My problem with Yasuo isn't that he is supposedly broken, or frustrating to play against

YumaS2Astral··79 votes·4,956 views

I just got tired of having to face Yasuo on either team. Seriously, he is so overpicked... I am even starting to have headaches with the many times I had to play against Yasuo today (he somehow managed to escape the ban phase at all my games today). I am tired of having to dodge those tornados, I am tired of having my skillshots blocked by this windwall, I am tired of constantly hearing "hasagi" "ton" "sorye" during the games.

I don't even understand why so many people pick this champion, I've played Yasuo myself a few times, and I've found him to be boring. Yes, even though many people consider him to be fun. I don't really believe that being "fun to play" is the sole reason to why Yasuo is constantly picked. There are many champions who could be considered fun but they are not nearly as picked as Yasuo. For example, Katarina, Fizz, LeBlanc, etc.

I just got tired of facing him, or even having him on my team. It became stale. Sometimes I wanted that Riot just gutted this champion to oblivion, so that I couldn't face him anymore. Even if he is balanced.

100 Comments

OurLestrade50 votes

He's flashy and he's very anime, that's generally why. Plus he's an AD champion, meaning if you mess up your spells you can still get away with just slapping people to deth :P

Zedex2 votes

what does anime have to do with League of Legends..?

Battlecast Sona17 votes

nothing, but it does have to do with why people might choose one champion over another

Jabril10 votes

its just like overwatch where everyone picks and refuses to switch off genji and hanzo. they are anime and "cool"

MagicDragon3001 votes

He also has a decent lore to him and is pretty strong right now to begin with

bourbonowns32 votes

Yasuo is building Phantom Dancer into tanky DPS items and shitting on people? Yasuo is #1 play rate Top laner and #4 play rate Mid laner? Yasuo has a 55% winrate with people who are experienced playing him?

Better nerf Vlad some more, oh and Shen just to be safe.

-Riot games

Chad Te Employee4 votes

It is for worlds so shut up about shen nerfs

Ralanr35 votes

It's not like they're gonna revert them after.

BioticBrony7 votes

They already reverted the damage to minions and monsters which is nice.

l Helios l1 votes

Vlad got buffed!!!! His HP cost on his E is down now.

BioticBrony6 votes

It is also a nerf because he uses that health cost to increase the damage of the ability.

YumaS2Astral6 votes

[{quoted}](name=METROlD PRlME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tFvb6dRU,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-27T14:26:09.670+0000)

Yasuo is building Phantom Dancer into tanky DPS items and shitting on people? Yasuo is #1 play rate Top laner and #4 play rate Mid laner? Yasuo has a 55% winrate with people who are experienced playing him?

Better nerf Vlad some more, oh and Shen just to be safe.

-Riot games

Speaking of Vlad, I don't understand why people continue to ban him, since he has a 46% winrate (one of the lowest in the game), only 3% playrate, has some of the worst statistics in the game compared to other top laners, and has a very high skillcap (he is hard to master, he is like Riven in that you will rarely face a good player with that champion, although Vlad still has a lower skillcap than Riven)

Also, his healing is very easy to counter, like, literally just a single item 3123 will shut down him during teamfights. Also, if the enemy has any form of magic resistance, Vlad will deal low damage, especially because he is not going to buy magic penetration items early.

Meanwhile, monsters like Jhin, Ashe, and even Ahri, have a lower banrate than Vladimir, despite the fact that they win more game and are statistically stronger champions currently.

Zedex5 votes

Ahri? really?

Sinlaire2 votes

down here in bronze ahri is pretty bad for people who cant dodge skill shots and let themselves get kited. im sure she isn't nearly as bad further up.

TwinkiePro1 votes

It's not that I can't dodge the skillshots, its that every single ahri is always oppressive. ALWAYS. Always poking with autos, throwing Q out to dodge everything and poke simultaneously. All I can do as Kat is throw a knife everytime its off cooldown and hope shes near minions so I can try to poke back.

Oh, I'm actually ahead? 4/1 to her 1/4? nah, she still wins the game 8/4 because she has a better pull than blitz and does more true damage throughout the entire game than Master Yi.

