Is finally something being discussed around Reddit, blaming the Assassin rework and ADC's current damage scaling at 2-3 items. My god, we may have a chance to convince Riot their game needs serious work.
Extra note: Many are mentioning on Reddit this isn't even taking into consideration the peel/heals of Supports.
TreeDayBan22 votesPeople won't be happy until ADCs are free kills. People think if they can manage to get close to one it should just auto die. You know, there are more ADCs in the game than the 2/3 OP ones. Play something like ashe and survive a zed/fizz/etc.
Even when ADCs are complete shit, and they have been, people still find something to cry about like wanting more melee champs bot.
General Esdeath 44 votesYeah what kind of evil asshole would want an assassin to kill the thing it's meant to kill
TreeDayBan12 votesYea because its so much fun just being 100-0 in 1.5 seconds. You know, they changed things for a reason. I'm sure it is fun to Fizz players who can just 2 shot an ADC without even landing an ult. But its not fun to the class that has to literally build entirely DMG for almost the entire game.
Like I said, people are only happy when they can highlight reel erase ADCs and Supports without even trying. Thats the only time they are happy.
Most people who whine about not being able to kill ADCs would feed their asses off on ADC. Like your 0/4 Draven record and 1/7 KDA. Why aren't you at 75-100% win-rate crushing it if ADCs are so OP and you can just do it all?
34112354565241 votesYea because its so much fun just being 100-0 in 1.5 seconds by some braindead hypercarry drooling on their mouse , who probably could have just been afk all together and we wouldnt even know as long as hes reached his stat check 3 - 4 item power. You are the finest example of a biased ADC apologist. Its actually the opposite of what you say, people who play other roles can easily adapt and learn ADC , its braindead easy. But when ADC players have to go to other lanes they often pick adcs in those lanes like corki mid or ezreal jungle or vayne top and usually still feed , they are often referred to as "1 tricks" cause the whole role is the same thing. Dont give draven as an example , hes probably the only difficult adc in your mindless role. Keep ruining the game.
Sudzis Dipidus3 votesIts kinda the entire problem of assasins and adc. On one hand with assasins their entire existence makes adcs no fun. Not being able to do anything because you died in a quarter of a second is REALLY unfun and renders adcs somewhat useless(reason why everyone hates Zoe). At the same time an assasin not being able to do their job is not even worth having on a team. On the other end of the spectrum, an adc who just right clicks you to death(jinx kog trist) is no fun to play against while the adcs that are constantly reacting to others(lucian vayne kalista) are either too op or too underwhelming. Its extremely difficult to balance and instead of bickering about one class being op we should try to create new characters that fit the role while still not being problematic
Disembark17 votesThank god I switched from ADC to support.
It must suck to play such a high-stress and micro-intensive role just to be labeled braindead for autoattacking by people that have no idea what they’re not talking about.
While I get to decide if you live or die, and how the lane plays out.
greekvandaL2 votes[{quoted}](name=Ż J,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tETEO4yv,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-07T05:24:53.863+0000)
Yea because its so much fun just being 100-0 in 1.5 seconds by some braindead hypercarry drooling on their mouse , who probably could have just been afk all together and we wouldnt even know as long as hes reached his stat check 3 - 4 item power. You are the finest example of a biased ADC apologist. Its actually the opposite of what you say, people who play other roles can easily adapt and learn ADC , its braindead easy. But when ADC players have to go to other lanes they often pick adcs in those lanes like corki mid or ezreal jungle or vayne top and usually still feed , they are often referred to as "1 tricks" cause the whole role is the same thing. Dont give draven as an example , hes probably the only difficult adc in your mindless role. Keep ruining the game.
You seen gosu get autofilled? the guy is ABSOLUTE trash lmfao. but he rightclicks with Vayne and makes montages he is a god LOL.
Thefrostyviking2 votes[{quoted}](name=toxicity creep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tETEO4yv,comment-id=00040000000000000004,timestamp=2018-02-07T18:46:21.154+0000)
You seen gosu get autofilled? the guy is ABSOLUTE trash lmfao. but he rightclicks with Vayne and makes montages he is a god LOL.
Just like every other one role mains that get autofilled.
And what does that prove? That he is bad at other roles? Who would even claim to be surprised given that he does not play them?
