Nasus' buff didn't improve him much, if at all

The Cane Master·Aug 18, 2017·7 votes·1,891 views

Champion.gg - Nasus Top Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

In the given link, you can see that doggo's win ratio at 7.14 patch was 48.04%. In 7.15 he gets buffed, his win ratio increases to 49.06% due to spiked pick rate. Now it's 7.16 has been for quite some time, and his win ratio dropped back to 48.21%. It's obvious that the buff was much needed, however it actually shows that the changes didn't make him any more viable. Now many people still ban and fear him (for no reason) while he's still the same outdated champion with no reworks so far (released way back in 2009). To prove all doubters, take a look at DIG Ssumday a few weeks ago when he tried playing it, he went 0/3 while being beyond useless.

60 Comments

Shuyin178Aug 18, 20177 votes

Nasus is one of those champions that is cancerous in design, but nobody mentions that, it just stays in the back of your head.

When Nasus is in the meta, there is no other top laner that can stop him. He'll farm his Q, and when he hits 6 he steamrolls you and your tower.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Nasus is one of those champions that is cancerous in design, but nobody mentions that, it just stays in the back of your head.

I agree. He was released in 2009, which was btw 8 years ago, meaning that he's really outdated. Since design is too simplistic, he needs to get a Gameplay Update (essentially a rework in LoL slang). But Riot says: Naw dog, let's rework Ryze for the 5th time in 3 years.

When Nasus is in the meta, there is no other top laner that can stop him. He'll farm his Q, and when he hits 6 he steamrolls you and your tower.

The last time Nasus was meta was late season 3, that was 4 years ago. Not to mention that ever since not only has he been out of meta, he never even came close, Riot only decided to buff him after 4 seasons of being a complete shit. And wow, have they buffed him:

In the given link, you can see that doggo's win ratio at 7.14 patch was 48.04%. In 7.15 he gets buffed, his win ratio increases to 49.06% due to spiked pick rate. Now 7.16 has been for quite some time, and his win ratio dropped back to 48.21%.

Leaf on BushAug 18, 20174 votes

Nasus still has the same weaknesses. Being able to Q faster doesn't matter at all when you can't Q at all. Having tons of damage doesn't matter when you just get outplayed hard by CC and mobility.

The only big advantage he got is being able to win his lane earlier vs bad players that don't respect the cane. I mean this is certainly an improvement and you shouldn't deny that... but is it enough?

So bronze players will obviously QQ a lot and ask for nerfs, because "wtf op and no counterplay", but the higher you go the less of an issue Nasus will be.

Need Gold 4 TentAug 19, 20171 votes

Which is against his fantasy of farming up to become a monster lategame when he does fall off. His lategame no longer justifies his shitty early game, but that also cannot be buffed on account of his midgame where he can literally 3v1 unfed.

NLGG3R BEATERAug 18, 20172 votes

The buffs made it that he can play ultra safe till 6 then free farm as 90% of top laners (ESPECIALLY tanks) won't be able to bully him as much once he reaches 6 and gets sheen, if you try and get cocky against a post 6 Nasus he's gonna press R and literally rape the shit outta you. But then again he's still vulnerable to junglers that can cc/kite him to death and more importantly tanks who can't kill him will just get their overloaded supp items and peel Nasus out of existence while shielding their carries.

Nasus buffs made him more of a low elo stomper than he already was but still lacking in high elo unless you have immense amount of game knowledge to make up for his shitty teamplay potential.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20172 votes

but still lacking in high elo unless you have immense amount of game knowledge to make up for his shitty teamplay potential.

I think that DIG Ssumday, who is the longest LoL Korean pro (alongside Madlife), has the needed immense amount of game knowledge. Then again:

To prove all doubters, take a look at DIG Ssumday a few weeks ago when he tried playing it, he went 0/3 while being beyond useless.

JorenciceAug 18, 20173 votes

Lol. It was 1 game dude. Thats not enough data.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Lol. It was 1 game dude. Thats not enough data.

