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Let's Talk Tristana...

OtterlyLost··2 votes·692 views

https://na.op.gg/champion/tristana/statistics/adc

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tristana

http://champion.gg/champion/Tristana/ADC

http://www.lolking.net/champions/tristana

She has a low play rate and is consistently middling to low in win rate. They gave her a tiny buff a few patches ago that helped her Q feel less clunky which kept her a float for a while but now she's drifting lower and lower on the win rate tier list. Part of this is that a lot of champions that counter her(Draven, Lucian, Caitlyn) are really strong right now and its absolute destroying her. She's had a lower than usual win rate for a while now, actually, due to Lucian's popularity and high win rate, only finally reaching a 50-51% for the brief window of time where he was absolute trash tier. There are also other options that scale better than her or do her job better that just are flatly in better spots(Twitch is currently outscaling every ADC, even Kog'maw, and he honestly should be looked at but there's also Jinx and soon enough, Kindred will eat up what's left of Tristana's one niche area of being the longest ranged AD).

The other part of her failing as a champion is the fact that, as an AA based ADC, she is far too CD reliant and has a build path that doesn't allow her to build any meaningful CDR. ER is a wasted item slot on her as she doesn't need the mana and is much more interested in getting her IE and AS Crit item as soon as possible; her AS growth as the game goes on is naturally lower than every other ADC as is her base AS in order to make up for the massive AS bonus that her Q gives. Youmuu's used to be viable on her when it still gave AS and it gave her some CDR that she desperately needed. And going Ionian Boots is just not an option as she needs the AS from Berserker Greaves; essentially, she can't go the CDR boots for the same reason she can't go ER.

A final issue that exists, I also feel like, is that over the the past two seasons since her rework, she has slowly lost her identity. When I started playing her in Season 5, I knew what my main's identity was; she was the best, safesty late game hyper carry. However, as the seasons have progressed and other champions changed, she's lost that niche to other champions. Caitlyn and Jinx are two of the biggest offenders here. Caitlyn offers the same late game hyper carry status with the same or better safety. Jinx sieges better than Tristana and doesn't have to wait 17 levels to get the same amount of range; she also has better AoE damage in teamfights, synergizes better with ADC items, and generally feels like Tristana without the jump.

And again, now Kindred is also encroaching on Tristana's turf as number one, safest late game hyper carry. Kindred is essentially a better Tristana in everyway with her current rework. Her Q is Tristana's Jump + AS Steroid + Runaan's all rolled into one nice neat package. Kindred's passive is almost a direct rip off of Tristana's current one only arguable, Kindred can make hers go even further than Tristana's ever could. And Kindred's ult make her so much better at dealing with divers than Tristana could even dream of.

I would really like to see changes of some kind to Tristana. I don't want to see her mire away in a gutter because Riot have continued to release and rework champions that just flatly do her job better and have stolen her spot. :/ I would like to see her be less CD reliant, I would like to see her passive buffed in someway so it could at least compete with Kindred's, and I would honestly like to see some AD items that she synergizes well with. Not even necessarily add more; just make it so that she has a legitimately good build path. People build Runaan's on her but honestly, its only so she can do more AoE damage in teamfights; not for any real reason like it goes well with her kit.

9 Comments

Leyin3 votes

great arguments. I would be very happy too, when trist comes back.

OtterlyLost2 votes

[{quoted}](name=KNTE Lukas,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t3J6KdeO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-25T17:15:43.340+0000)

great arguments. I would be very happy too, when trist comes back.

I would love it myself. The last time I played her and felt like I was really strong and good was honestly the season 6 preseason and even then, I don't think it was just because Tristana herself was strong but because ALL ADCs were strong. She was actually pretty good right after her rework in Season 5 and I started playing her midway or toward the end of that season; however, they nerfed her in I believe the very last patch of that season and that nerf has really hurt her for a while now as I feel like it was actually very good for her kit. Used to, her Q and E would lower each other's CDs. If she was AA someone with Q up and a bomb on them, essentially their CDs would lower so that she'd have them up again sooner. Which was great because she has really long CDs. But they changed it and gave her a very minor(and honestly not half as good) compensation buff by allowing her jump to reset on bombs that explode on enemies. :/ This isn't half as useful or good as as the Q-E Synergy was and I wish that they'd revert both the nerf and that minor compensation buff; it would make her as a whole a much smoother champion.

Leyin1 votes

{quoted}

I would love it myself. The last time I played her and felt like I was really strong and good was honestly the season 6 preseason and even then, I don't think it was just because Tristana herself was strong but because ALL ADCs were strong. She was actually pretty good right after her rework in Season 5 and I started playing her midway or toward the end of that season; however, they nerfed her in I believe the very last patch of that season and that nerf has really hurt her for a while now as I feel like it was actually very good for her kit. Used to, her Q and E would lower each other's CDs. If she was AA someone with Q up and a bomb on them, essentially their CDs would lower so that she'd have them up again sooner. Which was great because she has really long CDs. But they changed it and gave her a very minor(and honestly not half as good) compensation buff by allowing her jump to reset on bombs that explode on enemies. :/ This isn't half as useful or good as as the Q-E Synergy was and I wish that they'd revert both the nerf and that minor compensation buff; it would make her as a whole a much smoother champion.