You can't succeed if you haven't played the damn champs unless somethings seriously wrong <.<
greekvandaL2 votesJust like every other one role mains that get autofilled.
And what does that prove? That he is bad at other roles? Who would even claim to be surprised given that he does not play them?
You can't succeed if you haven't played the damn champs unless somethings seriously wrong <.<
oh meanwhile pants a challenger jungler who has low mechanical skill can do just fine autofilled adc. Wonder why? adc is the easiest role in the game
Thefrostyviking3 votesI don't know about you but i´ve seen pants play AD carry on and off on his main ever since.....don't recall if it was the start of season 6 or season 7, at least more than a year and 1 month.
He also has played support a lot as far as i know.
Rather than calling him a true one role trick, he is a mainly a jungler but he plays other roles as well if he feels like it.
And low mechanical skills what=?
I wouldn't argue that jungle is the hardest, you don't have to constantly think about ganks/harass and farm like a midlaner or marksman does, however you need a extremely constant map awareness, clear responses to enemy movement and accurate ganking which differs greatly among a lot of jungle champs......heck some champs even gank differently depending on what they are ganking.
So sure, jungling doesn't start off very micro intensive, nor does it usually get too much either.
But it's by far the most macro intensive role, and to truly succeed on aggressive jungles you need a good micro game as well,,,,,which pants evidently has seeing as he was pretty good on Elise last i checked.
Corrupt Bliss2 votesADC is a far cry from being the easiest role in the game. I'd argue to say that Marksman have a harder role. Yes, Marksman right click to deal damage (almost like every other champion in LoL). However, they have a lot more to worry about that many other roles. I'd also venture to say that ADC positioning is the most imperative in team fights. Knowing where to place yourself, how to farm while staying aggressive, listening to teammates, paying attention to cool-downs, and attempting to live as nearly every enemy dives to kill you in quite difficult. Most people CANNOT ADC. As a support main I can tell the difference between auto-filled ADCs every time.
As far as challenger players go, most if not all of them at this point can auto-fill. That being said, in no way does Pants compare to ADCs like C9 Sneaky, imaqtpie, Gosu, etc. Those are players who know the ins and outs of their champions, positioning, mechanics, micro and macro aggression, etc, which are all important and skill defining.
General Esdeath 10 votesHold on, so you're telling me, that classes who BUILD PURE DAMAGE AND NO DEFENSE shouldn't die in a few seconds? If only they had an item that stopped them from dying, or even A WHOLE CLASS.
Now, imagine a world where the assassin class has an escape all the time, like Zed, the assassin ADC's complain about the most. Imagine if every assassin had a passive that says "When this champion is attacked the attacker is stunned". That's how most people feel about marksmen with their supports.
"wow ur Draven KD is bad xDDD"
Meanwhile you don't scroll to pre-season to see the games where me, a top lane main for 3 years, can pick up the ADC role and go positive and win
https://i.imgur.com/RfEwlzE.png
https://i.imgur.com/iStT9yS.png
Keep in mind, Draven is in a pretty bad spot compared to most other marksmen, because everyone can do what Draven is known for; burst.
I see you have never played a game as an assassin, and yet you want to say they're not supposed to do their job? In fact, all you play is Ashe, the ADC who can counter assassins the HARDEST (with a negative winrate btw). You have the 3 things assassins fear the most.
Oh you spotted that Assassin? Now you can leave the area or regroup, or you can prepare a trap, or you can JUST KNOW THEY'RE COMING AND NOT BE CAUGHT OFF GUARD.
But please, tell me next about how tanks shouldn't be able to take 3 tower shots and live.
TreeDayBan5 votesLol Ashe counters Assassin's the hardest? Are you serious? ADCs who counter Assassins, are ADCs with spammable movement spells, and self peel. Trist/Ezreal/Vayne/etc. It damn sure ain't Ashe. If you jump on some Ashe and actually die in the 1 second ult stun, she was fed beyond belief and you were woefully behind. She can't even crit on the first shot. I mean are you serious right now. Might as well say Jhin counters assassins, too, since he can sometimes land a root when you jump on him.
