Can we actually balance botlane?

OtterlyLost··5 votes·1,418 views

Like, fine, whatever, you gutted ADCs and you clearly have no intention of fixing them; you made it perfectly clear that if you're a marksmen main, there's no place for you anymore. Whoo Diversity and shit, big fucking claps everywhere.

So how about you actually start fucking balancing the goddamn lane? Just going off winrates alone there are some absolutely absurd ones; Xerath, who has an admittedly small pick rate, has a 57% win rate. He's creeping up onto a 60%; that's ridiculously regardless of play rate.

Another thing is that I wish you'd address the fact that a lot of these bot lane picks can both take a support item and abuse the passive gold off them, essentially skyrocketing their own gold income. This is shit because taking a support item is something you nerfed on ADC's because it gave them a small shield and helped their support get items faster; why are you allowing it on the new meta picks bot lane?

Or how about addressing the double mage bot lane that's been a thing for a while; you refuse to buff Caitlyn at all and you give Tristana a shitty buff in order to "preserve the bot lane diversity" and because Cait "gets to decide if who she lanes against" but do nothing to address double mages who are far more oppressive on everyone with their insane poke and base damages.

Can you like address any of these issues?

16 Comments

Silly Neeko3 votes

Most mages have skill shots, lots of them, nearly exclusively skill shots. This means they need a little something to reward them for hitting their skill shots. While they can spam it, they need an item or two to get into the realm of being able to do anything more than just be annoying.

Xerath is a cheese champ that people dont pick against in bott lane, and most dont play against him in bott lane early on so they dont understand his kit. Same goes for with Vlad etc in bott.

When someone knows how to play against him, its not as hard as you might think.

Likewise, i was a morg with a darius bott and had a kassa and gragas bott on the enemy team. They got stomped. We then proceeded to stomp on their team as well.

The problem most bott laners are facing is that they have no clue about the matchup. They havent played as or against it, and so they need to improvise on the fly which does not always work out, especially if enemy ganks come often.

OtterlyLost4 votes

Its not skillful when there are two mages in a lane spamming spells every one to two seconds; they missed their combo. They can just try again in five seconds, especially after they've gotten their mana items. They don't even really have to farm because they both can take Spellthiefs and just farm the procs. So saying that they need something to reward them for hitting their abilities is bullshit. And no, they do not need an item or two in order to do anything beyond be annoying. Brand would like a word with you.

Xerath is not a cheese pick, especially not when he's bot lane with immobile, squish ADCs who have low health regen; he out ranges many of them and many of their supports with his extreme artillery style attacks and only really has to get close enough to throw out one AA for mana and then retreat. If you give him someone like Lux as a "support" and suddenly, as long as one of them can land their skillshot CC, its no longer a "cheese" strat but an effective tactic. And regardless, if Xerath is a "cheese pick" than he's on the level of Taric mid and needs to be adjusted as such; Taric mid was also a cheese pick but has since become extremely problematic. I say nip "cheese picks" in the bud while they're small.

And finally, most of the players that actually played botlane are no longer playing botlane. This is supported by the fact that on a global scale, across all ranks and regions, the role "ADC" has dropped the the least mained role while top has skyrocketed into the most(Source: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/main-stats/all ). The only people going bot now with any regularity are top and mid mains so they know the match ups just fine. And again, even if it does happen to be an ADC main actually playing an ADC bot lane, it doesn't matter if they know the match up or not; they are playing generally a low mobility champion with purposefully nerfed health regen, low defenses(we're talking like 25-30 MR at level 1), and no meaningful ways of sustaining themselves with their primary keystone having been gutted and, ironically, made better for AP champions. Any poke a double mage bot lane lands is going to stick, is going to do a decent chunk of damage, and is honestly free and easy when the person they're aiming at would literally need scripts in order to perfectly dodge the six or so skillshots being lobbed at them every 2-6 seconds.