Fuck that fox.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

A) You're Kat. You expect to do well in laning?

B) Max range Q is easy to dodge. Especially if you're Kat. You have a decent base MS and usually start boots 4.

C) Better pull than Blitz? Better CC than than Blitz hook, but it's usually maxed last meaning a 1s CC where you slowly walk towards her. Yes its a very good CC, but its all Ahri offers outside of damage.

D) Only about 1/4 of her damage is true damage, and she can't kill Tanks with it like Yi. MR and HP are still very effective against her.

Atanchan1 votes

I really don't understand. Either this guy must literally run into every OTP Ahri smurf, or literally every other person he faces has been lobotomized. Especially the Yis, if they're doing less true damage than an Ahri.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Eh, according to Champion.gg, a higher % of Ahri's damage is True compared to Yi (23% to 20%), but thats because shes more reliant on it than YI is to kill anyone not a tank.

TwinkiePro1 votes

Percentage doesn't convey all of it. MasterYi : 20.4 of ~19k, which is nearly 4k. Ahri : 23.9 of ~24k, which is nearly 6k. 2 thousand is a fairly large difference, especially since hers is more reliable.

It should also be kept in mind that Yi generally jungles, Grabbing both red smite and red buff. Both of these give some true damage on hit, with red buff giving an aditional DoT and a slow. Yet he still doesn't match up.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Because Ahri gets time in lane to hit with true damage, has poke in sieges to apply it, and generally lives longer. Yi's is stronger when he gets to use it, which isn't nearly as often as Ahri.

TwinkiePro1 votes

That's true, her damage is much more consistent because she lanes. Yi can't hold a candle to it simply because he is hardly viable in lane though.

If we compared laners, vel'koz, fiora and vayne would be the go to. Vel'koz is far more spammy however, and only has to land 3 hits of his passive to proc true damage.

Vayne needs 3 auto attacks to pop it, and it scales off of full hp.

Fiora probably has the most reliable source of true damage. Even then, she lands a 20.4% of ~21k, still less than ahri.

Of the three, only Vel'koz does more true damage. Interestingly, he has a higher winrate too, although I'm sure that has more to do with his readily available CC and range.

TwinkiePro1 votes

I never expect to do well in laning as a melee versus a ranged, thats a given. But it seems to be a very consistent theme against ahris I play against, as they all feel the need to poke with everything all the time, even as Xerath. As Kat, she missed all but 1 charm and a couple of her Orbs, as I could E away if I felt the need to dodge it.

It's better in the sense that she can perform her combo. and line up other CC easier as it pulls your enemy out. Add in an actual blitz crank and you can call yourself dead. It Has a longer range and shorter cooldown then blitz's hook, so it can be considered much more reliable, especially since her mobility is much harder to predict when her ultimate is up.

Hp is the best against burst, there is no arguing that, but the amount of true damage she dishes out is only outmatch by vel'koz. I answered the rest in my other post.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Blitzhook range is 925 compared to Charm's 975, but is faster at 1750 speed compared to Charm's 1600 with a longer CD. I'd rather be hit by Charm because you can potentially live that, but if Blitz hook hits you're basically dead. Charm is usually lethal too, but most Mage's CCs are as well.

If she didn't have the true damage, she'd be pretty garbage because her bases and ratios don't really match up to other mid laners.

Sinlaire1 votes

I've actually played that match up from both sides several times and i can say from experience it's actually pretty easy to do decent against her as the kat.

If she throws Q she cant poke so you're free to return with bouncing blade. if you want to trade walk to the side of the minion wave and run straight at her. Then do one of two things.

  1. wait for her to start a casting animation and shunpo her OR
  2. wait for her to start casting and shunpo onto a minion next to her.

90-95% every ahri player will throw Q and E at the exact same time. If you run straight at her with no minion black they will ALMOST ALWAYS go for the easy charm+Q combo. as soon as she starts casting just shunpo away from it and her only damage source is W. Which as kat is easy as hell to out trade with an E+Q+W combo. bait the fox and take her down easy.

just dont do it when she's close to tower. if she gets smart she'll throw the combo with a jungler in the bush so you blow your only escape and set yourself up to die.

