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At this point, I genuinely feel the Balance Team should be the next major Rework.

EinarUlfar··338 votes·9,466 views

Seriously. Who's even directing & paying you people? I'm sorry to be an ass, but this is seriously getting ridiculous.

Who in their right mind actually finds League as a whole "fun and engaging" right now? What happened to the people that wanted to avoid becoming DOTA, avoid absurd damage? What happened to the team that spouted on and on about how significant it was that a primary focus of balance & gameplay was to ensure it was fun and engaging?

#Do you people seriously enjoy your own game right now??

In fact, I'll make this easy; which of the following encourages FUN AND ENGAGING gameplay for allies as well as opposition?

  • Substantial map-wide influence via Jungler role following 2nd-3rd camp clear [Lasts entire Laning Phase, very few fall off from doing this]
  • Gold-farming Keystone with RNG consumables
  • Majority of Marksmen requiring underpriced items to perform well
  • AD Assassins relying on an overloaded & underpriced item to function
  • Supports, the class known for 'empowering allies' bringing forth the strength of Solo-Lane Tanks/Carries
  • Outer Towers falling from a single early push with Solo Laner + Jungler (possible at Level 5-7; sometimes Level 4)
  • Effectively free mini-Zhonyas at 6 minutes; discouraging the fast-paced, kill-centric gameplay you've promoted since Season 6

I'd wager REAL money that you're leaning on quite a few variables (namely Duskblade, undertuned Zeal items, underpriced/overpowered Support items when synergizing with Runes) to avoid the struggles of balancing those hinging on the successful performance of these variables. I've seen what the Balance Team is capable of in my time with LoL, and I'd frankly like to know what the hell happened to them; because the lack of effort coming from you all goes wayyyy over my head.

If you don't like how I'm expressing my frustration, I'm not sorry, because I genuinely think you should all be ashamed of not trying harder to balance around the factors that you've known for years creates fun and engaging gameplay -- rather than attempt an entirely different direction (arguably for the sake of shorter LCS games / higher number of LCS games in a shorter time frame).

#You've tried it. And it's not working out. People aren't happy, and we just want the game to feel enjoyable for ourselves, our friends, and even our enemies on the Rift. Consider looking back on what raised you all so high up to begin with.

Don't delete my post, as I'm not calling for you to be fired. & This post may promote discussion.

219 Comments

Malix Farwin108 votes

As someone who primarily plays AP champions, i feel like i am always getting outscaled by AD champions no matter how far ahead i am on farm/gold.

Gamer Life37 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZqZ5Lxm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-12T08:59:05.844+0000)

As someone who primarily plays AP champions, i feel like i am always getting outscaled by AD champions no matter how far ahead i am on farm/gold.

yer most/all just get out scaled. AD have life steal and can buy cheap items and still do loads of damage, they also have attack speed items. AP champs dont really have the chance

Zedex13 votes

8/10 carries forgo lifesteal for straight damage. Low ranking or unranked mage mains need to realize their positioning in fights actually matter.

Squey14 votes

mage and enemy adc find each other in the jungle.

Mage has 1 rotation of abilities to win fight. Most abilities are skill shots. Most if not all abilities need to hit to kill target.

Adc just has to dodge (most of the time a single spell) to survive mage damage. Despite having less gold, is able to deal similar amounts of damage. Auto wins fight because "muh rightclick" if survives first mage rotation. Fight doesnt last long enough for 2nd rotation unless running and flashes are used.

There are reasons why pros only pick reliable mages with fewest skill shots and shortest cooldowns like Azir Ryze Malzahar

Thilmer21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZqZ5Lxm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-12T08:59:05.844+0000)

As someone who primarily plays AP champions, i feel like i am always getting outscaled by AD champions no matter how far ahead i am on farm/gold.

I have complained about this for more than a season.

You are playing a mage and you just bougth a 3200 gold ítem? Don't worry; the enemy ADC has bougth a 2600 gold ítem that causes and inmediate powerspike and doesn't fall off in late game despite been cheaper than anything in your build.

[zombie-brand-mindblown] WHAT?!

And don't forget that this 2600 gold ítem is specifically designed for a class that is supposed to be weak until late game, although rigth now they start carrying the game at minute 10 thanks to these underpriced ítems.

6KEMBE4ORBA67 votes

The game has gone beyond the point of "saving". (balancewise, strategywise)

It's gonna take a considerable push back in size (similar to the pushback to the retaded DynamicQ) by the playerbase to actually change smth for the better.