You also didn't address the fact that many of these picks are abusing the support starting items to get essentially free gold and, honestly, unfair levels of sustain since support items are specifically kept cheap and allow supports to buy three pots instead of just one or two. One of the weaknesses of a melee champion into a ranged champion match up is specifically supposed to be that they're melee and the ranged champion can poke them out and zone. Unless the other laner is literally a double mage bot lane, no one has enough damage to affectively poke out these melee picks who are going double relic and getting shittons of healing off that as well as getting three pots and extra health. This is the same kind of shit that got relic shield nerfed and changed for marksmen; why are melee champions who are already hard to poke out and can honestly all in most squishies at level 3 or more getting to do the same abuse?

Like I said, its patently clear that they aren't going to fix or help marksmen in the least. However, that doesn't excuse them from balancing the new botlane meta so that certain picks are just absolutely steamrolling the game. There's honestly no excuse as to why I should go Xayah and be unable to poke out a Garen "support" because he has bone plating, his passive, three health pots, and relic while at the same time be unable to survive the extreme poke from a Zoe "ADC" who also has more pots than I do and gets a far longer range.

RekSai CoffeeCo3 votes

{quoted}

Like I said, its patently clear that they aren't going to fix or help marksmen in the least.

It also appears that aren't going to balance jungle/fix scuttle crab either, they really are intent to watch the game burn then admit a mistake they made and actually fix the problem instead of adjusting champs/items.

Silly Neeko1 votes

Scripts? Lol do you normally just sit there and not move when you see an enemy around? If you were not predictable then you wouldnt have a problem. Let them spam their skills, they will run out of mana, and if that xerath comes to take a auto shot for mana.... smack him! You think mages have good health regen? They are around the same as marksmen when it comes to that. Some have built in sustain, however, but Xerath does not... Zoe does not.... etc.

You obviously have had no clue that APC has been a thing for ages. Garen is an annoyance all his own, not many can poke him out of lane and he cant really do much unless he is full ad.... which would likely kill most people. However, have you thought about playing the champions differently? With different builds? For example, Black cleaver would do well on Xayah especially vs tanks. Add that to a Murmana and guinsoos and bork and you have a pretty decent, lower cost build than before. Each feather will activate the BC, and you can enjoy more added benefits without being a "1hko" champ that just deletes everything or is deleted. THE BUILD CAN VARY.

Obviously from your speaking, you must be a top or mid main who is going bott. Otherwise, you are a bott main who is being smashed by the newer bott lane meta. Each meta change required a change in your thinking. It does not require you to play a different champ to stay relevant, but rather a change in how you play that champ.

I did not address the support items because the support items are not much of a problem. Either they have to actually hit their shots, they have to deal with a lack of mana, (if they have any) and two of the items dont even work unless you are not getting the farm consistantly which is a big no no in most every aspect. If that is a problem (seeing as most people take about 10-15 mins to complete their quest for the support items), then they would be stomping you even without them. That is the game of League. You either are getting stomped, or you are stomping, on a rare occasion it is a fairly even matchup, inwhich the jungler will have to make a play when able.... which means you need to learn wave management. The key is working with it not trying to be like "this needs changed, this needs changed" maybe you need to change. Change how you play.

I still also never have had that much issues with Zoe. Im not really sure what all this hype is about her being "so strong" is about. I have more problems with Yi being allowed to go in and 1v5 and then still be able to go and take out the baron or a tower. THAT i have more issues with. But yet theres ways of going and killing him... theres things you can do to counter him.... OH WAIT thats exactly what i said before lol.

rtbf553599092 votes

{quoted}

Scripts? Lol do you normally just sit there and not move when you see an enemy around? If you were not predictable then you wouldnt have a problem. Let them spam their skills, they will run out of mana, and if that xerath comes to take a auto shot for mana.... smack him! You think mages have good health regen? They are around the same as marksmen when it comes to that. Some have built in sustain, however, but Xerath does not... Zoe does not.... etc.

You obviously have had no clue that APC has been a thing for ages. Garen is an annoyance all his own, not many can poke him out of lane and he cant really do much unless he is full ad.... which would likely kill most people. However, have you thought about playing the champions differently? With different builds? For example, Black cleaver would do well on Xayah especially vs tanks. Add that to a Murmana and guinsoos and bork and you have a pretty decent, lower cost build than before. Each feather will activate the BC, and you can enjoy more added benefits without being a "1hko" champ that just deletes everything or is deleted. THE BUILD CAN VARY.