Its times like this when you see the real bias. Ashe is one of the worst ADCs in the game, and you are going to say she counters Assassins the hardest. What a joke. And I'm some kind of apologist? Hahahahhahahah. This is why Gameplay is a joke. You probably actually believe that.
General Esdeath 4 votesSomeone didn't read the post. Secondly, having mobility is not a counter, it's an escape. A COUNTER means it hurts them, as opposed to saving you. Ashe stun can be used to stun that assassin from the other side of the teamfight.
Never said apologist. That's the other guy(s). Apologists usually aren't the person(s) in question.
TequilaZombie1 votesSecondly, having mobility is not a counter, it's an escape
To be fair, escapes are counters to melee assassins. Not on the same level as hard CC is, but still a counter.
If you're playing an assassin and, more likely than not, blowing your gap closer to get to the ADC only to have the ADC jumping away, you were effectively countered as you failed to do your job (take out a high priority target) while being, at best, useless until your CDs come back or, at worst, dead because you're a caster on CD in the middle of the enemy team.
Not to mention that once they recreate that gap they might as well 1v1 you because you now have to walk up to them eating some free damage.
General Esdeath 1 votesAn escape just means you survive for now, same as a stopwatch after one use.
ISLAMICWARRIOR991 votesHold on, so you're telling me, that classes who BUILD PURE DAMAGE AND NO DEFENSE shouldn't die in a few seconds? If only they had an item that stopped them from dying, or even A WHOLE CLASS.
Now, imagine a world where the assassin class has an escape all the time, like Zed, the assassin ADC's complain about the most. Imagine if every assassin had a passive that says "When this champion is attacked the attacker is stunned". That's how most people feel about marksmen with their supports.
"wow ur Draven KD is bad xDDD"
Meanwhile you don't scroll to pre-season to see the games where me, a top lane main for 3 years, can pick up the ADC role and go positive and win
https://i.imgur.com/RfEwlzE.png
https://i.imgur.com/iStT9yS.png
Keep in mind, Draven is in a pretty bad spot compared to most other marksmen, because everyone can do what Draven is known for; burst.
I see you have never played a game as an assassin, and yet you want to say they're not supposed to do their job? In fact, all you play is Ashe, the ADC who can counter assassins the HARDEST (with a negative winrate btw). You have the 3 things assassins fear the most.
- Hard CC (Your R)
- Vision (your E)
- Slows (Your Autos/W).
Oh you spotted that Assassin? Now you can leave the area or regroup, or you can prepare a trap, or you can JUST KNOW THEY'RE COMING AND NOT BE CAUGHT OFF GUARD.
But please, tell me next about how tanks shouldn't be able to take 3 tower shots and live.
So you did good in 2 adc games and the role is op? Forget how you hard fed the others lol. And burst has nothing to do with why draven is bad.
General Esdeath 1 votes"pre-season"
A lot more than 2 games, op.gg only shows by season in tab
ISLAMICWARRIOR991 votes"pre-season"
A lot more than 2 games, op.gg only shows by season in tab
Ok but no offense youre silver 1, which doesn't exactly show how strong a role is. Not to mention you have sub 50 winrates on every marksman you've played this season.
General Esdeath 4 votesAnd now look at where I ended last season. Oh, gold 1? Awfully close to that plat rank. And what rank do they try to balance the game around again?
Again, this season I only played like 7 ADC games. After preseason I kinda got it out of my system and went back to top/mid.
Now then, stop trying to troll me like you trolled teams with Nunu running down mid.
ISLAMICWARRIOR991 votesAnd now look at where I ended last season. Oh, gold 1? Awfully close to that plat rank. And what rank do they try to balance the game around again?
Again, this season I only played like 7 ADC games. After preseason I kinda got it out of my system and went back to top/mid.
Now then, stop trying to troll me like you trolled teams with Nunu running down mid.
Game is balanced around chall and gold 1 is still low elo. You winning silver games has nothing to do with adc balance, I could first time any champ and go 20/4 in silver.
Pierce The Veal5 votesGame is balanced around chall and gold 1 is still low elo. You winning silver games has nothing to do with adc balance, I could first time any champ and go 20/4 in silver.
OP.gg says you're just filthy plat 5 0 lp boosted. Sooo, I wouldn't trash talk too much if I were you. He and you are the same rank pretty much.
