Zyra still has got 325 movement speed and terrible base stats

VDc0zCqe0w·Jun 30, 2015·93 votes·4,025 views

Rito fix this by giving her +10 movespeed, it ain't fun moving around so slowly when things like Azir have 335 for no reason at all since he has got quite the same amount of ways to get out of trouble (he even got a dash+shield) while fullfilling basically the same role.

Or dunno, make Zyra have a speed boost while seeds/plants are placed on ground, that would be more creative i guess.

P.S. plant's AI is still bugged as shit and she is extremely clunky overall btw

109 Comments

A Miss FortuneJun 30, 201524 votes

If Zyra's plants were buffed to actually be relevant again and not free gold and some level 2 cheese poke, I think she would see much better mid laning ability. But her plants just offer relatively no damage past early game.

jDVL20eCYsJun 30, 20157 votes

That's a lie do

A Miss FortuneJun 30, 201514 votes

They're really easy to avoid and ADCs can kill them in less than a second due to attack speed and them not having real health. The fact they don't have real health makes them much more annoying early game, but aren't really any threat afterwards. The only thing is that the melee one offers a slow. Other than that they're not much unless they're ult'ed. Even then though, they just gain more attack speed not actual damage. I want Zyra to work with her plants to get kills and set up awesome teamfights and I want her plants to actually feel like Azir's soldiers "Let's back away from these or they'll do too much damage." rather than just not even be slightly intimidated by it.

NarasimhaJun 30, 20155 votes

Just to jump in, there's a fundamental difference. For Azir and Heim, those abilities are their primary source of damage. The rest of their kit tends to revolve around it. For Zyra, her plants are more of a supplement than the focus. They are there to help her damage, but they're not meant to be doing even a major part of it. She still has actual abilities to do that for her.

misfortunasJun 30, 201510 votes

A good zyra player can place her plants in a somewhat sweet spot where trying to actually kill her plants leads to her hitting an e 100% and can then combo them and burst them down. Don't forget she can spam these things and with a liandrys these things HURT. O.2/0.3 per attack is nothing to laugh at considering they have moderate attack speed when ulted and they proc spell effects. She is the definition of damage basicly: Burst, AoE, DPS. Given that, she is squishy and her plants al is horrible, that needs to be changed. Something like -10 mana costs on all her abilites and maybe a 0.1 ratio buff on her Q would be great to really underline her idea of pure damage. While they are at it she could use a qol change to her e, a bit more speed/witdh would be great. One wrong buff though, and we have an oppresive support/mid laner.

A Miss FortuneJun 30, 20154 votes

I think that they don't want to buff Zyra though mainly because you're right, a single wrong buff will make her dominate like she did on release with over a 63% winrate.

VDc0zCqe0wJun 30, 201512 votes

{quoted}

I think that they don't want to buff Zyra though mainly because you're right, a single wrong buff will make her dominate like she did on release with over a 63% winrate.

look, there is just no way this will ever happen, like how can you even think about that?

this is not S2, and +10 movespeed doesn't revert something like 123124234 nerfs in a row without any kind of compensation or buffs

don't try to sell me the story that 0.05 AP ratio buff on Q and higher range on W is a good compensation over -30 base damage at level 5 on Q (your MAIN harrassing spell), -10% CDR on W and -1/3 of the CC duration on the ult

the compensation buffs were a joke, and release Zyra was 20% CDR on W, tons of damage on passive, huge range on R, huge CC on the ult, SUPER fast AoE root

nothing of the said things are still on her kit, CDR is now 10% max, passive is just worthless, R range got nerfed, CC on ult got nerfed, E is slow as a snail, so there is really no way she will become broken over +10 MS

EDIT: how could i forget the Q range nerfs? literally everything about her has been nerfed, please let's stop pretending that she will be a nightmare to balance since they are not even trying at the moment

manbearswineJun 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Winratetards gonna tard,that's what they do,you are wasting your breath here,and so am I.

P.S: What am I doing here,I should really uninstall the boards...

VDc0zCqe0wJun 30, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Winratetards gonna tard,that's what they do,you are wasting your breath here,and so am I.