Obviously from your speaking, you must be a top or mid main who is going bott. Otherwise, you are a bott main who is being smashed by the newer bott lane meta. Each meta change required a change in your thinking. It does not require you to play a different champ to stay relevant, but rather a change in how you play that champ.

I did not address the support items because the support items are not much of a problem. Either they have to actually hit their shots, they have to deal with a lack of mana, (if they have any) and two of the items dont even work unless you are not getting the farm consistantly which is a big no no in most every aspect. If that is a problem (seeing as most people take about 10-15 mins to complete their quest for the support items), then they would be stomping you even without them. That is the game of League. You either are getting stomped, or you are stomping, on a rare occasion it is a fairly even matchup, inwhich the jungler will have to make a play when able.... which means you need to learn wave management. The key is working with it not trying to be like "this needs changed, this needs changed" maybe you need to change. Change how you play.

I still also never have had that much issues with Zoe. Im not really sure what all this hype is about her being "so strong" is about. I have more problems with Yi being allowed to go in and 1v5 and then still be able to go and take out the baron or a tower. THAT i have more issues with. But yet theres ways of going and killing him... theres things you can do to counter him.... OH WAIT thats exactly what i said before lol.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about at all

Silly Neeko1 votes

Sure. Thats what it is. And this is totally not sarcasm.

OtterlyLost2 votes

Pretty sure that is what it is so thanks for admitting it.

rtbf553599092 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure that is what it is so thanks for admitting it.

We have people like him and hashinshin actually balancing the game to the state it is now. All hope is lost.

rtbf553599093 votes

Im convinced that they dont even test their buffs, nerfs and reworks

Illabethe3 votes

Tbh I have yet to see many made/fighter duos do anything but first 3-5 minute feed. Some catch up some performance later, but not before they unload unholy fed adcs on their team and lopside the games.

Adcs still win bot lane.

Silly Neeko1 votes

^ they dont often know how to work with eachother, its kind of funny seeing them scramble about lol, unless they are a duo and have done some of that stuff before, it usually just ends up worse for them than if they didnt listen to all this hype in the first place lol

OtterlyLost2 votes

My primary complaint never had anything to do with bruisers. I believe most of my complaints were directed toward mages, who are oppressive to deal with in the bot lane.

I did complain that bruisers and melee champs bot are taking double relic and not really losing anything for it. They hard shove the lane, they get excessive amounts of healing off the procs and the three pots, theres excess health on them as well since relic gives health, and since they have high base damages, they aren't losing damage. And this all makes then very hard to poke out and use any kind of range to any kind of success.

Double support item is not just a two melee thing either. I saw a mage and melee both take a support item; double support items are problematic even if they arent killing you because they give passive gold gen. So even if they're actually managing to get zoned off, they're still getting gold.

LemurMonster2 votes

Mages need a nerf as well as fighters. They have far too much burst/damage that is needed now that adcs damage has been town down. Even building magic resist is somewhat pointless I feel.

Kuling2 votes

Its all because they rekt crit (IE) builds, they are rendering all crit oriented adcs useless until 30-40min (because they need atleast 3-4 items to do dmg..). IE is the problem.. I mean it cant be bought as a first item anymore and the other option is stormrazer which is not nearly as good as the old IE rush was. Marsman NEED a good starting item back. They would have to rework this awkward item called stormrazor, and not give it 5 ad like this patch and hope it fixes something.. I mean 5 ad?! Lmao.. Anyway from what I've heard they'll be buffing mages next patch, so indeed, all hope is lost for marksman now.

Need Gold 4 Tent2 votes

No they don't. They're meant to start weak, not reach "lategame" with 2 items, and don't ever fall off from there.

Sasogwa1 votes

Is it the first time you're looking at statistics? Cause the numbers you're giving considering playrate aren't even alarming, we've seen way worse and it has high variance between patches, based on randomness alone (since not a lot of games)

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