Can the next MF rework be focused around her ult and lanephase?

VDc0zCqe0w··7 votes·610 views

I feel like many ADCs right now have got a clear buildpath and clear strenghts/weaknesses while MF is clearly lacking on this aspect.

Let's take Ashe for example: her kit clearly suggests a classic heavy crit-AD-AS build, she's clearly a carry built around utility and she feels like one.

Vayne ..now many people don't like Vayne but let it go for a second and look at her kit objectively: it makes sense, she's an assassin-hypercarry who focuses on duels and outplays, and her buildpath does make sense while being different at the same time from the classic crit build (item 3153 being the core)

Twitch : same story, he can even go funky with item 3153 and item 3142, it is a very different and fun buildpath that does not feel like the classic crit build at all.

Sivir: everything about her kit makes sense (except maybe spellshield but i find it to be a quite cool spell), can build an early item 3093 and abuse her waveclear-push to gain advantage, then she builds quite like Ashe.

Now....MissFortune just doesn't have a clear buildpath, and it's even more sad because it used to be a really particular buildpath focusing heavy AD and heavy armor pen, something like this item 3072 item 3071 item 3035 to abuse her ult scalings; it was a very cool build that no other AD carry used and it felt very different because she worked like no other ADC worked, applying AOE armor shred and being very useful to AD-centered teams, while now her buildpath is the same as Ashe's or Sivir's (minus early avarice), and her niche is gone. (you can still apply BC stacks but her ult still deals no damage and doesn't benefit from the armor pen)

Her kit screams "AD Caster" except for her W, but the scalings are messed up so the most optimal build is a classic crit/AD/AS one (item 3078 is decent but it's very risky).

This is the core problem about MF: it's not her lack of escape, it's not her passive and not even her bad lategame scaling, her problem is that she has no identity and a buildpath that does not fit her preferred playstyle.

12 Comments

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

RIP someone makes a big WoT with detailed explanations and gets downvoted without even a comment T_T

those boards tho, i can understand you don't give a damn about MF but don't downvote for the yucks at least

Marthian3 votes

I didn't downvote, but I'm not upvoting. As someone that mains Miss Fortune, I do not want her kit to revolve around her ult again. Right now, she's mainly an auto attack focused champion that deals good hybrid damage, but also has an ult that is pretty good for team fights (position well and it tears teams apart.)

And people comparing her to her old kit say she's an AD caster. She isn't though. Her W screams "hit them with your auto attacks" since the AA booster and AS boost active. Her Q doesn't really have much caster going on, it applies on hits as well (W and lifesteal), and her ult applies stacks of her W (dealing more damage the more they have, even being hit hard if they had stacks to begin with.)

Her identity is a Jack of all trades. She can do just about anything, and despite what TV tropes wants you to think, being a Jack of all trades in League has NEVER been a bad thing. Unlike some other carries, she can fit into any composition well (with some being obviously better than others). Yes you can point out others do things she does, but better, but can said champion do EVERYTHING Miss Fortune does?

She has a solid early game (she's a Lane bully and Double up HURTS), she roams very well, deals mixed damage, has some usable utility in E, has some good dueling potential, has a great mid game as well, and never truly falls off at any point in the game (She's not a hyper carry late game, but you can't simply ignore her either.)

And finally for a good build path that capitalizes on her current kit very well: item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 and last slot is up to personal preference. You don't need to focus on her ult, you shouldn't focus on building around her ult, and I hope they don't ever rework her into the Katarina of ADCs: Only good for her ult, very situationally useful otherwise.

Sightless664 votes

Right now, she's mainly an auto attack focused champion that deals good hybrid damage, but also has an ult that is pretty good for team fights (position well and it tears teams apart.)

Eh. The ult hasn't been tearing up team fights in a while. The only time I find it doing that is when a teammates finds a great opportunity to lock everyone down first, but usually that's enough to win the fight regardless of whether I was using MF ult or playing an entirely different champion. It's generally only useful for making my autoattacks hurt more as a follow-up.

