They both were nerfed when Cinderhulk was too strong but in addition to the champ nerfs, the item itself was nerfed too.
Now, Sion's E was pretty stupid, but really, everything else about those 2 champs felt pretty balanced.
Seju can't be a strong pick for more than 2 patches apparently T_T
Jungle Lux God27 votesSion was not nerfed because Cinderhulk was too strong. Sion was nerfed because his top lane was too strong.
Maybe Sion can have some nerfs reverted, but it wouldn't be because of his jungle getting nerfed by Cinderhulk.
Can't speak for Sejuani because I don't play Sejuani, but I would assume that she could get some power back after Cinderhulk nerfs because that was the reason she was strong for a while.
Smefanye6 votesYeah Sion was nerfed because his E harass in lane was just absurd. Sion I feel is fine, his big thing is if you miss his ult and Q the enemy can literally just flat out ignore and walk past you most of the time. Sej needs some power bak, the issue was when cinderhulk was super strong and her W scaled off of her max health, but now that both W and cinderhulk were nerfed maybe put some power back into W but not going overboard.
Aych Pii8 votesSion also saw W nerfs because he was seeing jungle play when cinderhulk was big.
1011001110001 votes"We nerfed his e because people were playing him in top lane"
"We nerfed his w because people were jungling with him"
I made it sound a lot worse.
Jungle Lux God3 votesHis W nerfs hurt jungle Sion significantly less than top lane Sion.
Increased wait time to detonate hurts his top lane because the damage being telegraphed is super important to his counterplay in lane while in the jungle he can always set it up so that it deals the damage it needs to.
In addition, while the reduced shield values hurt both his top lane and his jungle, it hurts his jungle less because Sion maxes W first in the jungle but not in top lane.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesmore of an issue taking smite top honestly, bc gold income was better top and he got bigger
THEJJSLAY1 votesSej was really scary, build her full tank and her %hp dmg aoe killed everyone still
GundayMonday3 votesSejuani got DESTROYED by the multiple rounds of nerfs. She went from having ~6 viable build paths to one. Also, support Sejuani is dramatically weaker now too.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votession was too much of a lane bully. maybe he would be too strong w/out the 3 sec on w, but I think they over nerfed him just barely and he's not really relevant at all anymore. they should go 2.5 as a more moderate nerf, but not revert to the original 2 imo.
Puppet33r2 votesSion's e was the only semi - guaranteed damage source in his kit. And then they nerfed it. His w has some surprising dmg and so they made it so that you will never use it as dmg source if you play him as intended(engage front line). So what do we have left? q and r two of the easiest to dodge abilities currently in the game. And then on top of it rito said "you shall not tank" and nerfed all the armor items(on top of defensive masteries being useless as they are and being nowhere near as powerful as offensive branch). And so what is left of this fabled sion rework? Shreds of his 2 patches of fame.
BeatzBoyFTW13 votesFor Sion, I prefer they revert only the W nerf, but not the E nerfs.
idoki1 votesWhich W nerf?
BeatzBoyFTW2 votesWhich W nerf?
- Shield's health ratio reduced to (+ 6 / 7 / 8 / 9 / 10% of max. health) from (+ 10% of max. health) at all ranks.
- Secondary cast cooldown increased to 3 seconds from 2.
I preferred only the latter. Shield amount should be toned down anyway for a tank champ himself.
jade harley BARK5 votesI just want to be able to clear both my buffs without being at like 10 hp when playing sejuani jungle ;_; I really enjoyed not getting my butt kicked by the jungle for a patch or two.
TotN Titan2 votes[{quoted}](name=jade harley BARK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6AWsY7qM,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-09-23T18:22:54.933+0000)
I just want to be able to clear both my buffs without being at like 10 hp when playing sejuani jungle ;_; I really enjoyed not getting my butt kicked by the jungle for a patch or two.