Yeah, Trist has a very interesting kit, but she can only fight well when she got feed in early. She can engage and kill ony by one, but today the disengage of adc's and supps is so hard that she dies when she engages. Another options hasn'T she, she needs something to be able to stay in the back line for a bit, ( maybe her E can stay on ground when it miss) just something that she can use her strength without risk her whole life.

Speeedy1 votes

the bomb should not miss at all, that is a direct nerf to her kit since by the time you can throw it use her animation cancel to get a free charge off on it.

she needs one of the following buffs, if not a combination of a few

  1. base attack range +25
  2. passive increase from 7 to 9
  3. When her E is fully charged it auto detonates or you can press E again to detonate it before the timer expires
  4. Decrease her jump animation time
  5. Allow her to be non-targetable during her jump (like fizz)
  6. Match her Q and E cooldown times to be the same as her E (16, 15.5, 15, 14.5, 14)
  7. Explosive charge range matches her auto attack range (i think they fixed this but not 100% sure)
  8. ulting someone with E on their head should count as 2 stacks
  9. ult someone into a wall it counts as a stun (like vayne E)

thats all i can think of off the top of my head without doing a major rework to her

OtterlyLost2 votes

{quoted}

the bomb should not miss at all, that is a direct nerf to her kit since by the time you can throw it use her animation cancel to get a free charge off on it.

she needs one of the following buffs, if not a combination of a few

  1. base attack range +25
  2. passive increase from 7 to 9
  3. When her E is fully charged it auto detonates or you can press E again to detonate it before the timer expires
  4. Decrease her jump animation time
  5. Allow her to be non-targetable during her jump (like fizz)
  6. Match her Q and E cooldown times to be the same as her E (16, 15.5, 15, 14.5, 14)
  7. Explosive charge range matches her auto attack range (i think they fixed this but not 100% sure)
  8. ulting someone with E on their head should count as 2 stacks
  9. ult someone into a wall it counts as a stun (like vayne E)

thats all i can think of off the top of my head without doing a major rework to her

I think that making her Jump cause her to be untargetable would be nice. Her E does auto detonate at full stacks though and it does match her AA range if I'm not mistaken. I think the sixth thing you mentioned is the one that's most likely to happen and I'd appreciate the most though; like I said, at one time the two of them worked together to reduce each other's CD's.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

From what i can tell. The reason tris is no longer meta is because she is one of the last true "marksman". By that i mean with the adc are supposed to be ranged, auto attack heavy champs. However, for the sake of "champ diversity" riot took the adc's and turned them into ranged AD casters, while simultaneously buffing AD itemization in both armor pen and CDR to even further strengthen their AD abilities(that deal physical dmg). Tris not only is "all but completely" auto reliant, but abilities scale with neither CDR or armor pen(aside from her ult, which scales with cdr). This is also why jinx fell out of meta so fast after the changes. However, unlike tris, jinx scales with AD and cdr a little with her W traps and ult, which is why she isn't nearly as screwed as tris. Ashe,(the only other marksman IMO) is similar to jinx except she has ult stun+Q to make up for lack of ability burst dmg.

The only ways to get tris back into meta IMO is to;

  1. buff her to absurd lvls and counteract the current "adc's" strength at all point of the game(she will be OP AF).
  2. Change her abilities deal physical instead of magic dmg, so she can abuse armor pen.
  3. UnRework AD items to provide less CDR and armor pen.
  4. UnRework Adc's back to being marksman instead of AD casters.
OtterlyLost2 votes

{quoted}

From what i can tell. The reason tris is no longer meta is because she is one of the last true "marksman". By that i mean with the adc are supposed to be ranged, auto attack heavy champs. However, for the sake of "champ diversity" riot took the adc's and turned them into ranged AD casters, while simultaneously buffing AD itemization in both armor pen and CDR to even further strengthen their AD abilities(that deal physical dmg). Tris not only is "all but completely" auto reliant, but abilities scale with neither CDR or armor pen(aside from her ult, which scales with cdr). This is also why jinx fell out of meta so fast after the changes. However, unlike tris, jinx scales with AD and cdr a little with her W traps and ult, which is why she isn't nearly as screwed as tris. Ashe,(the only other marksman IMO) is similar to jinx except she has ult stun+Q to make up for lack of ability burst dmg.

The only ways to get tris back into meta IMO is to;

  1. buff her to absurd lvls and counteract the current "adc's" strength at all point of the game(she will be OP AF).
  2. Change her abilities deal physical instead of magic dmg, so she can abuse armor pen.
  3. UnRework AD items to provide less CDR and armor pen.
  4. UnRework Adc's back to being marksman instead of AD casters.