TwinkiePro1 votes

I kinda have a feel for the match up as I've gone against Ahri many times as other midlaners. I'm fairly new to Kat and occasionally whiff a combo (pretty badly too), so going against the one champ I despise the most really irks me.

I won laning phase, beating her 3-0 as she couldn't predict my movements accurately enough, but my gripe is that she only died once more and picked up 8 kills up until the end of the game. It's like watching post rework skarner destroy even when failing.

Battlecast Sona3 votes

Vladimir is not really a toplaner anymore. All of his success in LCS was mid, wasn't it? I think the reason his winrate and such is so low is because people are still trying to force him into top lane...

xelaker1 votes

{quoted}

Speaking of Vlad, I don't understand why people continue to ban him, since he has a 46% winrate (one of the lowest in the game), only 3% playrate, has some of the worst statistics in the game compared to other top laners, and has a very high skillcap (he is hard to master, he is like Riven in that you will rarely face a good player with that champion, although Vlad still has a lower skillcap than Riven)

Also, his healing is very easy to counter, like, literally just a single item 3123 will shut down him during teamfights. Also, if the enemy has any form of magic resistance, Vlad will deal low damage, especially because he is not going to buy magic penetration items early.

Meanwhile, monsters like Jhin, Ashe, and even Ahri, have a lower banrate than Vladimir, despite the fact that they win more game and are statistically stronger champions currently.

most champs can eat adcs if you focus well. ahri...well she sells skins so she cant be nerfed

Bodkins Odds1 votes

He's not building item 3046 , he's building item 3078 item 3022 into full tank. Sometimes with a item 3072 on top.

RamRanchDressing1 votes

Yasuo shouldn't be building Trinity anymore, because the crit chance is gone and 20% CDR is a waste on Yasuo.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo shouldn't be building Trinity anymore, because the crit chance is gone and 20% CDR is a waste on Yasuo.

Trinity Force is still a very good item due to the Phage passive and Spellblade procs. While the crit chance is gone, tank Yasuo does not need it. While 20% CDR is not very good on Yasuo, it is by no means wasted. It is helpful due to his W (which has a very, very high cooldown for a non-ultimate ability) and his ult (which already has a low cooldown for an ult and can be reduced even further with CDR)

I is Illiterate13 votes

Manaless, flashy champions like Yasuo, Zed, Riven, Renekton (not as much this one any more) are popular because not being gated by mana allows you to just say "screw it!" and have tons of fun, while feeling super cool. That's why I love Renekton top. :)

YumaS2Astral7 votes

[{quoted}](name=I is Illiterate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tFvb6dRU,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-08-27T15:02:11.195+0000)

Manaless, flashy champions like Yasuo, Zed, Riven, Renekton (not as much this one any more) are popular because not being gated by mana allows you to just say "screw it!" and have tons of fun, while feeling super cool. That's why I love Renekton top. :)

I would also include Katarina on that list. She is a pain to face at mid lane due to that (you try to harass her? too bad you are gated by mana, while she can spam her spells anytime she wants), especially since she is snowbally as hell. I even ban her when Yasuo is already banned, as even at platinum elo, she still somehow always manages to get fed and snowball out of control. I hope that her rework fixes that.

That's why I think that manaless champions with very high damage and mobility should not exist. They should pay in some way for their damage and mobility. It is just bad design when Riot creates a champion with so much damage and mobility without anything to limit that.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

It's not bad design (katarinas is though hence rework)

You just don't anything a bout design. Just because you get annoyed that you as a player can't deal with them. While plenty of people can (almost every single champion thats people are complaining snout currently are shit in LCS)

High damage high mobility is traded for low impact abilities Or high cds. Generally very little cc and if they do have it; its gated. They're also some of the squishest champions in the game. They're also generally difficult to play but have high rewards for it.

Plenty of weaknesses

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

High CDs? Manaless champions typically have some of the lowest cooldowns across the entire roster.

Low impact? Manaless champions usually have AOE damage, mobility, and potent CC tools. See Riven , Yasuo, Renekton, Katarina, Gnar. Yasuo has some of the most high impact abilities in the game, able to negate three fourths of the roster and extend CC durations.