They nerfed Sejuani's late game %health damage and the width of her ultimate. How does this effect your early game jungle clear? Come on...
jade harley BARK2 votesHer clear was still much better. I used to be able to get both my buffs, scuttle, and even gank before I went back. Now I'm having to back before doing red so I don't get counter jungled or die to the monster. Don't forget they nerfed her W as a whole, affecting her early game as well.
Chespin20134 votesAs a Sion player the only thing that really needs to be reverted his W nerfs because his shield is pretty piss poor now I agree that his E was pretty oppressive and is more or less fine the way it is
Ternt3 votesNerfs or not, I still love having Sejuani's on my team. She still bring so much to a fight. Sion too, if he catches you, you will die.
Jasiwel3 votesI'm not sure about a total revert of her recent nerfs, but I do think Sej needs to have some buffs given how the meta has shifted away from Cinderhulk and how armor was nerfed on top of it.
Looking at her recent W/L/P statistics, it's easy to tell she's not in a great spot. Once you reach plat in both YoloQ and TeamQ, her W/L becomes unstable and her pick rate is abysmal. Her winrate averages at 49-50%....with a pickrate at 4-5%.
Desdemonä3 votesWhile sion's E was absurd in relevance to damage and mana (25 mana cost if i remember correctly), it was no real reason to gut both the mana cost and the damage amplification through minions. Although I suppose it wouldn't be a problem if he didn't have 1800 hp at max level and his shield taking three freakin seconds to detonate and having its max percent hp damage reduced to scaling per ability level.
Personally I'd prefer the W nerf to be reverted OR buff his freakin passive Rito.
And it would be nice if sejuani could get back on par with that disgusting mummy. I'd prefer an armored woman on a boar chasing me rather than a clingy son of a yordle rapped in toilet paper.
WutsKraken3 votesI'd like Sion's old W back. Even if they dont boost up the damage or strength again, at least let it be 2 seconds for activation instead of 3
TotN Titan2 votesSejuani's kit is pretty strong and even adjusting a couple of base values could easily push her into borderline oppressive again. She has a knock up, AoE slow, an ultimate that can snare or stun, and scaling values on her abilities based off of her bonus health. Her abilities still allow her to have some of the fastest jungle clears after level 4. Her being picked in only 4/5% of the games and having a 50% win rate has nothing to do with her kit or any nerfs she's been a part of, but more with the community embracing shifting metas. She is still very strong.
Basing Sejuani's strength or weakness off of pick percentage is going to be very difficult with such a revolving door of a jungle the past few patches. You're seeing Skarner and Elise because of changes to their kits. You'll start seeing more Rengars and Kha'zix with the Warrior enchant buffs. You might even seen more Jarvans with the armor buff and his synergy with Warrior enchant. Evelynn and Ekko are seeing quite a bit of play as assassins that can be built quite tanky. You see people (who may not even be Jungle mains) embracing the Sated Devourer jungles, thinking it gives them an advantage because of how strong it was before 5.18. Even Lee Sin has a bigger following because of his simpler resource management tools in the recent patch. All of these factors bring jungle picks from all number of champions and any jungler is going to have a very wide range of pick percentage.
Champion Skin2 votesan ultimate that can snare or stun
Ehh Sejuani doesn't have a snare in her kit at all? Sejuani ult... either stuns if it hits a champion directly or it slows for 20% if it detonates at max range
scaling values on her abilities based off of her bonus health
That is only her W and it requires sejuani to stick to her target for quite sometime... almost all tanks have Armor/MR/HP scaling on some of their damage or some strong defensive steroid
Rico Nasty2 votesThe problem with Sejuani was that she suffers from Ahri syndrome. If she gets one kill, you just can't stop her and she's too much of a problem at all phases of the game. I think the first few Sej nerfs were justified, but they just mutilated her with the nerf hammer and it was completely unnecessary lol.
Sir Yamazuki1 votesSion is mainly played top... and by Riot's standard Sej is 'balanced'.
Dar Raksada1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6AWsY7qM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-23T12:48:43.711+0000)
Sion is mainly played top... and by Riot's standard Sej is 'balanced'.
