Why does Yasuo's ultimate freely place him out of tower range?

Eeyore·Mar 15, 2017·59 votes·6,717 views

Even if you were having a melee-range fight next to each other while grinding up against the stone?

91 Comments

VasilisGreenMar 15, 20177 votes

it only happens if your target is close to the outer limit of their turret's range. Yasuo can catch in his ult as many people as possible as long as their up to 400ish units away from him. So, it means that the damage has an "aoe" radius of 400ish units, which consequently means that if you are 400 units or less away from the outer rim of the turret's range, Yasuo won't have to be in turret range in order to ult you. I am not entirely sure how wide the area of effect is but i think it's about 400-425 at rank 3. The area that suspends people around increases with rank, which means at lvl6 you need to be a LOT closer to the outer rim of your turret's range in order for yasuo to ult you outside of it. So, if you worry about being ulted in your turret, hug it and he will have to be in it in order to ult you.

EDIT: In the wikki it states that the aoe range increases by ult rank but in game it doesn't. It's always the same radius as his melee Q range. But in the case of the turret the aoe range that allows him to be outside of the turret range is a bit shorter than his melee Q range. So, out in the open, the aoe radius is his melee Q range which is 425 units and in a turret it's a bit less. Also, in every test in an open area, it seems that he suspends people based on how far they are from him but in the turret's case it seems to be based on how far others are from the main target.

EeyoreMar 15, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Unseen Scrub,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smJKlr2k,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-15T13:16:22.359+0000)

it only happens if your target is close to the outer limit of their turret's range.

No it doesn't. I created this thread in a burst of anger after his ultimate carried him from his autoattack range of the turret right out of the turret's range - and I was juking him around the turret in the hopes he'd die before I'd die, but was knocked up to an EQ combo (i.e. we were both grinding the turret). In fact, it carried him so far behind my inner turret (where we were fighting) that he was almost placed in inhibitor turret range. He survived. He survived walking under turret and charging his Q with turret aggro just because his ultimate placed him in a position to freely escape. I would honestly rather they just made his shield trigger on turrets.

We won the game but I'm getting sick and tired of him getting free tower dives. If he wants to tower dive - he should pay the same price every other champion does. His ultimate should place him near his target regardless of where his target is. Jeez, it almost looks like a bug - like when Nocturne dashes on a target that's next to a wall and gets placed on a different side of the wall.

VasilisGreenMar 15, 20174 votes

It's all relative to where YOU ARE, not where he is. If YOU are close to the edge of your turret's range, even if his on the exact opposite side, he'll still ult you and get OUT of it. Just go in to a practice tool game and see for yourself.

EeyoreMar 15, 20173 votes

Did you even read what I said? I was right next to the turret, too. I was walking circles around the structure to try and fuck with his pathfinding. His E-timer must've worn out just at the right time and he EQs me and then freely flies an Ezreal's Q range away from me and the turret. He should have died. Any other tower diver would have died, even if it was mutual. He was greedy and missed too many of his spells and spent too long dancing with me around the turret. But then his targeted-dash-that-killed-me also freely placed him out of range. By all means place him on the side of me that's closest to the edge of the tower's range, but it shouldn't place him out of turret range regardless of where I am. I wasn't even in the tremor-circle SFX radius when he impacted the ground, that's how far away he was. If I hadn't died outright to the ultimate's damage - he wasn't in range to follow-up Q me.

AmazoXMar 16, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Empty Lord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smJKlr2k,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-15T16:14:03.379+0000)

I wasn't even in the tremor-circle SFX radius when he impacted the ground, that's how far away he was. If I hadn't died outright to the ultimate's damage - he wasn't in range to follow-up Q me.

Video Proof or you are a liar liar pants on fire.

GULAG 4 UMar 15, 20176 votes

Because of his ults long animation. He would tank 2 tower shots during it. It also only does so if the champion is only slightly inside tower range anyways.

PhDs NutsMar 15, 201716 votes

{quoted}

Because of his ults long animation. He would tank 2 tower shots during it.

Then maybe he shouldn't use it under turret when he already has turret aggro. That's literally bronze. Lots of champions have long animations that they shouldn't use under turret when they have aggro already.

If he doesn't already have tower aggro, he shouldn't take aggro until after the animation is finished (when he deals damage) anyway. There's no reason to prevent him from taking a turret shot when he "dives" under turret.

