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How to give Mordekaiser a dash...

Eeyore··145 votes·9,286 views

...while still being a lumbering, mace swinging terror.

https://media.giphy.com/media/XiQVlld1YfeVi/giphy.gif https://media.giphy.com/media/E20teisNtCc5q/giphy.gif

By making it as slow as walking and cannot go throw terrain. I mean does it really count as "mobility" if it doesn't change how fast he gets from A to B?

EDIT: Okay, so people seem to be mistaking this with a Broken Wings (multiple dashes) or Harsh Lesson (your attacks dash on your target) - but it's neither of those. It's closer to the following:

The fact the gifs only show one target being hit each time is unfortunate, each swipe deals area of effect damage in front of him. He also moves in a straight line...

https://media.giphy.com/media/rDT4EZmrZRiAU/giphy.gif

...and can be dodged by moving out of the way.

138 Comments

Malicious Metal92 votes

I love this idea. Not only does it give Mordekaiser the feel of his old AoE kit back but also gives him counterplay to his third Q hit. Not only this but it would look extremely awesome seeing Mordekaiser initiating the March of the Dead and just tear through the enemy team.

http://img.pandawhale.com/90151-Sauron-upvote-gif-imgur-lS85.gif

charcharmunro21 votes

Giving him CC-immunity to SOME degree would also be great for the "I don't give a fuck" factor. I dunno how much anybody here knows about fighting games, but Nemesis in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 has one Hyper Combo that's literally just him swinging and marching forward with full super armor.

HighH121 votes

Immunity to slows. It makes sense as I'd figure a big hulking suit of armor swinging a big mace to lead his team into battle wouldn't be stopped becauseShaco threw a knife at him

Troll for Trump2 votes

Which ability would it replace?

Also, ALL HoTS champs(almost) have really innovative abilities and kits. Shame that the game has fallen off hard though.

Eeyore7 votes

Well I was thinking to just make it his Mace of Spades.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Fair enough, maybe you should try adding scalings/CD etc. Because it would be really weird with a low CD. Also kinda seems extreme for a basic ability. Maybe something more like Leoric's Q instead of Siphon of Destruction?

Eeyore2 votes

The same cooldown as Sion's Decimating Strike would work, in my opinion, perhaps slightly higher. It's a core damage dealing ability - as well as being hyper telegraphed and dodgable. In fact, similar to Sion, it's one of those raid-boss abilities that is super easy to play around but requires you to to actually constantly play around it - if you forget about Mordekaiser or ignore him, you're gonna hurt!

Lord Boltrix5 votes

Tenacity is always something that has been discussed concerning Mordekaiser, as an answer to lacking crowd control and mobility, and I have brought up the idea of implementing tenacity into his Mace of Spades before. This would be the best way to give Mordekaiser more of that AoE aspect of his Q while making it possible to avoid it if you can move out of the way, promoting counter-play by knowing in which way Mordekaiser will swing his mace and being able to dodge it nicely.

And we all know having this would make Mordekaiser visually more impressive and dodging him would be much the same, promoting the LCSBigPlays.

The only thing I could add is maybe changing the third Q hit to be a more circular AoE, sort of like a crater impact all around the point where the mace lands, and it could use Mordekaiser's critical strike animation (using both hands to swing his mace down horizontally), which makes it easier to dodge the mace (basically as simple as keeping your distance overall from Mordekaiser by the third Q), but at the same time allows it to potentially affect more people if they don't steer clear of Mordekaiser.

terkmc1 votes

I have another idea from a while back that goes with the "ignore enemy team" Juggernaut idea

[W] Face the Pain Cost: 25/35/45/55/65 (+100% shielding) CD: 12 Range: 400

Mordekaiser raise his hand and bend metal into a metal shield for him. A barrier is created in the direction that Mordekaiser is facing, max health equal to (+120/130/140/150/160% shield consumed) for 4 seconds. The barrier intercept projectile and redirects all damage and cc aimed at Mordekaisesr that originated from in front of the shield to itself. While Face the Slayer is active, 50% of all Iron Man shield generation is instead redirected to the Barrier. After 1 second, Mordekaiser can reactivate it, or at the end of the duration, to explode the barrier, hurling metal shard outward, dealing 70/95/120/145/170 (+ 50% AP)(+60/70/80/90/100% barrier's remaining health) magic damage

A new W, and the clutch of him using his shield by giving him a literal metalic floating shield that's held up my magnetism. Mordekaiser convert all of his shield into a barrier, sacrificing general durability for great durability in one direction, giving him a huge shield toward whatever he's facing, immunity to cc from whatever he's facing, and aoe damage toward whatever he's facing. Notice a theme of whatever he's facing. The shield only stay in whatever direction he's facing, so its only useful for offense, to push Mordekaiser into the Juggernaut position, shielding up and marching toward the enemy, shrugging off retaliation and cc that tries to stop him, an unstoppable Juggernaut against whom the only appropriate response is to run away, while still keeping his weakness of being ganked to kingdom come. The aoe damage was also there to provide him with waveclear and scaling damage based on his health and damage (indirectly as his health boost his shield amount). The imagery of a classic knight with huge towering shield and a mace is also fitting, as well as the classic Magneto style overlord raising one hand and stopping all projectile from coming at him. Do note this isn't Braum's friendly protective shield. The width is only barely wider than Mordekaiser, as such he is shielding himself and is most likely isn't going to be protecting you anytime soon, unless you stand in a direct line behind him (quivering like a pathetic coward, of course).

