Ryze in high elo has no counterplay

Anime Fizz·Nov 10, 2019·59 votes·16,719 views

Well a late game, scaling, aoe mage with mostly point and click spells can become a lane bully after first back with its too much.

Hes good at splitting, hes a monster at team fighting, he can instantly clear waves and gain priority on any solo lane with an 850 gold item...

Like, whats the weakness of that? Camp the ryze with a jungler and hope his jungler is afk before he farms 500 gold and tps back into lane with tear?

Champ needs to be gutted, hes giga broken right now.

68 Comments

Sir SaltarinNov 10, 201920 votes

Fuck that champ.

So tired of seeing him always on pro play.

Abibyama IINov 10, 20198 votes

He needs an actual rework, like change him completely like Aatrox

Sir SaltarinNov 10, 20191 votes

That would make him not be played on pro play.

That's a pro gamer move just there.

LeafyNov 11, 20191 votes

This version of him is actually his rework. A few years ago he was a very different champion.

NaalithNov 11, 20191 votes

He's gotten two actual reworks and multiple small reworks. He will always be a low cooldown combo mage who scales on mana, I doubt any better version of him within those constraints could be created.

Abibyama IINov 11, 20194 votes

Then maybe stop with the low cooldown combo mage if it is such an issue?

LeetriNov 11, 20192 votes

But then you'll get all the people who suddenly are Ryze mains (despite having like 3 Ryze games vs AI in total) complain for months on the boards how Riot removes champions and destroy their identity. Happens every single time Riot reworks things that have no place in the game anymore.

Abibyama IINov 11, 20192 votes

Who gives a damn? Riot doesn't

Romans VI XXIIINov 11, 20191 votes

Low CD, combo Mage that scales on mana is fine.

But that's not what he is. He is a Low CD Burst Combo Mage with High DPS that has mana scaling.

Make him a combo Mage, but let's not sit here and think casting 2 spells to clear a wave is fair when riot has constantly nerfed other mages for just that. Or being able to use minions to nuke enemies.

Pick one. Single Target Nuke. Or AoE. Or Single Target DPS. Not AoE Nuke DPS.

WoonStruckNov 10, 201919 votes

I bet someone says to dodge his Q. OOH or maybe they'll say he doesn't gain much fight potential from his ult.

[sg-lulu]

Anime FizzNov 10, 201935 votes

{quoted}

I bet someone says to dodge his Q.

[sg-lulu]

"just hide behind a minion wave so he cannot Q you"

Watches ryze EQing to a minion and not only destroying the whole wave but also hitting you for 500 damage with only mana items.

And if you stay close after 2 seconds he sends another one and you have to base or die.

TheI3igDaddyNov 10, 201916 votes

Riot really knows how to balance hypercarries. Ryze Kayle :^)

ßlameMyADCNov 11, 20191 votes

Kayle isn't even a real champion until minute 11. Most Games end before she even hits level 16. Unles she AFK Farms and permasplitpushes.

And even then she's got a lot of DOT but nothing to burst you away in an instant like... idk practically all mages in the game?

WoonStruckNov 11, 20193 votes

That's not true. She's not a real champion until gunblade. After that its smooth sailing if you aren't significantly behind.

slim skitNov 11, 20197 votes

such bullshit lol kayle has some lane matchups she destroys. her being terrible early game is low elo myth

Trias000Nov 11, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Riot really knows how to balance hypercarries. :^)

And Vladimir

CatastroclysmNov 10, 201911 votes

Yeah I don't really understand him, or Vlad for that matter. How can either be allowed to exist? Such extreme power at basically every stage of the game, with such a low skill floor/ceiling... Idk tbh.

WoonStruckNov 11, 20192 votes

Vlad doesn't have 'extreme power' until lvl 13+. He doesn't even have kill pressure at 6 unless the enemy laner made HEAVY mistakes, which has nothing to do with his balance.

Sorry to break it to you, but most champions can pressure him out of the game if they play it properly before then.

Hell, Kass, Kayle, Nasus, etc counter him because they have a similar early game WHILE BEING MELEE and scale harder.

Charmy BirdNov 11, 201914 votes

{quoted}

Vlad doesn't have 'extreme power' until lvl 13+. He doesn't even have kill pressure at 6 unless the enemy laner made HEAVY mistakes, which has nothing to do with his balance.

Sorry to break it to you, but most champions can pressure him out of the game if they play it properly before then.