But the current problems (that Riot slowly made throughout the years) are not so simple, they are more complex than DQ - therefore it is extremely hard to rally a major part of the playerbase to push back the retarded changes Riot implements.

So, it won't happen. The game has gone to shit.

AmazoX21 votes

{quoted}

The game has gone beyond the point of "saving". (balancewise, strategywise)

It's gonna take a considerable push back in size (similar to the pushback to the retaded DynamicQ) by the playerbase to actually change smth for the better.

But the current problems (that Riot slowly made throughout the years) are not so simple, they are more complex than DQ - therefore it is extremely hard to rally a major part of the playerbase to push back the retarded changes Riot implements.

So, it won't happen. The game has gone to shit.

DynamicQ was an abomination! A whole year just to remove that pieoc of crap.

Arakadia2 votes

If the game has gone to shit why are millions of people still playing?

LVL99 Helper TK6 votes

{quoted}

If the game has gone to shit why are millions of people still playing?

because a game like this can only die a very slow and horrible death, unless riot decided to just shut down the servers tonight and be done with it, we're gonna see a steady, gradual decline over the next couple of years. Game will be 100 percent dead in less than 5 years at this rate though

Saucy Jack48 votes

we will never find out if they enjoy it because they don't even play it

2Charmnot2Charm8 votes

Isn't it amazing that riot have people on the balance team changing champions when they haven't played ONE GAME FOR MONTHS? Doesn't help that the guy has only ever been silver for years.

Arakadia1 votes

Is this actually confirmed or just suspicion?

2Charmnot2Charm9 votes

https://youtu.be/0pz94AKECFw?t=5m4s

It's true.

Andrey034531 votes

Outer Towers falling from a single early push with Solo Laner + Jungler (possible at Level 5-7; sometimes Level 4)

I had twice situation where I ganked bot right after lvl 3 clear, we got double and got 1st tower right away at like 3-4 minute. Towers are actual paper.

Yordle Xayah25 votes

This... is wrong in SO many levels.

AMYS GRAVE16 votes

what is that 3:49 first turret? WTF

Douglas Funnie29 votes

Season 8 is a total joke.

greekvandaL23 votes

Didnt mention how you made an entire role niche ( assasins ) and made their targets do their job faster better and from range while also beeing unkillable and resource less casue aside graves and jhin adcs dont have a resource that they auto with.

TurtleMari22 votes

That sums it up pretty well.

ITz Revan4 votes

{quoted}

That sums it up pretty well.

xxxMadLionxxx22 votes

You forgot the poor ap itemization that the just only started to address.

DJOKER22 votes

Riot Destroyed League for good*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

D4M2X019 votes

started league season 1, would like a revert to season 5

Flawless Fetus18 votes

"Boards are just a vocal minority. League players, as a whole, love the direction we have been taking this game". On the off chance a Rioter responds to this thread, that's what you're going to get. There are hundreds of threads like yours already, and whenever a Rioter is brave enough to comment, that's what it boils down to.

Çhåryzård14 votes

I stopped playing Solo/Duo queue because of this.

You literally cannot solo carry anymore. If the rest of your lanes feed, that's it. There is so such thing as carrying anymore unless you're playing an extremely bursty midlane champ like Katerina, or a jungler like Yi who can just melt through multiple people in a matter of seconds.

I can't tell you how many times I've won my lane bot, gotten my first turret, shat on my enemy laner and came out ahead, just to lose the game because mid or top fed, or because the enemy jungler was just "better".

Leaf on Bush12 votes

Everytime I see post like this it comes down to one simple similarity.

You can't accept that teamwork is stronger then your solo plays regardless of the fact that you really really really want to win.

Substantial map-wide influence via Jungler

What is a gank if not a very simple move to create a numbers advantage? Deal with it.

Outer Towers falling from a single early push with Solo Laner + Jungler

2 v 1 again?

AD Assassins relying on an overloaded & underpriced item to function [...]Supports, the class known for 'empowering allies'

Yeah you kinda ignore the core idea here which is that ADC's are only investing into damage and heavily rely on teamwork with their support or other frontliners, just like the support relies on having someone to support...so again it's teamwork and you only think of yourself.