GULAG 4 UMar 15, 20175 votes

It only does so if your are only barely inside, or when you qing your target wouldn't track aggro. Hisbpassive doesn't block tower shots neither.

LexyyMar 15, 20179 votes

And why is that bad exactly?

If he wants to use it under a turret he should tank the turret like any other champion.

Spicy RiceMar 16, 20171 votes

Tell me how many ults teleport you to your enemy's position without giving you a way out?

And let's exclude urgot as he's getting reworked very soon

RalanrMar 16, 20173 votes

Shen and Galio.

Edit: this was made before he edited it to enemy position.

Spicy RiceMar 16, 20171 votes

Fixed the earlier post to make more sense in the conversation

King of MongooseMar 15, 20175 votes

because it's a good 2 second channel animation and having to take 3 hits of a tower at lvl 6 just for your ult is fucking stupid

please THINK about the answers to your questions before you post them. Anyone who is competent at the game would know the answer.

don't whine on boards just because you got shat on by a yasuo a game before.

EeyoreMar 15, 201710 votes

Maybe he shouldn't activate his ultimate if he already has tower aggro? It doesn't generate aggro by itself until he deals damage - so he could dash in "safely" if he engages from out of turret range/plays well (like Fizz or Ekko). Every other champion has to take into account turret aggro when they tower dive, including other champions with similar casting/channel times (e.g. Renekton's W has a 1+ second animation).

I did think about answers to my question and none of them fit, or were acceptable for game health. Why does Yasuo's ultimate give him free protection from bad choices when no other champion has that luxury? Every other champion has to choose to tower dive.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 15, 20172 votes

To be fair Yasuo is melee. Of the champions that go mid, how many actually turret DIVE?

EeyoreMar 15, 20175 votes

Almost all the melee ones?

And any ranged one who is playing against a melee one, since the melee ones always seem to get away on 5% health and people are naturally greedy.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 15, 20172 votes

Yes but how many are those. I can think of only Zed Yasuo and Talon.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 15, 20173 votes

Ekko, Fizz, Kat, Akali, Diana, and Kassadin as well. There are more than you think.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 15, 20173 votes

Ekko has an ult to get him out of it as does Kassadin, Fizz has an ult from range he can use and an E to reset tower aggro. Kat can shunpo, etc. They have ways to tower dive safely is my point. So it shouldn't be weird that Yasuo does as well. Now personally I don't think he needs it with everything else he has... but I just hate jumping on the hate train. I don't see all the data or work at Riot, honestly maybe he does need it no matter how much I despise him.

Hell even in my example Zed can jump back to his shadow and Talon can hop over a wall. All of them can do it safely.

AmazoXMar 16, 20172 votes

Revan, It's a waste of time telling trolls simple & rather obvious things that they already know but will act dumb to get you to explain it to them, Just don't bother with trolls, They thrive off this sh**

YoungSirJ0eyMar 16, 20172 votes

You asked for examples of melee champs who go mid. I gave them to you.

Also, Yasuo has infinite dashes, so long as enemies are around. He should have no problem escaping a dive normally.

Also also, Fizz and Kass don't have safe dives. Fizz won't have his ult if he's diving someone, because he has 0 harass and needs his ult to all-in, and will need to use his E to engage the dive or else tank multiple tower shots, and thus doesn't have a reliable escape. Same with Kass and his ult, which is on a 6-second cooldown at rank one. Actually, the two you didn't mention are better at diving with their multiple dashes.

And I don't like jumping on the hate train either, because plenty of stuff makes Yasuo not broken, like his ult being QSS-able, his small as fuck health pool, and the way he autopushes, I just think the game shouldn't actively attempt to give him free dives.

AlienPrimateMar 15, 20173 votes

Akali Chogath Diana Ekko Fizz Galio Kassadin Katarina Talon Yasuo Zed

I think that's all of the melee middle laners. Note that they all dive.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 15, 20172 votes

Yasuo isn't the only one with a safe way to tower dive thoooooo. Except Cho. But he's a tanky mofo who doesn't need it

DynikusMar 15, 20174 votes

wut

ThePikolMar 15, 201728 votes

He refers to this: "Last Breath (R) will attempt to position Yasuo outside the range of a nearby enemy turret if he initiates the ability on an enemy standing close to one." I also think it should be removed

abca98Mar 15, 20176 votes

Ah, so that's why he gets free dives.