To be fair, Caitlyn is still very much AA Reliant, its just her rework was kinder to her and has her kit synergize around her AAs. Tristana scales very well with CDR; all champions do. The problem is that Tristana can't build CDR; it just doesn't fit into her build very well and the one CDR item she could viably run was Youmuu's before they nerfed it and removed the AS steroid. It helped her early to mid game a lot by giving her early pen on top of a great active that synergized with her Q well and decent AD and some much needed CDR to help her long as hell CDs.

They have her abilities deal magic damage, however, partly because she is a hyper carry. Most hyper carries don't deal only one form of damage; there is usually some magic damage in there to help itemizing against them harder. Even if they did scale with AD(which most do actually have a very small AD Scaling) their cool downs are so long that it wouldn't matter.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

Technically kinda yeah. But it's because her Autos have insane AD scaling on them like Vayne and Draven do that make her scale insanely well with pen + she has Q and ULT. Her rework wasn't "kinder" to her, they straight up buff all her scaling so that she can be a better AD caster with Q- ult and head shots(not technically an ability, but has same effect build and scaling wise).

Tristana scales very well with CDR

She "scales", but certainly not "well" her Q and E are all tied to attack speed(AS buff and AA's stacking bomb dmg)and her W is reset dependent. Making her ult the only ability that scales decently with CDR.

It helped her early to mid game a lot by giving her early pen

tris liked yommus for the same reason as every other adc, which was the AS active. They rest was a bonus. It STILL gives AD, CDR, and pen. Tris scales horribly with pen unless she buys something like item 3153 since it's passive does physical, but even then, she only want's enough to break heavy armor. ALL of tris abilities deal magic dmg except the passive splash dmg on her E. She is an AS, and crit champ(like pretty much all Adc's used to be), but crit hasn't been worth a crap since the "marksman update" other then that short period where the static items were blatantly OP.

Most hyper carries don't deal only one form of damage

This isn't even remotely true, so imma just ignore.

OtterlyLost2 votes

{quoted}

Technically kinda yeah. But it's because her Autos have insane AD scaling on them like Vayne and Draven do that make her scale insanely well with pen + she has Q and ULT. Her rework wasn't "kinder" to her, they straight up buff all her scaling so that she can be a better AD caster with Q- ult and head shots(not technically an ability, but has same effect build and scaling wise).

She "scales", but certainly not "well" her Q and E are all tied to attack speed(AS buff and AA's stacking bomb dmg)and her W is reset dependent. Making her ult the only ability that scales decently with CDR.

tris liked yommus for the same reason as every other adc, which was the AS active. They rest was a bonus. It STILL gives AD, CDR, and pen. Tris scales horribly with pen unless she buys something like item 3153 since it's passive does physical, but even then, she only want's enough to break heavy armor. ALL of tris abilities deal magic dmg except the passive splash dmg on her E. She is an AS, and crit champ(like pretty much all Adc's used to be), but crit hasn't been worth a crap since the "marksman update" other then that short period where the static items were blatantly OP.

This isn't even remotely true, so imma just ignore.

All ADCs scale with Pen as most of them have AA's that are AD damage, first and foremost. Second of all, all of her abilities are affected by CDR meaning all of her abilities scale well with it. Having CDR means that Tristana could, theoretically, have more up time on her Q, W, and E. There actually isn't a single Crit scaling on any of her abilities; her bomb does not crit and her Q does indirect benefit from crit and AS but only because it is only an Attack Speed Steroid. All of her Cooldowns are long which means she would actually really like CDR but, as I said multiple times, her build path doesn't allow it.

I specifically used to rush Youmuu's on Tristana when it was a good item because it gave me AD(which she liked), AS with the Active(that synergized really well with the AS she already gets from her Q), and because it gave her some early, flat armor pen that helped her AA's get through tankier characters until she could get to her Last Whisper. Saying that ADCs don't like Armor Pen and don't scale with it is more or less saying that they shouldn't be build Last Whisper and its derivatives; its false and ridiculous.

She likes building BoRK now for all the same reasons that she liked to build Youmuu's, minus the CDR that she desperately needed. It gives her AS, good AD, and a way to deal with tanks until she can get her big ticket Armor Pen item. And no, ALL of Tristana's abilities do not deal magic damage. Her bomb actually deals physical damage when exploding on an enemy; my source is her wikipage and my own knowledge of a character I've played consistently enough to have 800k mastery points on. The splash damage from her E actually does magic damage and that scales with AP, which is the thing you ridiculously say does physical. Furthermore, her bomb has a ratio both for AP and AD, which was why for the brief period of time it was broken, Tristana also liked Guinsoo's; its passive synergized well with her E's passive and also gave it damage on both scalings along with giving her AS the longer she AA'd and being able to stack it quickly with Q.

As for my statement about most hypercarries not dealing one type of damage, it honestly is true. Kog'maw is one of the best hyper carries in the game and does both magic and physical damage with his W. Twitch has True Damage as part of his passive. The new Kindred's Wolf will do magic damage and Percent Missing Health Damage. Vayne does true damage every third AA. The only Hypercarry I can think of that does straight physical damage is Jinx and even she doesn't count since her ult is an execute.

I've played a lot of Tristana; I know what does and doesn't work, what scales with what, and what kind of damage she does. :/

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