Her identity is a Jack of all trades.

That's a pretty shitty identity, particularly since she can't fit in every team. There are certain enemy compositions that she desperately doesn't want to face, and there are quite a few teammates that she has just no synergy with. She can't fit in every team, at least not more than most other carries can. She can succeed in many teams that she doesn't fit in, but that's just because she's strong.

Her identity isn't being a jack of all trades. It's being a lane bully who autoattacks for significant damage later in the game. That's it. There's nothing special there. The stacks don't have any special gameplay around them (aside from gating her ult to be mainly, Her roaming ganking isn't strong enough to constitute an identity given her complete lack of disruption.

Yes you can point out others do things she does, but better, but can said champion do EVERYTHING Miss Fortune does?

Yep. They might not do it quite as well because they might not be as strong, but they probably fill just as many roles and team comps as MF does, if not more. This seriously isn't a strength of hers. I legitimately would like to know why you believe this about her, because in all my time playing MF I've never felt for even a second that she belongs in a ton of team comps. I usually feel like I'm forcing her into games she doesn't belong in and getting away with it just because she's strong (or, probably more often, not getting away with it and doing less well than I would have with another ADC).

being a Jack of all trades in League has NEVER been a bad thing.

It can be, if it means that the champion doesn't actually bring anything of their own to a game. If a champion has nothing special, if they have nothing that makes them unique, if they just play as the basic archetype of their class and don't expand on it in any interesting ways, then why ever play them if they aren't just numerically overpowered? That's exactly how MF plays. She lane bullies, and then midgame and after she just right clicks after pressing W. Everything else plays itself or is superfluous. That's the problem with MF. She's dull and overly simple. She's my third most-played champion, and I think she's really just stupidly dull sometimes.

The ultimate needs to actually be part of her identity, because it's something actually unique and interesting that she has. It should be strong, but it isn't. It's mediocre. If she's gonna have something like that, it should actually feel independently strong instead of tickling the enemies and then making her autoattacks hurt more later. The entire "ult applies stacks" mechanic needs to get curbstomped.

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

{quoted}

Her identity is a Jack of all trades. She can do just about anything, and despite what TV tropes wants you to think, being a Jack of all trades in League has NEVER been a bad thing. Unlike some other carries, she can fit into any composition well (with some being obviously better than others). Yes you can point out others do things she does, but better, but can said champion do EVERYTHING Miss Fortune does?

But don't you feel like that, whatever you're doing in game with MF, you simply are not doing anything special/fun?

You just rightclick here and there, her kit is totally lacking in the satisfaction aspect: you just run around abusing your stupidly high numbers on base stats/Q/W and that's it, there is no depth about that, no customization of build, no utility, nothing.

There is really nothing more stupid than pressing your R just too see nothing happening AT ALL, it should wreck people, no AD carry has an AOE ult like that, Jinx comes close but Jinx ult is a finisher, not an opener like MF ult, and the most particular fact about MF ult is the stacking part: it synergizes perfectly with BC, a synergy no other AD carry has (Sivir's ricochet-Q combo comes close).

For example this guy Lucian is a jack of all trades, but damn he makes sense at least and he doesn't feel like you're just mashing autos randomly.

{quoted}

And finally for a good build path that capitalizes on her current kit very well: item 3031 item 3006 item 3046 item 3072 item 3035 and last slot is up to personal preference.

But don't you see that this is basically Ashe's build? The problem is that on Ashe it actually makes sense, because she's build around crit and autos, MF is half built around autos and the other half around spells right now, but she used to be 3/4 spells and 1/4 autos.

A classic ADC build like that is meant to be used on a champion that is made around autos and crits, Sivir uses that build (with statikk instead of PD) because she autoattacks 24/7 (i mean she even got a reset on W), MF does not autoattack all the time, hell, her Q, her E and her R actually HINDER her autos.