ThePikolMar 15, 201720 votes

There is a lot of free stuff packed into Yasuo. This one, free shield for moving, free crit, free spells etc. But this particular one makes Yaso even more breindead champ, he doesn't even have to think about tower aggro if the game itself protects him from it.

yesnobananaMar 15, 20177 votes

Sorry for opening this but: Yasuo isnt braindead,actually,no champs are braindead

ThePikolMar 15, 201716 votes

Sorry, but I lack a world for a champ that is manaless, really low cooldowns, revarded for walking, double crit chance, almost infinite dashes, a nonultimate spell that nulify 70% of all champs abilities and aa AND the game protects you when you make a mistake (attack under turret). Please enlighten me how should I refer to this kind of champions.

RalanrMar 15, 20178 votes

As someone where you're clearly only looking at the positives of his kit.

ThePikolMar 15, 20177 votes

Lets see nagtives then: -less dmg from crits? Maybe but you crit with every aa and Q with only 2 items Thats about it. If there are more please tell me.

RalanrMar 15, 20176 votes

Relatively squishy, mobility locked to targets, no MR per level, not intended to work as a bruiser and gets directly or indirectly nerfed whenever that happens.

I'm not saying Yasuo doesn't have dumb shit in his kit (like his ult interaction with towers) but he does have weaknesses and he isn't brain dead easy.

Xx420n0sc0p3sxXMar 15, 201713 votes

Lets look at urgot:

Armor Shred Shield Perma slow Point and click damage reduction and basically insta kill for opponent with your team around Aoe Very high damage poke if he lands one skillshot ranged

I hate when people list everything a champ has. Urgot is obviously awful, but it is easy to look at a champion and spam what they have. Yasuo is in a fairly balanced state right now (Hes frustrating, I know, but he isnt overpowered). He is generally agreed to be one of the harder champs in the game too, not 'braindead'. Yasuo is squishy if he wants to deal damage. Tank yas is alright, but doesnt 3 shot people like the boards seems to think it does. Hes very weak to lane bullies if you arent an idoit

If he was as crazy overpowered as everyone said he was his winrated on people with 200+ games in plat would be higher than 53%. Just because a champion is mobile and does damage doesnt make then op. I hate fighting Yas as well, but he isnt overpowered. Stop being ignorant and try the champ out before you spout circlejerk nonsense.

WinTheWarOnPantsMar 15, 20177 votes

Lets look at urgot:

you literally couldn't have picked a worse champion to make this point....

He is generally agreed to be one of the harder champs in the game too

only early. That's one of my biggest gripes about yas. and people who say "he's hard so it's ok that he's aids". Why make a difficult champ that out-scales his difficulty?! I absolutely suck ass with yas, but even i can absolutely rek shit once i get item 3031 item 3046 . every other "difficult" champ falls off late. Yasuo rewards skill by becoming a mid game monster with early kills, but he also rewards playing safe with his insane late game scaling...

If he was as crazy overpowered as everyone said he was his winrated on people with 200+ games in plat would be higher than 53%.

Most people don't say he's overpowered, they say he's broken. Because he is. It's a common theme among certainlyT's champs Darius Thresh Zyra Kalista Mordekaiser . Warwick is the first thing that certainlyT was involved in that isn't complete aids. Also, IMO the only reason yas winrate is as low as it is, is because his player base is even more cancer than he is(not joking either... i think this is a legit reason).

RalanrMar 15, 20173 votes

His choice wasn't bad because the point was that anyone can look overpowered when you only acknowledge the positives.

WinTheWarOnPantsMar 15, 20176 votes

It's not about "overpowered" it's about being "broken". Overpowered is ever changing and has nothing to do with their actually kit. Any champ can be overpowered regarless of how weak their actually kit is by buffing their numbers through the roof and visa versa Urgot . Urgot is "cirtified" broken, and he's the last one left of the old broken kits that had to be gutted. Sion Yorick Galio Poppy . That's why i said he's "literally the worst champion he could have used", because urgot is arguably the most broken champ in the game now.