We are never going to see him played again, that one game was a fluke that only showed the true (lack of) power of Nasus . Also Solo queue data measures millions of games, and that data says that his win ratio in plat+ changed only by 0.17%:

In the given link, you can see that doggo's win ratio at 7.14 patch was 48.04%. In 7.15 he gets buffed, his win ratio increases to 49.06% due to spiked pick rate. Now it's 7.16 has been for quite some time, and his win ratio dropped back to 48.21%.

InfernapeAug 18, 20173 votes

Nasus' kit just doesn't work in pro play. It's too exploitable. You stop him from stacking and becoming a monster, which pros can easily do.

RalanrAug 18, 20172 votes

Maybe Nasus's design just doesn't transition well into high level play?

PennsAug 18, 20171 votes

thats what they said about cho gath lul

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

thats what they said about cho gath lul

Cho Gath got buffed like 6 times in a row to make him a viable champion: E buff, R buff, item 3800 , item 3193 , item 3001 changes etc.

RalanrAug 18, 20173 votes

And Cho'gath is only seeing play because of a really bullshit interaction.

I can't say I'd want the same for Nasus.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

And Cho'gath is only seeing play because of a really bullshit interaction.

That interaction is getting nerfed next patch. Nevertheless, he's still going to be the best Juggernaut even after that nerf. Also:

Cho Gath got buffed like 6 times in a row to make him a viable champion: E buff, R buff, , , changes etc.

You also said:

I can't say I'd want the same for Nasus.

While doing 1500+ true damage late game on a point-and-click ability doesn't seem fair, no one said that damage is the only way to buff a champion. In this case Nasus got his dps increased, he suffers from lack of mobility and utility which makes him the most kitable champion in the game.

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

I never said to buff Nasus's damage. I just meant that I don't want to see Nasus become viable only through a BS mechanic.

Like if they turned his wither into old Dazzle.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I never said to buff Nasus's damage. I just meant that I don't want to see Nasus become viable only through a BS mechanic.

Like if they turned his wither into old Dazzle.

While I agree with you, all Juggernauts are heavily auto attack based, meaning that they have no impactful skillshot (healthy mechanics). The only exception is Chogath , yet his ulti contradicts the healthy design he has (getting nerfed in the next patch).

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

All juggernauts are heavily auto attack based?

Morde, Garen, Illaoi, heck even Darius aren't heavy AA based. They're more ability based. Darius's only reason to AA is to stack his passive, which his Q helps with and only to make his ult do more. Illaoi only has her W as AA based.

And while I support the idea of giving juggernauts some skill shots, they are supposed to have difficulty acting outside their threat radius. So it might make them worse to deal with.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

All juggernauts are heavily auto attack based?

Morde, Garen, Illaoi, heck even Darius aren't heavy AA based. They're more ability based. Darius's only reason to AA is to stack his passive, which his Q helps with and only to make his ult do more. Illaoi only has her W as AA based.

And while I support the idea of giving juggernauts some skill shots, they are supposed to have difficulty acting outside their threat radius. So it might make them worse to deal with.

Mordekaiser is indeed auto attack based, Garen 's Q is an empowered AA, Darius 's passive and ult damage rely on him auto attacking 6+ times, even Illaoi 's W gets on 2 CD when ultied.

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

Morde is more ability based even with his Q. Garen seems more focused on his E for damage than his Q.

5 times actually on Darius last I checked, and his Q can stack it.

That's also only when Illaoi is ulting and it gives a short dash. Not to mention that these are things locked behind abilities, making them more ability reliant than AA reliant.

That's like saying every melee champion is AA heavy.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Maybe Nasus's design just doesn't transition well into high level play?

Maybe his design is 8 years old and in need of a rework (which he hasn't seen a single time so far)? Better rework Ryze 5 times in 3 years.

RalanrAug 18, 20172 votes

Honestly they probably don't rework him because they feel they'll need to remove his stacking mechanic which is his core identity.

Big LincolnAug 18, 20173 votes

there would never be a need to remove his stacking mechanic

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Honestly they probably don't rework him because they feel they'll need to remove his stacking mechanic which is his core identity.

