Tip for laning against AD assassins; How to spend your first 2000 gold

Lao Fu the Tiger··9 votes·777 views

I made this post in another thread and figured it may help shed some light on the controversy behind rushing item 3191 on mages. Do you rush Seeker's and "give up" on buying a mana item, or do you tough out the lane and rush that Morellonomicon because you need to cast more spells? Let's find out.

For me personally, I almost always grab two Rings simply because it gives 100% regen and a decent amount of AP for what it's worth. The tradeoff is CDR from item 3114 otherwise. But let's think about it with some math.

item 3191item 1056item 1056 is 2000 gold and provides the following:

  • 65 AP (more than Unholy Grail)
  • 45 Armour
  • ~150% mana regen (hitting 3/4 minions at +8 mana each adds ~6 mp5, roughly 50% mana regen for most champions)
  • 120 HP

This isn't a bad start at all. Plenty of AP for laning, plenty of mana regen, and life's good. Depending on how well you CS, you could have a little more or a little less than 150% mana regen. Hitting half the minions would give you about 125%, for instance.

Another option for 2050 gold is starting item 1056 and building item 3108 item 3114 and item 1029 to start Seeker's. The argument here is getting some mana from starting Morello while still not committing to the entire item before starting Seeker's.

  • 35 AP
  • 15 Armour
  • ~125% mana regen
  • 60 HP
  • 20% CDR

Same logic with the mana regeneration. In my opinion, this is significantly worse than double Doran's; you trade 60 HP, 30 AP, 30 Armour, and ~25% mana regen for 20% CDR. For some mages (and/or players) this maaay be worth it, but for me personally it isn't.

For 2800 gold (price of starting Ring + entire Morellonomicon), you can get item 1056 item 1056 item 3191 item 3108 .

  • 90 AP
  • 45 Armour
  • ~150% mana regen
  • 120 HP
  • 10% CDR

Replace Codex with Idol (2550G), you get...

  • 65 AP
  • 45 Armour
  • ~200% mana regen
  • 120 HP
  • 10% CDR

Clearly, these early stats are pretty solid. But now, let's look at rushing the entire mana item first, after starting with a Doran's Ring, of course.

Rushing item 1056 item 3165 for 2800 gold gives....

  • 105 AP
  • ~200% mana regen
  • 20% CDR

I think the stats speak for themselves. item 1056 item 1056 item 3191 item 3108 Is a great way to spend 2800 gold that gives nearly the same mana regen (only slightly less) AND a good chunk of armour and health. If you really need the mana, switching Codex for Idol means trading a bit of AP for more mana regen. Whether or not this kind of starting build is worth it is up to you; for me, it's worth it 100%.

The power spike still comes, it just comes a few minutes later. However, it also demands a shift in mindset. The key factor when laning against champions like Zed is patience. Remember, eventually you'll have both an item 3157 and a item 3165; it's just about being patient enough to farm to later in the game. Play passively. Using Seeker's + Rings gives you added security (Armour + HP) while still having a decent mana pool and not losing farm because you have to back every 3 minutes.

TL;DR: Do not feel a pressing need to rush a mana item on a mage rather than Seeker's. Just pick up an extra Doran's Ring, or even two (for three total) and you'll have plenty of mana AND lane survivability so you can outlast laning phase and get to where mages really shine: the teamfight.

10 Comments

Voluug136 votes

Tips for laning against AP champions.

Buy item 3155 .

Laugh at them trying to kill you with burst, kill them back.

Sasogwa3 votes

item 3108 + item 3114 is 20% cdr and not 10%

Edit: already corrected now, newcomers forget this comment ^^

Lao Fu the Tiger4 votes

Ah yes, thanks for pointing that out!

Darkslayer853 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Yummy advice, but here come the trolls and noobs. [zombie-nunu-tears]

Casri3 votes

Don't forget item 3027 as anti-burst. Almost all mages can use RoA and it's 103.33% gold efficient even before being stacked. CDR can be acquired via runes and CDR boots or you can pick up a morello/grail later. It's a little rougher for those who prioritize mana regen, like: LuxZiggsKarmaVelkozOriannaSyndra but it's definitely doable and the build scales very well.

500g start item 1056item 2009item 2009 --> 1800g item 3010item 1029item 1029 --> 3300g item 3191item 3027item 3158 --> 2300gitem 3157 --> (optional item 3165item 3174)

Catalyst regen will get you through the lane safely. The downsides are: you'll be lacking in damage until you finish your Armguard/RoA and the ramp-up time is longer than Morello --> Armguard. RoA build is great if your goal is to just survive lane and farm up, and the damage + durability once you have RoA, Hourglass and CDR boots is very nice.

Moulin Rouge1 votes

This same argument about the two dorans rings and seekers is brought out and it is brought back down by our betters who allocate actual experience and logic into their arguments on why the "just farm up for your expensive zhonyas and mana regem item and let the AD assassin roam and wreak havok before you can be effective" argument is pure bullshit.

Anyway, I am on a cell phone so I cannot link said threads to you.

Spoofghoul1 votes

I sometimes build item 3110 as my mana item i can get some regen from runes and masteries if i need too

The meditate mastery is pretty solid for manaregen, but it scales with missing mana its like you have the manafont from athenes. But in order to really make it effective you can buy extra mana if you have 1000 mana and get frozen hearth the meditate mastery becomes 40% stronger.

Its also good with item 3027

but i often like to get item 3110 for the armor mana and cdr and item 3116 for the extra health and utility

this gives 100 ap you can then still get item 3089 item 3135 and whatever you feel like for your 6th item.

Lately i have been getting strenght of ages aswell with perseverance it actually gives good protection vs burst and decent sustain and is easy to stack up.

Really seems to take the wind out of most of these AD mids with the comstant slows the big chunk of armor attackspeed slows the large healthpool to survive burst and the health sustain so they have trouble to poke ypu low enough to allin. And it does fix your mana problems & cdr problems.

Works well for me on champions like Brand AurelionSol Lissandra as they do have decent dps and rely a little less on raw ap for one shots which you can still accomplish if they dont have enough mr

5050BS1 votes

So looked up the best win % for items, Runes,Masteries for Zyra mid The results were really interesting.

15% scaling CDR Rules, Scarling HP, AP Marks, Movement % Quints

Items is Start item 1056 item 2003 x2 If winning lane go item 3165 >item 3151 >item 3116 If losing lane go Extra item 1056 > item 3165 >item 3151 >item 3116

At lvl 10ish with item 3165 you are at 32% CDR and can combo often I some times get the extra item 1056 any way for the extra mane regen so I can just combo all the time (I have the mana regen mastery)

After running this I found my team wins most matches that we dont have a troll/feeder in.

But what this points out is that as a Mage what matters is being able to spam spells and regen mana. The damage is not an issue because I can spam a lower damage spell.

So ether I could go AP and cast 3 Q's in 30s OR I can go CDR and mana regen and cast 5 Q's at lower damage

SouL1ess1 votes

The problem is what can the enemy AD mid spend on with 2000g and how hard will it fuck someone over

Sneakyy XD1 votes

Rings provide no additional survivability against physical damage over magical damage.

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