The real problem is that you are decieving yourself if you think that your ideas fit into a team game! You actually don't want to play as team. There is just absolutely no trace of team spirit in any of the generic balance complaints that you guys are pumping out on a daily basis. It's all freaking garbage. League of Legends has evolved a lot towards being more team focused and you just can't deal with it because you SUCK at teamwork. This being said, go figure out why esports is getting so much shit as well. Why do we always see people talk about how "Riot only cares about pro players". No that's not what they do. They care about teamwork and pro players just happen to be exceptionally good at working togethe, whereas large parts of the solo queue players are focusing way too much on "solo carrying". But you forget that Teamwork is a skill too.

Cika Jova Zmaj32 votes

I don't know, having an ad carry to SOLO delete your entire team doesn't feel like a TEAM play. There are roles for everything. Supports' duty is to keep his adc safe and sound from enemy threats Assassin is there to make their life difficuilt and delete their adc's as fast as possible with potentially getting out of there without dying Tanks are there to be the hard frontline that rely on their Crowd Control so the enemy team is unable to react while the opposing team is fighting them Bruisers are there to be frontline with medium survivability and medium damage, potentially have CC for smaller amount of enemies Mages are there to deal damage mostly from medium / small range depending on the champion, with sustain or not And then you see, if all of these roles actually WORKED, game would be enjoyable, as once used to be. Now, you just go ahead in a teamfight as lulu, hit R and shield for Tristana that's singlehandendly going to delete entire enemy team with a simple rocket jump, few AA's and maybe ult if she needs it. I don't call that teamwork. I call it individual broken thing. And i am talking about the high elo, not low elo. In low elo everything can carry if you're decent with the champion

Gamer Life4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leaf on Bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZqZ5Lxm,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-02-12T11:16:38.817+0000)

Everytime I see post like this it comes down to one simple similarity.

You can't accept that teamwork is stronger then your solo plays regardless of the fact that you really really really want to win.

What is a gank if not a very simple move to create a numbers advantage? Deal with it.

2 v 1 again?

Yeah you kinda ignore the core idea here which is that ADC's are only investing into damage and heavily rely on teamwork with their support or other frontliners, just like the support relies on having someone to support...so again it's teamwork and you only think of yourself.

The real problem is that you are decieving yourself if you think that your ideas fit into a team game! You actually don't want to play as team. There is just absolutely no trace of team spirit in any of the generic balance complaints that you guys are pumping out on a daily basis. It's all freaking garbage. League of Legends has evolved a lot towards being more team focused and you just can't deal with it because you SUCK at teamwork. This being said, go figure out why esports is getting so much shit as well. Why do we always see people talk about how "Riot only cares about pro players". No that's not what they do. They care about teamwork and pro players just happen to be exceptionally good at working togethe, whereas large parts of the solo queue players are focusing way too much on "solo carrying". But you forget that Teamwork is a skill too.

You say "You can't accept that teamwork is stronger then your solo plays regardless of the fact that you really really really want to win." yet Riot wont enfores team work and punsh people who are making a game a lose because they wont save a tuuret or come back to base when the other team is taking everything in your base.

so its a team game that isnt a team game

Leaf on Bush4 votes

[deleted]

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

It takes 5 people to win a game but only one troll to lose it.

Chigara Ashada11 votes

The most annoying part of this all is that changes that are heavily requested and some are even demanded by the mains that play the given champion are then ignored and nearly the opposite change is made. It feels as if it becomes less of playing a game in which the creators have more knowledge and intent that we may not understand to a simple attitude of, "I'm not taking your idea because it's yours."

ChaddyFantome10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chigara Ashada,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ZqZ5Lxm,comment-id=0022,timestamp=2018-02-12T15:33:22.779+0000)

The most annoying part of this all is that changes that are heavily requested and some are even demanded by the mains that play the given champion are then ignored and nearly the opposite change is made. It feels as if it becomes less of playing a game in which the creators have more knowledge and intent that we may not understand to a simple attitude of, "I'm not taking your idea because it's yours."

This. Remember when every Leblanc player said to just nerf her E Range, but instead they change literally everything else. Her Q damage, her passive damage, her W CD and DMG all gutted but her E left in tact.

Then they gave Galio ridiculous AP ratios for no reason instead of giving him more MR ratios then nerfed him a butt ton.

It almost feels spiteful.

IxtaliKing11 votes

This is a very creative way of telling the balance team "go fuck yourself".