Hell, Kass, Kayle, Nasus, etc counter him because they have a similar early game WHILE BEING MELEE and scale harder.

Yea it's so easy to counter someone who is far behind minions due to his range and then has a w that is basically moving zonya while he heals every trade u did to him. U Vladimir mains are lying to yourselves.

WoonStruckNov 11, 20192 votes

Try playing him. 450 range is 'so far behind minions'. Yeah, right. He has really short range for a ranged champion, and lacks utility almost entirely.

You'll notice that you have a hard time approaching the wave after they force W+phase rush from you, especially if they were smart and went boots+phage or boots+MR.

They'll out-trade you every time so hard that your sustain won't help you. If they went boots+phage, you're just dead, especially if you took magical footwear.

Mid everyone out-ranges him and has a pretty easy time with him.

VampiricLlamaNov 11, 20191 votes

Mid everyone out-ranges him and has a pretty easy time with him.

Katarina gets zoned hard lv 1, Vlad hits 2 first and zones even harder. There are windows to jump on him but just between minion damage and autos he will probably go even in early trades and sustain back up with Q afterwards. Lv 3 onward he just holds pool and shuts down her engage every single time.

The only way Katarina beats Vladimir is if he screws up... then again that's the only way she ever beats anyone besides Velkoz ...

NodirjonSattarovNov 12, 20191 votes

level 1 melee gets zoned by level 1 ranged who would have known

Mighty MorteinNov 10, 201911 votes

Maybe it's time they change his identity? Not fully, but this "shotgun" or "machine gun" mage identity clearly isn't healthy. Dude has never been balanced.

5050BSNov 11, 20193 votes

I wish Riot would learn we dont want Carpal tunnel from playing this game.

Chocolate CakeNov 11, 20195 votes

Imagine an AP champ that has not a single tank item having more health then you as a tank but also doing 20% of your Hp with 1 ability that's spammable....

FNC VanukasNov 10, 20194 votes

No worries I think Ryze will get another rework like in every season XD

You can always ban ryze :)

WoonStruckNov 10, 20193 votes

And he'll end up more and more broken than how problematic his original 2 versions were.

Doopliss7Nov 10, 20194 votes

they either need to nerf his base dmg from abilities, or the ap scaling, or the mana scaling. mana is just way too easy and cheap to come by to scale off of it.

with vlad scaling with Hp, there's not a REALLY good hp with ap item like seraph/roa is to ryze.

an idea you can try is to just remove his ap scalings totally and just make his damage scale only with mana. bonus ap is converted to mana. weird idea but its unique. kinda like how pyke cant build HP but it gives him ad, except with ryze you cant build ap but it'll give him mana which acts like ap. this removes his double scaling on his abilities and they can focus on balancing him around mana items.

SucctionNov 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

they either need to nerf his base dmg from abilities, or the ap scaling, or the mana scaling. mana is just way too easy and cheap to come by to scale off of it.

with vlad scaling with Hp, there's not a REALLY good hp with ap item like seraph/roa is to ryze.

an idea you can try is to just remove his ap scalings totally and just make his damage scale only with mana. bonus ap is converted to mana. weird idea but its unique. kinda like how pyke cant build HP but it gives him ad, except with ryze you cant build ap but it'll give him mana which acts like ap. this removes his double scaling on his abilities and they can focus on balancing him around mana items.

Eh tbf with that Vlad thing, even if there was a good HP/AP item it wouldn't do a lot. He gets a TON of HP from AP, but almost not AP from HP. A warmogs gives him something like 20 AP lol

LuthianDelphiNov 11, 20194 votes

he's a rapid fire DPS mage who has a burst mages damage, his single rotation damage should be more in line with Cassiopeia or Azirs (both high damage but not insanely bursty.) As it stands right now Ryze can hit you with 1 empowered Q and chunk you for most your HP, its simply too much.

He also doesn't have the same damage gates as most DPS mages, (Cassio needs poison, Azir needs soldiers in range, Old Asol needed to kite on stars) his DPS is by far the LEAST conditional of all of those and his burst is much higher. He can be a burst mage or a DPS mage but please don't let him be both.

toby mcteagueNov 11, 20191 votes

Lets be real his burst relies on htting that Q .

LuthianDelphiNov 11, 20192 votes

Yes he has to hit the Q, but hitting his Q is far less conditional than "the target being poisoned, the target being at the edge of your stars, the target being in your soldiers". Ryze has DPS thats less conditional, does more burst on initial rotation, and requires less items to be effective than any other DPS mage.