I never see him except when I play him, when I play him I play him jungle. The shield nerf hurt his jungle pretty hard.
Crossette1 votesSej has a full team stun and a lot of damage still.
Don't change.
Sion? He still does a lot of damage, even as a tank.
LankPants13 votesSej has a full team stun and a lot of damage still.
Do you know who else has this? Amumu, except his damage is way higher.
Sej needs her damage to be somewhere around in line with Mumu's, at the moment it just doesn't match up.
Worgenflorgen2 votesDo you know who else has this? Amumu, except his damage is way higher.
Sej needs her damage to be somewhere around in line with Mumu's, at the moment it just doesn't match up.
Amumu's is a snare and can't be chained immediately with a slow. Sejuani's CC is harder than Amumu's and includes a knockup.
LankPants13 votesAmumu's is a snare
Amumu's snare is still an effective form of hard CC, especially since it stops auto attacks. Its wider effect and longer duration more than make up for the loss of ability to stop spell casts.
can't be chained immediately with a slow.
Slows are extremely irrelevant right now. Any slow smaller than Wither is fairly bad since it's so easy for every meta champ to escape them. This is definitely an advantage for Sej, but it's not big enough to justify the shear difference in damage output.
Sejuani's CC is harder than Amumu's and includes a knockup.
The knock up has a shorter duration than the stun on Bandage Toss. When you're talking about CCs of less than 1 second knock-up VS stun simply becomes a question of which lasts longer. Unless you're talking about Yasou synergy, but that's Yas's strength, not Sej's.
ayNigerianPrince2 votesHoly fuck I hate wither so much. Might as well be rooted. ;-;
Dar Raksada1 votesAmumu's is a snare and can't be chained immediately with a slow. Sejuani's CC is harder than Amumu's and includes a knockup.
it's an entangle, not a snare.
The Yetii Rider2 votesDo you know who else has this? Amumu, except his damage is way higher.
Sej needs her damage to be somewhere around in line with Mumu's, at the moment it just doesn't match up.
Amumu does not have an AOE stun. Holy crap why don't people understand this. An AOE snare that prevents you from autoing is not a stun. You have 4 abilities, a summoner spell (unless it's TP) and maybe an item active you can use here.
Dar Raksada3 votesAmumu does not have an AOE stun. Holy crap why don't people understand this. An AOE snare that prevents you from autoing is not a stun. You have 4 abilities, a summoner spell (unless it's TP) and maybe an item active you can use here.
it's not a snare, it's entanglement or somesuch.
Auz the Ripper1 votesIt's an Ubersnare
Crossette1 votesAmumu's is a snare, is only in a radius AROUND HIM (Sej has a projectile) and, in classic snare fashion, doesn't totally stop anyone except for melee carries.
Also don't try to compare two totally different kits please.
Champion Skin2 votesAmumu ult does actually also stop auto attacks...
And how many times haven't I heard Morgana Q be called a stun sigh... if only... darn Twitch/Kog'maw how are you killing me all the way over there when you are "stunned" (Twitch sure does have a long range when he has his ult)
LankPants2 votesAlso don't try to compare two totally different kits please.
That's a valid argument if I was trying to compare two completely different kits, say Sej and Darius. Amumu and Sej are similar enough that you realistically can compare them and Amumu wins out in almost every way.
TurquoiseYoshi5 votesFull team stun? You literally have to stand closer than Jews in an attic to all be hit by that. She doesn't have much damage, at least compared to every other tank jungler.
My Desired Name1 votesYeah revert the Aatrox nerfs too. I miss playing him...