Calling Garen, Renekton, Tank Yasuo, or Gnar squishy is laughable.

Renekton, Yasuo, and Garen have extremely binary gameplay that usually revolves around out-staTting their opponent, and all Kat needs is CC down to murder everyone. Plus, not having to worry about mana means they can freely spam abilities at will with no repercussions. Difficult to play my ass.

Manaless champions SHOULD be gated by long cooldowns and/or low impact. Currently, none are.

Guy Fox Teemo2 votes

The Bias is real in this post.

Yasuo's Q is a incredibly low impact ability, his W is a high impact abilitly.

Yasuo's Q is a short CD , Yasuos W is TWENTY SIX SECOND CD.

Yasuo's E is a low impact ability its a short dash that does almost no damage, and can't be used more then one on the same person. It has a short CD. That also needs to be used on enemys.

Yasuo's R is impactful as ultimates should be but has a low cd due to the fact that its incredibly situational.

They're all gated and have weakness's in there own way. No set class of champions should all have same the weakness's, that leads to rules and rules create boring and binary champions who are all the same.

Manaless champions are the LEAST popular champions in the LCS due to unreliability and having low impact if not played to perfection. Gnar is an exception but I dont play him enough to know his balance.

KoggyStyle1 votes

you dident include e which is why hes a bitch to play against.

im fine with dmg im fine with spell block im fine with a well deserved ult... but free mobility no.

nerf his e partialy revert w give him damage back.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

Yasuo's E is a low impact ability its a short dash that does almost no damage, and can't be used more then one on the same person. It has a short CD. That also needs to be used on enemys.

Yes I did include it?

KoggyStyle1 votes

LeeSin

General Theritt1 votes

As a Gnar main, and a main of a lot of these champs BESIDES yasuo, i'd argue their cooldowns are pretty long for what they are built for.

Gnar : The little dude needs his resets and proper positioning. timing your jump, boulders, and boomerangs as well as consistently watching your w and current position is vital to play Gnar. His ult (when not in jungle) is extremely annoying to land successfully, but also game changing. He is pretty powerful, and needs to be tuned down a bit, but otherwise, what holds him down is that he builds tanky, but his mini form is his biggest weakness early game. Renekton and Irelia can heavily punish Gnar for his aggressive gameplay early on, and later on good AD carries can take him down before his CC threat as mega Gnar is close enough to devastate the team. He's quite complex, and sometimes overwhelming to newer players because of his various build paths as a tank.

Renekton : Brutally simplistic for one reason. You played a carry top lane. He didn't want you to. If Soraka is the cold shower of league, then Renekton is the rude awakening call to anyone who wants to play carries in the top lane like Fiora. He's built to punish characters who play aggressively, using his manaless harass to quickly dodge in and out of his opponent's control, stun them, burst them, then wildly dash away, or otherwise killing you. His early pressure is why he's so devastating to characters with weak early games or aren't pseudo-tanky into mid-game or raw tanks. Not only that, but he's been slowly dissipating over the past years in favor of more team-oriented characters rather than just a one-lane slaughterhouse, and the decay of top lane carries has been very prominent as well, being rare picks into comps where other characters take the job the top lane could have. In solo-queue or dyna queue where top lane carries are actually quite dominant? Oh lord he's the most annoying thing on earth.

Garen : "Demacia." He's a bruiser tank, and yes, while annoying that he's good at almost any stage of the game, certain champs MOW Garen down relentlessly. Jinx and Kog'maw being his most prominent Nightmares. With kog'maw 's changes, and jinx's, he's pretty counterable, and while his true damage is powerful, its built for shutting down the opponent carries or the most consistent killers, usually priority targets that can shred his HP bar if not careful. Very useful, but not effective in most cases. his cooldowns also HAVE to be low, or else he'd be Darius with even LESS impact in any stage of the game. His ult doesn't reset, and his villain ability only works one at a time, forcing him to either focus his current target during a teamfight, if he's lucky, change targets after a kill, and continue, or simply try and poke at them while defending his team. he's mostly a bullet sponge who bursts a target, then spins off if the rest of the team focuses him down.