P.S: What am I doing here,I should really uninstall the boards...

well i actually managed to get 15 upvotes somehow, i usually get rekt by downvotes every time i mention Zyra being weak so yeah, i guess people are actually catching up

DeathToEcchiJul 1, 20151 votes

It's actually impossible for a single champ to kill a plat in less than a second...

A Miss FortuneJul 1, 20152 votes

3 auto attacks and they die? Ok I might be like .25 seconds off but still, they're ridiculously underpowered after the laning phase unless your team can set up perfectly positioned fights.

AMYS GRAVEJul 1, 20154 votes

ADCs can kill them in less than a second due to attack speed

max attack speed is 2.5 attacks a second and the plants have 3 hp (like wards) so it will take longer than one second to kill at any point in the game.

XonraJul 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

max attack speed is 2.5 attacks a second and the plants have 3 hp (like wards) so it will take longer than one second to kill at any point in the game.

Assuming only one person is attacking said plants. You can always just step on them before she uses an ability and they won't be plants in the first place.

AMYS GRAVEJul 1, 20155 votes

You can always just step on them before she uses an ability

A good zyra wont let you do that.

XonraJul 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

A good zyra wont let you do that.

And a good player of equal skill will just negate that.

Using the argument "a good Zyra player won't let you do that" is not a good argument when a good...name a champion, can just equal the playing field.

"A good Zyra will hit you" A good anyone with a dash will still get out of the way. or anyone with a flash.

Just because someone is good with Zyra doesn't mean that have the mighty power of making someone forget how to dodge skill shots or move out of the bad patch.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

AMYS GRAVEJul 1, 20154 votes

Zyra decides where her plants go, if she puts them in a place where you can step on them she made the mistake. Either she put them where you could stomp them, which means she's bad, or she did place them somewhere where she could punish you if you went for them and she didn't, which means she's bad. The positioning and zoning decisions are entirely on zyra, which means yes, it does work that way.

XonraJul 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Zyra decides where her plants go, if she puts them in a place where you can step on them she made the mistake. Either she put them where you could stomp them, which means she's bad, or she did place them somewhere where she could punish you if you went for them and she didn't, which means she's bad. The positioning and zoning decisions are entirely on zyra, which means yes, it does work that way.

I guess because Zyra puts down some abilities or plants that the person against her just takes their hands away from the keyboard.

I'm sorry, but just because you aim at someone, aim where they are going, you name it, doesn't mean that person isn't going to suddenly forget how to dodge or move.

You can place where you think it will hit, but there is no 100% chance to hit because you are a good Zyra person, so again, no it doesn't work that way.

You can't just try and claim because they are good then of course their CC will hit. If that was the case then it would work all the time, or they would just make it point and click CC.

Hate to be blunt about it, but your argument isn't suddenly correct because you use the argument "Because they are good". That isn't how the game works. You don't suddenly make something work 100% of the time because you are "good". Even pros miss skillshots.

So sorry, your argument holds no water.

AMYS GRAVEJul 1, 20154 votes

I guess because Zyra puts down some abilities or plants that the person against her just takes their hands away from the keyboard.

So i guess because the enemy is attacking zyras plants she takes her hands away from the keyboard.

Do you even hear yourself?

NateKillerJun 30, 201513 votes

Every time I play with Zyra she has the most damage in game stats.....as a support. Her being slow and immobile is probably needed.

VDc0zCqe0wJun 30, 201512 votes

{quoted}

Every time I play with Zyra she has the most damage in game stats.....as a support. Her being slow and immobile is probably needed.

dude, it's not like she will become a Jet with 6 dashes, it would just be 335 movespeed on a kit with zero dashes, zero movespeed buffs

Xerath got 340 and Azir 335 while having a dash lel

Brand 340 Annie 335 i could go on for ages

xl Kirito lxJul 1, 20152 votes

Worth noting, Zyra tends to buy Liandries Torment, which is easily proc'd by all of her summons. It's slightly easier for her to rack up damage at the end game screen, just since she can apply the Torment passive to every enemy champion, incredibly easily. At least, as easily as her plant AI allows.

1000angrybeesJun 30, 20159 votes

Honestly, I dont think anyone should be in the 325 tier. that's just insulting.

LankPantsJul 1, 20153 votes

I think only the most mobile champs should be in the lowest tier of MS. That way they'd be punished harder for misusing their mobility. Of course that's not how it actually works, because Rito.