{quoted}

That's exactly how MF plays. She lane bullies, and then midgame and after she just right clicks after pressing W. Everything else plays itself or is superfluous.

god bless, this pictures MF perfectly atm: you don't do shit but stomp the lane then rightclick people randomly, throw an R in sometimes just to see it dealing no damage while you got your standard boring ADC build

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Miss Fortune from a balance perspective is fine in my opinion. She isn't the best ADC, but she definitely isn't the worst. She feels so weak because everything she does can be outclassed by another ADC. Take Vayne, who is arguably the best duelist in the game. She clearly duels better than Miss Fortune, but Miss Fortune has a significantly better teamfight than Vayne. Or take Sivir, she clearly teamfights better than Miss Fortune, but Miss Fortune can duel much more easily.

Miss Fortune feels weak because she is outclassed in most things she does, but she is probably the only ADC that has the luxury of having basically everything an ADC can possibly have. She can do anything but be a late game hypercarry, and I actually think Miss Fortune has the strongest early game of all ADCs. Since she unlike Caitlyn can all-in somebody whenever she wants to, and she actually counters Caitlyn since her Q has pretty high range and her passive lets her ignore any of Caitlyn's abilities as a form of poke. Aside from early game, the rest of her kit is easily outclassed by another ADC. Mixed Damage? Corki. Mobility? Kalista. Sieging? Caitlyn. Pushing? Sivir. Unlike all of these ADCs however, Miss Fortune can do/has all of what I just listed and much more. She isn't the best at all of this, but she still has the ability to do it nonetheless and It's a luxury that no other ADC has.

Me and Marthian (previous commenter) have talked about Miss Fortune before, and we both agree that she's fine. I think we both agree that Miss Fortune's ultimate is fairly strong taking in consideration at max rank it has 1,000 base damage, but buffing it in a wrong way could take Miss Fortune back to her oppressive, overpowered state she use to be for a very long time. Miss Fortune in the past was an extremely strong pick since everything about her was better. More mobility, range, damage. She just didn't fall off at all and I think a lot of reason why Riot hasn't made any large buffs on her was because they don't want her to return to that state.

It will be interesting to see what Riot does when they "rework" her or whatever they plan to do with her.

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tEl6TYGI,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-04T00:10:41.663+0000).

Me and Marthian (previous commenter) have talked about Miss Fortune before, and we both agree that she's fine. I think we both agree that Miss Fortune's ultimate is fairly strong taking in consideration at max rank it has 1,000 base damage, but buffing it in a wrong way could take Miss Fortune back to her oppressive, overpowered state she use to be for a very long time. Miss Fortune in the past was an extremely strong pick since everything about her was better. More mobility, range, damage. She just didn't fall off at all and I think a lot of reason why Riot hasn't made any large buffs on her was because they don't want her to return to that state.

1000 base damage on a channeled ult that is extremely hard to proc it's really laughable, you'd have to hit all the 7 waves.

You guys have to understand that having absurd damage on her ult is completely normal since it hinders her from doing anything else, autoattacking in particular.

Pantheon's E has got stupidly high AD scaling, along with Garen's E, because there is really nothing those guys can do while channeling those spells.

There is nothing wrong having high scalings and numbers on a channel, it's the whole point of a channel spell else it wouldn't be worth using that.

Katarina has got incredibly high scalings and bases on R, Malzahar has got too...the only champ who has got piss poor numbers on a channeling R is MF.

Either you just remove her ult and make it something completely different, or you give it hard AD scalings and make it physical damage, there is no other way to make it relevant.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I'll admit that Miss Fortune's ult is pretty garbage late game, but It's damage isn't a joke early-mid game, where Miss Fortune dominates. Typically the only reason I use it late game is during a Yasuo-Malphite-MF wombo combo or to last hit someone who is out of my range as her ultimate has a pretty high range.

I think Miss Fortune's ult could be changed, though I think Riot won't likely completely give her a new ultimate as it is a pretty well known ability of the game and feels kind of like, signature to the game.