Owenvee1 votesAssassins are meant to assassinate squishy targets in general. That includes ADC's but its not solely made to kill them. It is also designed to kill mages and squishy-support style champions. Its main purpose is to clear the field of a HIGH-IMPACT target, not to take down just the ADC. Everyone is 'meant' to kill everyone in this game. :/
General Esdeath 1 votesNot exactly. Some supports are meant to save, and tanks are meant to engage.
Also, mages only have Zhonyas for assassins, while marksmen can easily kill the assassin.
Śhunpo22 votesI mean....why play an assassin when you could just play a mage/tank to back up your ADC who pretty much shreds everything in front of them?
You're literally walking into your death by picking an assassin since they're extremely risky picks for mediocre reward. The good thing about the assassins pre-rework is that if they did actually go 20/0 they felt like they were 20/0. This is no longer the case since their damage is so delayed they can barely even do their jobs properly.
Meanwhile ADCs get to crit. for 800-1.2k damage and no one bats an eyelid......
CHODES AND LOADS19 votesMany are mentioning on Reddit this isn't even taking into consideration the peel/heals of Supports.
ill never understand this mentality that ppl who play assassins theink theyre entitled to a champ capable of 100% outkitting others in a 1v2 scenario when one of the enemies is literally designed to protect others. ur fuckin delusional
SteamBuster6 votesill never understand this mentality that ppl who play assassins theink theyre entitled to a champ capable of 100% outkitting others in a 1v2 scenario when one of the enemies is literally designed to protect others. ur fuckin delusional
The ideal spot for assasins to be is being able to pick off an out of place squishy, even while the entire enemy team is nearby, and get out. If the ADC isn't surrounded by their tanks, they get picked off by an assassin. It keeps the ADC from being able to go wherever they want. Assassins become problematic when they can assassinate tanks, or when they can kill a squishy that's positioned correctly.
Partholonian1 votesI think his point is that an ADC standing next to a friendly Taric (or whoever) is not "out of place". If you catch the ADC solo greeding a side wave, it doesn't matter how much heal or peel their support could have provided, because they're NOT THERE. That's the scenario assassins should excel in, not diving into the full team.
Other than maybe a Vayne stun into a wall, I have a hard time seeing an ADC surviving that kind of 1v1 when both sides have similar level and items. Anyone want to post some clips?
Assassins are all about punishing stupidity, which can be frustrating when the enemy team refuses to play stupid, but that's why a lot of assassins can also splitpush, which improves the chances of someone trying to show up to 1v1 (not a marksman, unless they're stupidly fed or just stupid).
Evil Yasuo17 votesGetting rid of assassin's burst speed and allowing the 'adc to react' means they have time to stopwatch, shield, heal through the burst, etc. Assassins used to be able to assassinate them before they could use all these tools.
Brain Errör 40410 votesRiot doesn't know what an Assassin even is. The point of an Assassination is to not see it coming... if you can react to it, then it's a pretty botched assassination. Wards, positions and proper skill usage countered Assassins. Now... you can counter an Assassin regardless of the situation. As long as your sla -- I mean, support is next to you.
Glad they got rid of FoTM. But I think shield stacking is pretty cancer.
NineTailedMystic3 votesThe issue was there was no micro to beating an Assassin only macro.
Brain Errör 4043 votesIsn't that the point of a strategy game? Game is pretty cancer now because of the fact Riot doesn't want the strategy portion to remain intact. It's all about pressing every single button on your keyboard to peel or one shot people in rapid succession.
NineTailedMystic3 votesBut you can out micro literally every other class, so why should Assassins be unbeatable by micro?
Owenvee1 votesNot being able to react to something is just simply not fun. You should always be given a chance, a window where you can do something about it. Maybe it could be difficult, heck, even impossible, but you should always be able to react.
Despite all this ranting, I have been killed by assassins before I had time to use anything really, it still happens. It just happens less then it did before. it used to be that if I got zed ulted, It was basically a death, but now it feels like I can do something about it, theres a potential of outplay that previous in other seasons I didn't exactly feel.
I'm not saying I don't think assassins are weak right now - they are, and the fact that they die before they get anything done is a bit unfair, but I don't think they need to be killing people before they react to be effective. Its called watching cd's and knowing what tools are available to the target you want to kill.