Each one of them has very defined weaknesses. If you see a first pick Renekton? Pick a tank into him. Malphite is extremely effective as his entire kit focuses on absorbing AD threats thanks to his passive bonus armor, and his ult denies a lot of engages Renekton might try to make for his team. Garen is as simple as picking a tank mower. Vayne, Ashe (if you go that route), Kog'maw, or Jinx. He's buff, but he cannot truly contest to their true damage and % max HP damage or % current HP rapid-fire tactics. Gnar? Irelia. dear lord, Irelia is crippling to Gnar. Renekton also works if you know him well enough, punishing him after he transforms, dashing in, stunning, Q burst, and dash out.

Yasuo doesn't need a defense right now. He's currently got no true "weakpoint" unless his team is losing DRAMATICALLY or doesn't have knockup, and even then, a good yasuo can make insane 1v5 comebacks (looking at you trinimmortal). Riot is looking for a way to nerf him before he gets out of control, but its hard since the items he abuses are FORCED items. They aren't supposed to work on a champion like him, but they do. Like Tank ekko and Fizz, its abuse of items not being used as intended, but rather forced and proving to be a ball of stats that most players cannot overcome. His cooldowns and abilities are honestly fair, but paired all together they can be overwhelming, and seemingly flat out broken if Yasuo gets ahead and keeps his lead.

I noticed a Manaless top laner mage/tank not mentioned. Rumble . You simply don't see this guy because his impact power is high, but his skill curve is absolutely ridiculous. a good rumble is a great watch. sadly just not enough people like his design and kit enough to warrant a higher play-rate, and his skill curve leaves most rumble mains who do not group queue mostly trapped, as his carry power is quite reliant on his team knowing precisely what plays to make, and when to make those plays. An example of C9 vs APX, where Ray incorrectly places an important rumble ult, and even being the most fed member, falls prey to his team not recovering and making the smart decisions, instead aggressively dashing down the lane to get sneaky. Not only that, but his overheat actually prevents him using skills, something entire opposite to your post.

Katarina Is just Kat. She's getting her rework, but she's a somewhat easy champion that rewards kills with instant CD resets by surviving her lane, which is notoriously controversial. Hence the rework.

Rengar Kat's problem but in jungle form, and too an extreme. He's either a complete predatory god who will strike you down, or flop up, and become a CC bot for his bolas. Hence the rework.

Shyvana Is a special case not of cooldowns, but rather... an assortment of abilities. Her abilities on their own are okay-ish, not great, but not bad. But she's a ball of power waiting to be unleash through itemization. She's like Viktor in the way that on her own, she's pretty good, decent power, but items make her a complete monster. she scales hard a requires a lot of farm to do so, so her counterplay is usually enemy counterjungle control.

RekSai is another case, because her cooldowns rely on her movement and control. if anyone remembers her release, everyone can agree on one thing. She. was. Insane. an unstoppable monster. Nowadays, she's more raw utility than anything, a jack-of-all-trades jungler who can build tanky, still deal decent damage, and counterjungle her opponents to starvation, usually forcing them to ask for their laners to channel CS towards them, or hunt down and kill rek'sai so they may farm in peace. counterplay is simply picking someone not prone to counterjungling, like Gragas, who can usually survive the duel, and still has the utility to scale into late game extremely well, regardless of farm.

Riven has the exact same problem as Rumble in AD form. Riven's reliant on skilled play and good calls, as well as a team willing to sacrifice and let her do some carrying. Otherwise, her overall status a duelist stands, but her teamfighting is not the best. Her recent buff has everyone quite worried, as bringing back her high dueling potential might lead to the revival of Renekton which a lot of players forget, as he dominates a lane against an inexperienced Riven. Her cooldowns are low because without that outplay potential, she becomes simply a weak opponent, usually requiring CS to come back into the game.

Kled has been also quite the masterpiece. his cooldowns are low, but they are also quite pivotal. They require Kled to stick to his opponent, and ONE opponent. Kled becomes useless even with his high tankiness and absurd damage because if he does not successfully mow down his target... well... He's dead. Without skaarl or with Skaarl on a cooldown or his courage not full enough, he's a sitting duck if his opponents can survive his burst.