Ultîma1 votesThe only thing I wish they'd reverse about Sion is the activation delay on his W. It's so extremely annoying to not be able to use this in lane as anything other than a meatshield rather than the explosion its supposed to be able to also provide. The E nerf was absolutely justified because Sion shouldn't be able to harass people at long range the way he did, but Q-W is his bread-and-butter... shorten the activation delay and Sion top will be seen again.
ayNigerianPrince1 votesAt least Sion is still a good pick in bronze :3
Yaskamasandwich1 votesWould be nice to at least tweak out the nerfs on Sion since he's suppose to be a late game tank instead of flat nerf. The shield ratio makes sense, he's late game, but the same thing should have been done to the timer. Instead of a flat 3 seconds it should have been 3 > 2.7 > 2.4 > 2.2 > 2. And his Roar being bonus damage dealt by the projectile unit reduced to 30% > 35% > 40% > 45% > 50%. and maybe keep the Total damage dealt to secondary targets reduced to 91 / 136.5 / 182 / 227.5 / 273 (+ 52% AP) from 105 / 157.5 / 210 / 262.5 / 315 (+ 60% AP). As absurd as his E was it was really telegraphed and hard to land on an enemy champion. Though I guess the problem was that it was too good at wave clearing, but even then with the mana nerfs on it, if Sion spammed it for wave clear, he will become oom and very vulnerable really fast. Sion may have been a tank but he's the unique tank that's suppose to be THE tank raid boss late game, and not just another mid game tank champ. His moves are telegraphed and can be easily dodged in this mobility meta, so they should hurt if they land right. Right now he just feels like every other tank and just drops off in late game where he is suppose to shine.
As for Sejuani, no idea how to fix her other than just full reverting her nerfs.
Jacknife1 votesI'm not the most informed about Sejuani, so I won't comment, but honestly if they just gave some of Sion's shield value back he'd be fine.
Xelvi1 votesRIP Sej. Actually in a worse state than pre-Cinderhulk.
Khell DarkWolf1 votesI'm not going to comment on Sion because I'm really not a Sion main.
But from Sejuani's perspective, I would argue yes and no.
Sejuani has it harder because her core weakness has always been her early game when she doesn't have items makes her a vulnerable target to being caught out in her jungle by aggressive junglers.
It is also hard for Sejuani, if you're building and playing her as a straight up tank. Simply because of the fact that alot of the core armor items have been nerfed/changed.
In my honest opinion, I think Sejuani is fine. But that is because I've changed the entire idea of how I play her which I switched from playing Tank to a Fighter.
Adapting to whats going on in the meta currently and changing up your runes and masteries and build paths is what it is all about and I'm baffled by some that haven't noticed yet.
Psi211 votes[{quoted}](name=Khell DarkWolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6AWsY7qM,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-09-24T06:33:13.908+0000)
I'm not going to comment on Sion because I'm really not a Sion main.
But from Sejuani's perspective, I would argue yes and no.
Sejuani has it harder because her core weakness has always been her early game when she doesn't have items makes her a vulnerable target to being caught out in her jungle by aggressive junglers.
It is also hard for Sejuani, if you're building and playing her as a straight up tank. Simply because of the fact that alot of the core armor items have been nerfed/changed.
In my honest opinion, I think Sejuani is fine. But that is because I've changed the entire idea of how I play her which I switched from playing Tank to a Fighter.
Adapting to whats going on in the meta currently and changing up your runes and masteries and build paths is what it is all about and I'm baffled by some that haven't noticed yet.
LOL terms like Tank, Fighter, Melee, Bruiser and Juggernaut.
So bad.
4nth0l0gy1 votesSej was kind of a broken piece of shit. To the point where I, as a jungle main, went from never having played her to maining her because she was 100% pick/ban.
She definitely can't get that high again, and I don't think she's really that bad now. I'd have to play test to confirm though.
ForeverLaxx1 votesThe same thing happened to Vlad during the era of Revolver Stacking. Don't expect any reversions, because Vlad never got his.
KarKzz1 votesSeju is more than fine. She is weak early, but strong mid and late. And she have a gamechanging ultimate.
Sion could get some tweaking, on his passive (i mean, it's only use is to farm some creep when you get killed) and his ultimate, encourage a bit more long range ults. (risk / reward) Getting some CD refund or a shield uppon hitting a long range ult could be cool.