MimaropaJun 30, 20159 votes

I agree. Zyra is in a terrible spot right now. Her base stats are fine except ms. Her abilities offer great damage but all have a delay. With all the mobility creep like ekko that could easily dodge her abilities by procing his passive or double dash-ish skill. Her plants really need a buff and better ai. They mostly just focus minions even if enemy champs are within range after procing. I hope they focus champs until they leave range not just one as then going for a measly minion. She's a monster in teamfights but gets focused easily. The big problem is her passive. It's horrible. It's impossible to hit it( it also has a delay which champs could run away during that time) . Just because it's true damage doesn't mean it's op. I just wish they change it or they make it more easy to hit. other champs that has a death passive like sion and karthus are worthwhile and better. Karthus can use his ult and skills without mana and interruptions. Sion can kill a full health squishy with his passive and also do the die killing a camp then teleport back in lane for a exp and gold lead strat. Zyra is pretty bad atm. She needs some utility buffs.

Mandang0Jun 30, 20158 votes

Upvoted for getting Riot to fix plant AI.

RainbowIceeJul 1, 20155 votes

Man.... zyra still hasn't come back from that gutting rito did with her the year she came out. Poor thing.

IncognonymousJul 1, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Man.... zyra still hasn't come back from that gutting rito did with her the year she came out. Poor thing.

She deserved every bit of that gutting and more. Release Zyra was pure insanity, and proof that Riot's balance team drinks heavily at work. I wish I could find her initial nerf log. It was impressive, in a way.

LankPantsJul 1, 20152 votes

I wish I could find her initial nerf log. It was impressive, in a way.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zyra/Background

The only unjustified change was the 10 MS drop.

Evil JesterJul 1, 20155 votes

Azir minions can be moved around and have huge damage output

Heimerdinger turrets deal decent if not great damage and can remain in place indefinitely or until destroyed

Zyra plants require you to use a spell to activate them, are temporary, and range can very to okay, to hardly any range at all.

XonraJul 1, 20154 votes

The problem with Zyra is, Riot doesn't like her and doesn't know what to do with her.

Unlike Vlad who they admit they never should have created (yes they said that), they aren't afraid to slap Zyra around with nerfs.

They don't want her to be as strong as she was mid anymore, and yet they don't seem to want her to be a strong support either, given her potential damage.

So it seems they are just trying to pretend she doesn't exist while hoping everyone else does too.

Twitch ChatJun 30, 20153 votes

i dont know how you can even convince yourself that zyra and azir are "fulfilling basically the same role"

A Miss FortuneJun 30, 201513 votes

They're both minion mancers, except Azir's soldiers are his entire kit aside from his ult and are extremely strong, meanwhile Zyra's plants are irrelevant after the laning phase and just feed 5 gold to the enemy team. I mean you can use them as wards too, but usually it's the seed and not the plant itself used for the wards.

Br4ndonJun 30, 20153 votes

Zyra has high bases and scales hard as a support and mid laner. She has 3 CC, 2 hard and 1 soft. I think if she had her MS increased she would become too difficult to get to.

SnugglePuggle94Jun 30, 20151 votes

Even just a small buff like +5 would make her too fast? I don't think so. She has the slowest MS in the game, or at least one of the slowest. She needs a small buff even if its just +5

Br4ndonJun 30, 20156 votes

would that +5 ms be noticeable to be worth it? Maybe cutting her mana costs or increases mana regen since mana regen was killed this season.

I dont know though.

SnugglePuggle94Jun 30, 20151 votes

Even with MS items and MS runes and masteries she is still on the slow side. I don't think +5 would hurt that much.

Br4ndonJul 1, 20152 votes

But 5+MS wouldnt be noticable and riot would want to take power to give her that 5 MS. There must be another way that make her feel more like a plant lady that could buff her without barely increasing a stat.

VDc0zCqe0wJul 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

There must be another way that make her feel more like a plant lady that could buff her without barely increasing a stat.

well this is obviously true, but i'm mostly raising a point

also let's face it: 325 is boring

YoungFarmerJun 30, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Zyra has high bases and scales hard as a support and mid laner. She has 3 CC, 2 hard and 1 soft. I think if she had her MS increased she would become too difficult to get to.