NineTailedMystic4 votesSo, should Mages be collateral damage if you allow Assassins to burst ADCs through their peel?
Evil Yasuo1 votesSo, should Mages be collateral damage if you allow Assassins to burst ADCs through their peel?
Someone tell me how to block this mother fucker.
NineTailedMystic1 votesJust what's your problem? If you really wanted, I could just change my summoner and you'd never know it was me.
Evil Yasuo3 votesJust what's your problem? If you really wanted, I could just change my summoner and you'd never know it was me.
I don't feel like arguing dude. I'm sick with a temperature of 102 and I have to be at work here in an hour. I don't like anyone who doesn't like assassins, especially someone who doesn't like Talon or Akali.
NineTailedMystic4 votesActually, Talon is my preferred Assassin, would I play one.
TequilaZombie5 votesMages should just be put on the same spot as ADCs should ideally be: Carries who can shred through an enemy team given that they have a frontline sturdy enough to protect them, but while ADCs are the kings of Single Target DPS, mages would be the AoE Burst variant. At such position, they'd also be highly vulnerable, for a justified reason.
Or alternatively have them be more of a control class with some burst and much more durability. Or any choice between two of Damage, CC, and Tankiness should solve it.
The way it is, mages are simply kicked out of the Assassins/ADC+Supp arms race and left as an afterthought.
vgamedude7 votesLast time I went on Reddit it was a circle jerk of people praising the gods of adcs and crying perpetually if they weren't even more broken than ardent meta.
Hopefully it changes. I would think any non adc player would be displeased with having almost all of your team's import and fighting power on one character and role that stays the same throughout all the games.
Shaydrox5 votesI've said it many times, and I'll say it again: assassins needed some more gameplay in their burst. Some were handled well, some weren't, but regardless they did need something changed else they would never be healthy.
But the problem remains: if you nerf one class entirely by making their burst slower, their targets will simply get all the opportunity to destroy them because they haven't been changed/nerfed appropriately. You cannot make it harder for all assassins to kill adcs, then not changed adcs, and expect everything to turn out well. Currently we're seeing the results of that. And the PBE buffs happening to Evelynn/Talon/Zed are nice but the core issue lies not in specific champions, but rather in the whole class.
As a side note, Duskblade is massively overtuned. But can you imagine what would happen to the game, in its current state, if they finally got around to nerfing it? The main users are considered bad, the main targets of a Duskblade user are currently thriving. Damn, I sure hope they nerf Duskblade before fixing the rest : ^)
ChaddyFantome2 votesI've said it many times, and I'll say it again: assassins needed some more gameplay in their burst. Some were handled well, some weren't, but regardless they did need something changed else they would never be healthy.
But the problem remains: if you nerf one class entirely by making their burst slower, their targets will simply get all the opportunity to destroy them because they haven't been changed/nerfed appropriately. You cannot make it harder for all assassins to kill adcs, then not changed adcs, and expect everything to turn out well. Currently we're seeing the results of that. And the PBE buffs happening to Evelynn/Talon/Zed are nice but the core issue lies not in specific champions, but rather in the whole class.
As a side note, Duskblade is massively overtuned. But can you imagine what would happen to the game, in its current state, if they finally got around to nerfing it? The main users are considered bad, the main targets of a Duskblade user are currently thriving. Damn, I sure hope they nerf Duskblade before fixing the rest : ^)
Amen
JohnnyNeverSins5 votesWhen twitch is better than a fucking rengar and they nerf KALISTA AGAIN,something is fucking wrong.
Anatera3 votesLeague's subreddit is a joke. It's impossible to get any actual discussion going because anything that deviates from popular opinion over there is instantly silenced by the mods. So yeah, of course it's finally happening. They didn't want it to happen before.
Leetri14 votesThe boards is a joke. It's impossible to get any actual discussion going because anything that deviates from popular opinion here is instantly downvoted by people who just wanna be angry at something. Reddit laughs at this place, other game forums laugh at this place. They just see a bunch of angry children yelling at each other, trying to convince others that because they're yelling the loudest they're right. Of course there's lots of threads with actual good points, but no one from the outside sees those because they're drowned out by all the crying. This place has an image problem and no one is doing anything to improve it.