RyzeReworkNov 11, 20193 votes

Crazy a immobile mage does high damage you can out range him or hard cc him hes not invunable

toby mcteagueNov 11, 20192 votes

Yeah, like, I think Cassiopeia does more dmg than Ryze, has more reliable movement speed buffs, has more CC (since she usually builds Rylais), and has more sustain.

I dont think people are calling Cassiopeia bullshit at all.

SMURFF NAME HERENov 11, 20195 votes

Cassiopeia does more dmg than Ryze

When you see Cassio Es doing 1600 damage to multiple targets you get back to me.

RyzeReworkNov 11, 20191 votes

Cassio e is a .75 cd?? And point and click

toby mcteagueNov 11, 20191 votes

Yes, she does more dmg than Ryze.

Heck, Cassiopeia beats Ryze in every stage of the game after she gets Tear (because lets be real, Cassiopeia only has 350 base mana and 7-8 es will burn thru it.

toby mcteagueNov 11, 20191 votes

You dont know what your talking about. Ryze does not do 1600 to multiple targets in a teamfight. Quit making false claims.

2nd she does more raw dps than Ruze, her E is at a 1/2 second cd once she hits max cdr. In addition, she can kite much harder and has better anti mobility cc. Ryze has more upfront burst, but Cass is way better in a 1v2 1v3 than Ryze.

Like I said Ryze lacks sustain, which Cassiopeia has. Cassiopeia can still do AOE dmg, not as mich as Ryze, but lets stop pretending Ryze blows up whole teams with just EQ. Unless your team is dumb enough to be that close to each other, or you get wombo combod, Cass is a mich better teamfighter than Ryze.

She has more potential CC, she can perma slow multiple targets with Rylais Q, she has grounding (One of the STRONGEST not ultimates in the game), and more CC on her ultimate.

Cassiopeia beats Ryze in : Raw DPS (she is probalby top 3 in highest DPS) CC, Kiting, Teamfighting.

Ryze beats Cassiopeia in : Upfront burst, objective control (with ult)

I dont think I’ve had a problem with Ryze unless im playing Teemo or some immobile melee champion.

SMURFF NAME HERENov 12, 20192 votes

Ryze does not do 1600 to multiple targets

https://i.imgur.com/2U0vRCX.png

Explain this then? That's Showmaker doing 1723 damage with an empowered Q to multiple targets. Sure, it would be less to champions with higher magic resistance but he has void staff anyway

Let's stop pretending Ryze blows up whole temas with just EQ

If you watched worlds at all that's literally what he does lategame.

mark6028Nov 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Crazy a immobile mage does high damage you can out range him or hard cc him hes not invunable

Immobile mage that runs around with 80% MS boost and slow resist KEKW

RyzeReworkNov 11, 20191 votes

So then attack the keystone that does that not the mage it's just like vladimir running around 1 shotting people and having back up

Linna ExcelNov 11, 20193 votes

Considering how bad his ult is for soloq, it's not a surprise the rest of the kit is so good.

BigChinLesbianNov 10, 20192 votes

Well you are not high elo, so I dont see how that really affects you at all. Most Ryzes look like G2 Wunder and and up inting their brains out no matter what elo.

Anime FizzNov 10, 201919 votes

[{quoted}](name=C9 Aycee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rkNWFtva,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-10T17:42:43.101+0000)

Well you are not high elo, so I dont see how that really affects you at all. Most Ryzes look like G2 Wunder and and up inting their brains out no matter what elo.

Im D1 right now and already there is nothing i can do to ryzes unless he gets extremely cocky and chase for kills while my jungler is nearby.

TheLastShawNov 11, 20191 votes

You can try not playing champs like Tryndamere which are hard countered by Ryze. You wanna see a real top lane bully, that no one can do anything against? Take Caitlyn with Glacial Aug and Aproach Velocity top. As long as you can avoid jungle ganks its a free first blood and first tower.

WeexazysNov 11, 20194 votes

The problem is not being a lane bully lmao... Renekton exists and hes balanced, the problem is when your lane bully scales like Ryze . something Caitlyn doesnt.

BrokenRayquazaNov 10, 20192 votes

Wow, it's almost like they try to fix this every year and it never works!

The King DiamondNov 11, 20192 votes

He always have been broken and probably still will be broken. Riot just loves that blue or whatever that color is old pops. I don't, so I would love to see any nerfs.