Mean while ekko

Br4ndonJul 1, 20153 votes

This thread is about Zyra. I'm not arguing Ekko isnt strong, I'm saying that Increasing Zyra's MS is the wrong way to buff her.

PokladnicaZlaJul 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Zyra has high bases and scales hard as a support and mid laner. She has 3 CC, 2 hard and 1 soft. I think if she had her MS increased she would become too difficult to get to.

2 Hard CC? I must have missed something while playing her for nearly 2 years...

Br4ndonJul 1, 20152 votes

Yes you have. A snare and a knock up are in her kit. Both of which can potentially hit the entire enemy team. Odd how you can play zyra for 2 years straight and not notice her E and R.

PokladnicaZlaJul 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yes you have. A snare and a knock up are in her kit. Both of which can potentially hit the entire enemy team. Odd how you can play zyra for 2 years straight and not notice her E and R.

She does have 3 kinds of CC,but Snares/Roots arent hard CC.

kJsJul 1, 20152 votes

Snare is a hard CC lol You've been playing for two years and haven't realised snare is up there with stuns and knock ups. It completely stops movement therefore it's hard CC.

PokladnicaZlaJul 1, 20152 votes

Hard CC refears to the effect that unables the player from attacking,controling movement and using spells at the same time.Snares only movement.

Hard CC:Stuns,Suppression effects,Airborn effects,Forced actions(Charm,Taunt,Flee/Fear) and Polymorph.

HupsisJul 1, 20153 votes

Zyra is a plant. She's not supposed to run fast.

Instead of giving her more movement speed I think it would be thematically more fitting to give her a passive that encouraged her to stay still (like a plant). "Stay still for a couple of seconds and your spells will have longer range" or something similar.

People always whine about high mobile champions anyways.

a rabid cupcakeJul 1, 20151 votes

I was thinking this exactly.

"When have you seen a plant run past you? You haven't? Well then why would you expect Zyra to be naturally speedy? She's already speedier than a plant. I say we treat her more like a plant if anything!"

If her keeping still increased her range, or even her line of sight significantly, I think that'd be a nice enough buff for her. Or heck...

Plant Affinity If Zyra remains immobile for 10/5/3 seconds, she can see into the nearby brush at a range of 200/300/400 units. Upon moving, this vision fades over 1 second.

XonraJul 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=a rabid cupcake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NnrOKArX,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2015-07-01T11:02:06.757+0000)

I was thinking this exactly.

"When have you seen a plant run past you? You haven't? Well then why would you expect Zyra to be naturally speedy? She's already speedier than a plant. I say we treat her more like a plant if anything!"

If her keeping still increased her range, or even her line of sight significantly, I think that'd be a nice enough buff for her. Or heck...

Plant Affinity If Zyra remains immobile for 10/5/3 seconds, she can see into the nearby brush at a range of 200/300/400 units. Upon moving, this vision fades over 1 second.

Except that wouldn't work given this game.

If you are terribly immobile without a TON of range to make up for it (See Xerath) then you won't do very well.

Xerath has a ton of damage, a lot of range, especially on his ult, but he is immobile.

Zyra is slow, has meh range, no where near Xerath levels of damage.

Both are squishy, but Xerath can attack you from further where Zyra has to at least be in normal range, making her very easy to jump on, and she has no fancy shields or stuns or dashes like a lot of popular mages, so she is lacking a lot for a lack of compensation in areas other mages have.

Most slow mages also just end up with a dash or as I've already stated, long range and tons of damage.

You can't just have no mobility because it sounds cool thematically, but her not actually have compensation for it. Seeing into a brush isn't going to do it I'm afraid.

HupsisJul 1, 20151 votes

She could sacrifice mobility for more cc? She already deals a lot of damage :P

U Just Got SlainJul 1, 20153 votes

I wouldn't mind current Zyra if her plants actually DID SOMETHING. Literally an opponent walks out of range for a second, plants never target them again, even if they come back into range. Ever since they added the range indicator it just makes the problem so obvious. Sometimes plants don't even attack for like 3 seconds, what is this BS? How can Riot allow her plants to be so useless? Like I understand she was strong a long time ago but it's been such a long time, every champ has ups and downs, but Zyra's been down for quite a long time...