Why do you even think so? Veigar and Sion got reworked and preserved the stacking mechanic? He just more impactful passive, E and R. For that to happen he needs to get a Gameplay Update, for which he is a long overdue (8 years old).

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

Veigar remains squishy and Sion's health stacking tends to fall off late (especially when the enemy adc is fully built).

My problem with Nasus is that he's at such an extreme of a juggernaut. He makes any fight where you can't kite him pretty much impossible to fight once he gets enough stacks and maxes his slow. You can't really kill him 1v1, so you have to force a few people to fight and kite him. Hence why he starts sucking in higher elo because people know how to do this.

Honestly I get that the stacking is his thing, sometimes I just have trouble seeing it be fair with how he builds. Yes I know that juggernauts are supposed to build tanky, but I can play around Darius's Q or etc.

Nasus's point and click slow I think needs some unreliability if they want to put more power into his kit.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Veigar remains squishy and Sion's health stacking tends to fall off late (especially when the enemy adc is fully built).

Veigar has a healthy design, and while being squishy, he deals much more damage than any other mage if played correctly.

My problem with Nasus is that he's at such an extreme of a juggernaut. He makes any fight where you can't kite him pretty much impossible to fight once he gets enough stacks and maxes his slow. You can't really kill him 1v1, so you have to force a few people to fight and kite him. Hence why he starts sucking in higher elo because people know how to do this.

Honestly I get that the stacking is his thing, sometimes I just have trouble seeing it be fair with how he builds. Yes I know that juggernauts are supposed to build tanky, but I can play around Darius's Q or etc.

Nasus's point and click slow I think needs some unreliability if they want to put more power into his kit.

Nasus needs a Gameplay Update, that is a rework in LoL slang. He is 8 years old and hasn't seen any major changes prior to 7.15, which only increased his win ratio by 0.17% (48.04->48.21). Talking about champion diversity, better rework Ryze for the 5th time in 3 years <- Riot's logic?

RalanrAug 18, 20172 votes

I know the slang. The only reason Ryze gets it more is because when Ryze is a problem he's much more noticeable in a bad way for proplay (imo). Nasus can be ignored because he's not warping the meta, he just can't function in them.

Basically Ryze starts fires for attention while Nasus holds a cardboard sign.

CelegaSAug 18, 20172 votes

I want a movespeed steal on his W

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I want a movespeed steal on his W

I want applying Grounded on his W. Nasus is a Shuriman champion, sand is known to be an impairment when it comes to dashing through it, so it makes a perfect fit.

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

It already slows for like 99% at rank 5. Giving it grounding is just telling the person they don't get to play when fighting you.

The Cane MasterAug 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

It already slows for like 99% at rank 5. Giving it grounding is just telling the person they don't get to play when fighting you.

Nasus levels W the last i.e. he reaches rank 5 W at level 18 only. And it's a scaling slow, meaning it slows for 99% for the 1 last second. Nevertheless, most games are decided in mid-game, or first Baron taken, which is way sooner than anyone can reach level 18.

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

Why do you guys max wither last anyway? Isn't large waveclear from spirit fire detrimental for gaining stacks?

The Cane MasterAug 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why do you guys max wither last anyway? Isn't large waveclear from spirit fire detrimental for gaining stacks?

You've answered your own question.

RalanrAug 19, 20171 votes

So...you don't care about stacking after mid game?

The Cane MasterAug 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So...you don't care about stacking after mid game?

I care about winning, stacks are useless if you lose the game.

LyingOnLineAug 19, 20171 votes

If Nasus didn't have E for waveclear, he'd never be able to get minion waves close to turrets to push them in the first place.

RalanrAug 19, 20171 votes

Can't he do that with IBG and sunfire though?

LyingOnLineAug 19, 20172 votes

IBG is shit and Nasus doesn't build sunfire.

RalanrAug 19, 20171 votes

Why not?

LyingOnLineAug 19, 20172 votes

First things first, because sunfire is bad right now.

Second things second, because Nasus doesn't stick around on people locking them down and dealing damage passively, or sitting inside the wave trading.

The Cane MasterAug 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why not?

