource, it's quite fair tbh

Warlord Scrap1 votes

so only grievous cause hitting that 40% cooldown is stupid easy on ap.

Zielmann1 votes

I would also point out that if you get Liandry's, Abyssal, and Void Staff, you're not really going to pushing the upper limits in terms of raw AP numbers that you end up with. If you're a mage with decent scaling, you may have the pen you want but be sacrificing on your scaling. While the lethality items aren't the highest AD items in the game, they're up there. But the lethality champs benefit from the lethality and raw AD on both their spells and their auto-attacks.

Furthermore, there's only a single mpen component item (guise) which builds into only one of the mpen options in the game. So if you do go for Abyssal or Void, the component items only grant you moderate amounts of AP (focusing on damage stats, not so much the MR in abyssal), and you don't get the benefit of the mpen (or abyssal's damage amp) until you complete the full item. Again here, the AD champions get a better ramp up in item power because they can build the Dirk first to get some AD and Lethality, and then pick up the rest of the AD and utility from the combined items when they complete it.

And speaking of utility, the AP items you list don't offer anywhere close to the utility available to AD champs who go the lethality route.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

item 3001 is no longer an anti-MR item.

Also, the key difference between Armor and MR is how high the general values are, as base Armor is usually between 70 and 100 at level 18, whereas base MR either 30 or 53.4. Against the first MR value (on ranged champs), MPen runes, Sorc boots and Void Staff allows you to deal true damage. For the latter (on melee champs), you need an addional Haunting Guise to deal true damage.

Contrast a full Lethality build, on the upcoming 7.4. 45 Lethality from items, 24 from runes, 6 from Masteries. Total 75 Lethality. That only deals true damage to the champions with the lowest Armor values, and requires way more of an investment (3 completed items = 9000 gold, Lethality in both reds and quints is leaving you without much additional AD early (on APs, MPen reds have no such cost).

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