Resolution7 votes

{quoted}

This is a very creative way of telling the balance team "go fuck yourself".

Personally, I'd like to see them fk each other. I'd ship that.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

xelaker10 votes

{quoted}

#You've tried it. And it's not working out. People aren't happy, and we just want the game to feel enjoyable for ourselves, our friends, and even our enemies on the Rift. Consider looking back on what raised you all so high up to begin with.

Riot won't do terribly much with anything we say because the boards don't have 90% of the league population putting their opinions in. Anything the boards say is moot to riot since we are a minority. totes agree with you though [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Sohleks9 votes

I didn't expect the post to be as good as the title.

Madsin259 votes

The problem is obvious we all know it.

They are sacrificing fun and engaging gameplay for LC$$$$$. I'm sick and tired of me and my teammates getting deleted in team fights before anyone knows whats going on, and vice versa sure as hell isn't fun either. "Yay I killed him in .5 go me"

Hate to break it to you riot, League will NEVER be fun to watch no matter what you do to it You can also guarantee I will be buying no RP until things change.

MirrorU8 votes

I on the other hand would prefer they were fired, they had 1 job to balance the game. This game in its current state has all the balance of a jenga tower on 1 block in the middle of an earthquake.

NocturnalSheild1 votes

Except by the numbers this game is the most balanced MOBA thats exists.

Fun isnt the same thing as balanced.

MirrorU7 votes

Really? I'd love to see what numbers you're talking about. Because every single player I've ever talked to in this game agrees it's nothing anywhere near balanced.

Highwind78 votes

I think that RIOT has made League toooooooo team based. Its why LCS games are boring as fuck to watch. It's all about scaling and getting items for these massive team fights that aren't even until 30-40 minutes into the game. The items and abilities have been tuned to that. Its annoying because in solo duo queue you have max 1 person you know (unless you're high ELO) and relying on 3-4 other people when you have little idea what they want to do and what their play style is so hoping to scale and do these team fights that require massive amount of communication isn't plausible. Pro play is an entirely different game and I don't think you can tune items, gameplay, champs, etc. for two different gameplays. Games have become a 5v5 fuck fest that whoever has the best AD carry wins unless some other champ snowballs out of control. Tell me the last game you've lost when you've had the better AD carry? It's just one broken thing to the next. Mid-End of S7 it was ardent censor making the AD carries broke as fuck, pre season to begin of S8 it was the Targons brace giving AD carries 2500-3000 hp making them non killable by assassins, now its normal broken to items that are severely under priced and overpowered. An AD carry can get 2 items that provide them with 80% crit. They have a 80% chance of doing 150% of their normal damage per AA.

BlackEtherian7 votes

I really feel the "Underpriced Ad Assassin items" on a deep and emotion level

4atu007 votes

One other thing is that junglers have too much gank pressure early. I used to jungle and most of the time the only thing to do is either gank or invade. I think thee should be less exp from camps, but they should respawn more often. This could also reward counter jungling at lower elos as the camps would be up more often (no requirement to time them) and thus give more Jungler vs. Jungler action.

ak5216 votes

Automatic upvote just looking at the title.

After reading this, I love you..[sg-jinx]

I wear Givenchy6 votes

Just fire them all please.

wishbone255 votes

and don't forget top lane is still useless cuz nobody cares about top lane , the party is at mid and bot lane , and the wave of AFK's that reign over the game and no penalty for such things , so how you suppose to rank up with 2 afk's every game now

sobi9995 votes

You hit the nail with the title. But alas, why would riot care about a post in the boards when it represents the minority only? I mean this boards is just for the show and so is the gameplay discussion in it.

Recon12125 votes

This was a great post but the chances Riot responds or even considers this is rare. I feel there are way too many people saying this (which they should) and riot continually fails to acknowledge this. It’s quite sad how little this company listens to the community when it’s something as big as the balancing of the entire game.

TurnaboutSticks3 votes

A point that I agree with wholeheartedly is turrets. They are made out of paper for crying out loud, turrets go down way too fast and with the right champions (Tristana Ziggs Nasus ) you can bulldoze your way to a forced victory. What happened to the turrets???

EinarUlfar4 votes

Damage increased overall, turrets were allowed to be affected by all forms of Penetration, Rift Herald was implemented, Demolish was implemented, implemented a change where AP users do AA damage based off their AP rather than AD to turrets to contribute more heavily to turret damage. There may be other factors I'm missing.

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