Also item 3025 got dmg nerfed and as it deals AOE dmg it screws up Nasus stacking, as it doesn't work for multiple units at once.

Need Gold 4 TentAug 19, 20171 votes

I max it second, but I'm an early days Nasus player so the meta might have changed. It's not about the waveclear being detrimental, it's more that having a high level W is more helpful for the TP fights that you will inevitably be joining unless you are afk farming top which will inevitably lose you the game at some point too.

That being said, that time bot lane/objective TPs were very impactful, and the AS slow was still the full, unnerfed version of it. Putting that on an ADC pretty much put the ADC out of commission for the entire fight, on top of the fact that it has nearly no effective cooldown once you hit 40% CDR. It might not be worth it now after the nerf to it, but I still max it second as it still allows me to gap close better.

Leaf on BushAug 18, 20173 votes

Also grounding ^^

SanKakUAug 18, 20172 votes

His E was nerfed unless he's against tanks...so the R+Q combo buff is offset by that...most people simply refuse to buy armor. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

RandomoniumAug 18, 20172 votes

If you're going to cite statistics at least look at ALL the relevant statistics. Sure his overall win rate is sub 50% but if you look at his win rate by games played and player experience distribution it's very obvious that the only reason why he has a sub 50% win rate is because a lot of inexperienced people are playing him in ranked. People who are inexperienced are SUPPOSED to have a sub 50% win rate, regardless of the champion. Nasus is not in a bad state, there are just a lot of inexperienced people playing him which is driving his overall win rate down.

The Cane MasterAug 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If you're going to cite statistics at least look at ALL the relevant statistics. Sure his overall win rate is sub 50% but if you look at his win rate by games played and player experience distribution it's very obvious that the only reason why he has a sub 50% win rate is because a lot of inexperienced people are playing him in ranked. People who are inexperienced are SUPPOSED to have a sub 50% win rate, regardless of the champion. Nasus is not in a bad state, there are just a lot of inexperienced people playing him which is driving his overall win rate down.

I bet you his win rate is going to remain at 48% regardless of anything else. Cya in a few patches.

RandomoniumAug 19, 20171 votes

Yeah, because dumb people will continue to play him in ranked even when they don't know how to play him. The fact of the matter is that people who have experience with him have WELL above a 50% win rate with him and that is a far better judge of a champion's balance than someone who doesn't know how to play the champion. If you're going to cite statistics at least try to understand what those statistics mean. You're coming off as a very ignorant person who doesn't understand statistics and isn't willing to listen to well-reasoned counter arguments.

The Cane MasterAug 19, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, because dumb people will continue to play him in ranked even when they don't know how to play him. The fact of the matter is that people who have experience with him have WELL above a 50% win rate with him and that is a far better judge of a champion's balance than someone who doesn't know how to play the champion. If you're going to cite statistics at least try to understand what those statistics mean. You're coming off as a very ignorant person who doesn't understand statistics and isn't willing to listen to well-reasoned counter arguments.

I reached diamond in S6 with Nasus well before any of QoL changes (buffs he received afterwards). Having nearly 900k mastery wtih him while 42% win ratio this season.

RandomoniumAug 19, 20171 votes

And what's your point? There's plenty of people who have great win rates with him. If anything that says more about you than the champion.

https://na.op.gg/ranking/champions/name=nasus

Stop making excuses. You don't see me blaming champions for my inability to climb. You don't see me cherry picking statistics to try and make myself feel better. If someone came on these forums in bronze and whined about not being able to climb with their favorite champion what would you tell them? You'd tell them to stop whining, adapt to the meta, and learn how to play their champion better.

King of DemonsAug 19, 20171 votes

He is one of the strongest solo queue top laners right now Idk what you're talking about

The Cane MasterAug 19, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=suOAaTaK,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-08-19T02:22:16.980+0000)

He is one of the strongest solo queue top laners right now Idk what you're talking about

In the given link, you can see that doggo's win ratio at 7.14 patch was 48.04%. In 7.15 he gets buffed, his win ratio increases to 49.06% due to spiked pick rate. Now it's 7.16 has been for quite some time, and his win ratio dropped back to 48.21%.