Auz the RipperMar 16, 20171 votes

Urgot is one of the most oppressive champions in this game, kit wise

It's why he's left to rot in a gutter

ThePikolMar 16, 20171 votes

I did try him when he was free. I felt bad for my opponents, Yas is so unfair to play against. Like I know I should die but a random shield saved me. Or when someone throw a skillshot at me, visually it hitted me, but I somehow managed to block it with windwall. I didn't even have to point it right way. No matter how bad I played in early after IE and PD I started to dominate. "So why don't you play him? Freelo, right?". No, I still don't like him and won't play a champ I dont enjoy

King of MongooseMar 15, 20176 votes

bronze 2 not suprised you are complaining about yasuo when you main velkoz who is definitely a more braindead champ

-easy waveclear -long distance poke -insane true damage that scales with ap -tons of aoe -instnat attack animation/no attack projectile (really good against yasuo wall) -low mana costs

negatives: -no immediate escape or mobility but doesn't need one because if someone jumps on you you can just mash your keyboard like an ape and still chunk them and knock them back with e

stop talking

TakazakiMar 16, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=King of Mongoose,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=smJKlr2k,comment-id=000000000000000000000001000000000002,timestamp=2017-03-15T15:52:07.592+0000)

bronze 2 not suprised you are complaining about yasuo when you main velkoz who is definitely a more braindead champ

-easy waveclear -long distance poke -insane true damage that scales with ap -tons of aoe -instnat attack animation/no attack projectile (really good against yasuo wall) -low mana costs

negatives: -no immediate escape or mobility but doesn't need one because if someone jumps on you you can just mash your keyboard like an ape and still chunk them and knock them back with e

stop talking

as a yasuo main, i would like to inform you that we can block everything but vels R

that said, fuck mages

RalanrMar 16, 20171 votes

Can't block Lux ult.

Spicy RiceMar 16, 20171 votes

Don't forget his autos.

Good vel players hurt simply because of all the auto harass

Heckin SupportMar 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

As someone where you're clearly only looking at the positives of his kit.

What are the literal negative of playing Yasuo compared to anyone else? He doesn't really have much of a weakness.

RalanrMar 15, 20171 votes

Beyond being rather squishy for a melee champion.

PB4UAMEMar 16, 20172 votes

TBF, he gets a free up to 510 damage shield that also resets on ult, and can reset again by dashing and moving around mid fight giving you 1,020-1,530 extra hp in a lategame teamfight, increased by 1% per resist, with just base stats that's 1,861 - 2,792 increased pEHP and 1,326 - 1,989 increased mEHP. He also gets windwall, and the safety provided by mobility + CC.

Also, he gets twice the crit he pays for thus is able to spend less on crit, and have more gold left over for other items offering better survivability than other champions would be able to purchase while also receiving similar offensive strength.

I dunno, I just find calling Yasuo "rather squishy for a melee cahmpion" only applies if you aren't looking at defense and mitigation wholistically, and only look at resist values, or base hp (which isn't even that low other than no scaling mr).

RalanrMar 16, 20171 votes

I could be wrong but the numbers on his shield are meaningless as it breaks to pretty much anything in one hit. The safety provided by his mobility is also what balances him as a squishy champion since mobility is (imo) the opposite of durability to an extent.

As for the crit, well that's kind of the point. He's allowed to build like an adc but with a bit more room for survivability because he is melee.

His double crit chance also hinders him offensively to some degree. Yasuo can reach 100% crit with two items, but one of those items has to be IE so he can bypass his crit damage reduction. So his second item is the one where he relies on the secondary effect.

He has to choose between shiv or PD (the difficulty of the choice varies though). Waveclear or better single target duel potential? This choice is even worse if he has crit Runes, because he's basically buying more crit than he needs.

If you removed the double crit, you'd actually have to buff his base stats to compensate for the amount of damage items he needs to buy.

SpecterVonBarenMar 16, 20172 votes

Oh if only people knew what he had in his release kit. So much has been stripped out of his kit at this point.

DunkinNoobsMar 15, 20172 votes

I mean, it's probably good that he can actually use his ult near towers. You know, like every other champ?

EeyoreMar 15, 20173 votes

But if he's under turret and his target is under turret, why does his ultimate move him out of range for free? Any other targeted dash would move the champion to the target, not move them "generously near the target, but at a safe distance from the consequences".

DunkinNoobsMar 15, 20171 votes

It actually doesn't move him out of range. It just places him in a position so that he's still in range of the enemy champ, just not under tower. Yasuo's ult can place him anywhere around the champion, but it places him on the side opposite from him by default, unless he ults an enemy under tower in which case it will place him outside of tower range if this is possible. He could just as easily accomplish the same thing by using E-Q on you to go through you and then ulting, placing him on the opposite side of you and away from the tower.