Finally, I'll show you my analysis of "HP use tanks" Zac Aatrox DrMundo Mordekaiser . Its obvious. They're built to be pure tanks or tanks that heal off of their opponents inexperience or lack of knowledge on the champion. Aatrox and mundo are countered by 1 item alone item 3033 and Zac is slightly countered by it, but he's a more noob friendly and honestly quite safe pick. They provide the ability to soak up ridiculous amounts of damage or continue and assault or kite due to their overall regen. Morde is a special case, but he's best described by Stonewall008 "You either win gloriously, or burn in a hellish fire". He's one of the few that can be countered by simply avoiding a champion he's strong against.

Manaless characters have counterplay, but a lot of players just refuse to use the counterplay because they haven't tried expanding horizons and learning the tricks to overall overcoming them. I won't talk about Energy, because that is resources, and does require EXTREME detail even further than this.

Note: These are my thoughts as pure analytics. Not all of this is entirely written in stone, and there are probably players far higher than me who know even more about the champions and how to play as or against them. I understand if you personally differ, but these are mostly from a pure analytical standpoint, and I personally threw out my opinions on them because I understand favoritism does not result in a firm grasp of character knowledge. Hope you had fun reading.

Mira Arya Enthe11 votes

{quoted}

I just got tired of having to face Yasuo on either team. Seriously, he is so overpicked... I am even starting to have headaches with the many times I had to play against Yasuo today (he somehow managed to escape the ban phase at all my games today). I am tired of having to dodge those tornados, I am tired of having my skillshots blocked by this windwall, I am tired of constantly hearing "hasagi" "ton" "sorye" during the games.

I don't even understand why so many people pick this champion, I've played Yasuo myself a few times, and I've found him to be boring. Yes, even though many people consider him to be fun. I don't really believe that being "fun to play" is the sole reason to why Yasuo is constantly picked. There are many champions who could be considered fun but they are not nearly as picked as Yasuo. For example, Katarina, Fizz, LeBlanc, etc.

I just got tired of facing him, or even having him on my team. It became stale. Sometimes I wanted that Riot just gutted this champion to oblivion, so that I couldn't face him anymore. Even if he is balanced.

Agreed. Tired of him in every, single, damn game. I don't mind him as a champion. But an excess of anything is annoying. Ashe is my favorite champion by lore. But I am tired of seeing her just because Riot has let her get so out of control OP and their nerfs barely hit on what the pros said was the problem. "Her early game Q burst damage" was not affected by a nerf to the duration of her Q.

Reikken3 votes

he's only overplayed in normal if you play ranked or ARAM or the featured game mode, you'll see a lot less Yasuo

Ok sure but why4 votes

aram

Count Zubat4 votes

All RANDOM all mid

R FLASH XD3 votes

{quoted}

he's only overplayed in normal if you play ranked or ARAM or the featured game mode, you'll see a lot less Yasuo

Only overplayed in normals cause he is banned in ranked :)

chipndip16 votes

{quoted}

he's only overplayed in normal if you play ranked...you'll see a lot less Yasuo

I can confirm...

...this is not true. -_-

Çhåryzård3 votes

Because he's spammable and uses no mana unlike most midlaners

Midlaners with skillshots have a hard time doing stuff to him because he can just constantly dash to avoid it and if you do hit him his shield kicks in or he blocks it with his wall

D2Vincent1 votes

Meanwhile, Riot says Karthus is "Perfectly Balanced" despite the fact that any Yasuo (or most mids for that matter) can buy a pair of boots and manage to dodge ALL of his Q shots, and with this Bruiser/Carry Meta (not entirely a "Tank Meta", I read the boards too ;P ), Most enemies can tank most of the shots and still do a decent amount of damage. I even tried going tank in a Hexakill Match and with FULL BUILD I still got melted by Yasuo (and partially ahri at times, but not nearly as much)

Bladerunner77774 votes

Karthus is fking scary in the hands of good karthus players

CrazFight 1 votes

Have you seen his win rate? I think we can Finally start calling him op.

Bladerunner77774 votes

This is what happens when Riot fixes bugs

Exhibit B: Azir when they fixed his bugs/QoL buff

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