Sightless662 votes

Mixed Damage? Corki. Mobility? Kalista. Sieging? Caitlyn. Pushing? Sivir. Unlike all of these ADCs however, Miss Fortune can do/has all of what I just listed and much more. She isn't the best at all of this, but she still has the ability to do it nonetheless and It's a luxury that no other ADC has. She isn't the best at all of this, but she still has the ability to do it nonetheless and It's a luxury that no other ADC has.

I've really got to dispute this. Your list doesn't really have a large number of strengths, and some of the strengths it does have are strengths that MF only preforms at the baseline of AD carry potential. I mean, pushing and sieging? What makes her good at those? She sieges in exactly the same way as any ADC: by hitting a tower from 550 range. Nothing else in her kit works for that. She's not a great pusher either. She has mediocre AoE outside of the max-last E or ulting a creep wave, and her ability to run quickly to get to creep waves. Also, you're listing mobility as a strength? That really can't fly. Her strut is one of the worst forms of ADC mobility. Literally any ADC with any kind of movement skill can be called more mobile than MF. The only ones she's more mobile than are people like Kog and Varus with no mobility whatsoever. There are also other elements that she just completely lacks, such as poke.

That's not to say that she's lacking stuff compared to other AD carries. She isn't. She's really got a pretty average distribution of strengths. She doesn't really do anything more or less than any other given ADC does. A lot of the stuff she does are things that pretty much all ADCs do. She's not as strong as she is because she has huge strategic flexibility. She just hits like a truck. That's pretty much it. I mean, that's really good, and it is certainly flexible (there is never a time when tons of damage isn't indicated), but it's not like she's got a ton of stuff that gives more more options than the average ADC. She just hurts more than the average ADC.

I agree with you that her laning phase is the strongest out of any ADC, but it's the only time she feels like a unique champion with interesting mechanics. Outside of that, she works just because she does stupid amounts of damage (particularly midgame) in pretty generic ways. She doesn't have a wide spattering of skills and potentials like a jack-of-all-trades. She just hurts a lot.

Miss Fortune in the past was an extremely strong pick since everything about her was better. More mobility, range, damage.

I'm not sure that's accurate. She never had more mobility or range, unless you're counting the ultimate being stronger as her having better range (which would be fair). She hasn't actually lost any mobility since 2010, and that was well before she was strong back in season 3.

I think we both agree that Miss Fortune's ultimate is fairly strong taking in consideration at max rank it has 1,000 base damage,

I'm more of the Scruffy view that a rework should start with doubling the ult damage and then going from there (ok, obviously a bit exaggerated, but you get the point). It's a mediocre ability because whatever damage it has almost never plays out because it's heavily weighted towards the end of the ability due to the stacking mechanism, which you can't exploit on most enemy targets because you can only autoattack one person after ulting. I mean, it's pretty decent at level 6, but it just falls off hard from there. It becomes more useful as a stack-builder than for any damage it does by itself, and that really makes it feel absolutely pathetic.

The ultimate just annoys me. If I'm being realistic, it isn't even that bad, but it's still pretty mediocre and it really works hard to make sure that whatever power it has is delivered in the least satisfying way possible. It should be one of the big awesome ults in the game. It should feel really rewarding to use it well. It shouldn't be so.... ugh.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Oh I agree that her ultimate isn't the best, but It's clearly designed to push the power of her early - mid game. I think her ultimate isn't the best in the game, but remember that other ADCs have worse ultimates than her's. (Can I just say that I've never found a legitimate use for Lucian's ult the entire time I've played him.)

Earl Eulrich1 votes

the buildpath is to just stack ad, i´m absolutly fine with that. She´s in a good spot right now, with a brutally strong laning-phase, a strong mid and a decent lategame..no need for a rework.

VDc0zCqe0w1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tEl6TYGI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-04T10:40:23.964+0000)

the buildpath is to just stack ad, i´m absolutly fine with that. She´s in a good spot right now, with a brutally strong laning-phase, a strong mid and a decent lategame..no need for a rework.

it's already set that they will rework her, they said that

LaceUp231 votes

AD ratios with physical damage. Boom, MF is relevant.

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