SettDownShutUp1 votes

{quoted}

I have another idea from a while back that goes with the "ignore enemy team" Juggernaut idea

[W] Face the Pain Cost: 25/35/45/55/65 (+100% shielding) CD: 12 Range: 400

A new W, and the clutch of him using his shield by giving him a literal metalic floating shield that's held up my magnetism. Mordekaiser convert all of his shield into a barrier, sacrificing general durability for great durability in one direction, giving him a huge shield toward whatever he's facing, immunity to cc from whatever he's facing, and aoe damage toward whatever he's facing. Notice a theme of whatever he's facing. The shield only stay in whatever direction he's facing, so its only useful for offense, to push Mordekaiser into the Juggernaut position, shielding up and marching toward the enemy, shrugging off retaliation and cc that tries to stop him, an unstoppable Juggernaut against whom the only appropriate response is to run away, while still keeping his weakness of being ganked to kingdom come. The aoe damage was also there to provide him with waveclear and scaling damage based on his health and damage (indirectly as his health boost his shield amount). The imagery of a classic knight with huge towering shield and a mace is also fitting, as well as the classic Magneto style overlord raising one hand and stopping all projectile from coming at him. Do note this isn't Braum's friendly protective shield. The width is only barely wider than Mordekaiser, as such he is shielding himself and is most likely isn't going to be protecting you anytime soon, unless you stand in a direct line behind him (quivering like a pathetic coward, of course).

Too Powerful, I do like the idea of a Spike Shield though.

terkmc1 votes

I figured numbers are way overtuned but i was looking for conceptual feedback mostly

Goodnight Nunu36 votes

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.pic-upload.de%2Fimg%2F29933338%2Fmordesignal.jpg&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425

Swaid27 votes

Heroes of the Storm is not the best game to be taking ideas from usually; the game is horribly unbalance, with Xul running rampant with a 65% win rate and a lot of heroes at a horrid 45% win rate with others clearly being dominant. This idea isn't bad, but what Leoric is using there is his secondary Elite Skill (An Ultimate Ability), which sort of is like Mordekaiser's Ace of Spades since they both strike in three, but Leoric's ability is quite slow, hardly a dash unless they sped it up for Mordekaiser.

Eeyore42 votes

Bad balance doesn't really equate to bad ideas - you just need to follow Overwatch's patch notes to see that. Perfectly good ideas being ruined by bad balance - I mean whose fantasy of playing as a turret is "hit and run"?

The intent would be to keep the ability as slow as walking (heck it could scale with movespeed). The objective is to give Mordekaiser some immunity to kiting without making him mobile/giving him a gap closer.

(P.S. I made the gifs so I know it's Leoric's ultimate.)

Meep Man3 votes

Bad balance =/= bad ideas

Heroes of the Storm (IMO) has much better and more original hero ideas than League of Legends. For example, Cho'Gall is an extremely unique character that is fun to play as and against with clear weaknesses and advantages. Also, not to to dissapoint you, but League of Legends has about the same balance issue. There will be the occasional new release that is around 60% win rate and then a lot of characters at 45% win rate. Skarner, Sej, and all the like have been there and Xul, who is new, is also there. However, not many heroes have been there in the game's history. Plus, it's harder to complain about champion balance in HOTS when you can often just main any Hero and win majority of games. I main Murky, and got to a 69% win rate as him.

Elikain5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c2qKAuY5,comment-id=00020004,timestamp=2016-03-15T11:39:31.119+0000)

Heroes of the Storm (IMO) has much better and more original hero ideas than League of Legends

You do realize HotS literally port characters from other Blizzard games, making them as playable heroes? Apart from some heroes, who already had a kit because they were from DotA or Diablo.

That's not original. Their approach to the gameplay is original and unique - this is the right explanation.

Malicious Metal5 votes

A bit off topic though, may I ask where your name originated from?^^

Eeyore7 votes

http://pre15.deviantart.net/9a99/th/pre/i/2015/046/1/b/runescape_god___zaros_by_tinysecretdoor-d8i33ml.jpg

I've carried this name for years. Sentimental.

Malicious Metal3 votes

All hail Zaros! :D

I'm actually still playing RuneScape on/off due to it being quite relaxing from time to time, less intensive than League for sure^^

Dominick Destine3 votes

So basically Ekko

Maple Crusader24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c2qKAuY5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-14T18:52:21.514+0000)

So basically Ekko

Except Morde aggressively stomps into people with his swings while Ekko gets to dash and blink into people.

Zenithir2 votes

So...make morde into riven?

Eeyore19 votes

A very crude similarity.

Elikain2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Empty Lord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c2qKAuY5,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2016-03-14T21:09:48.394+0000)

A very crude similarity.

I have to respectfully say i agree and disagree at the same time. I respect this Morde's kit already however he lost something from his kit and wasn't properly compensated with this one. I'm of course talking about his nerfs where now, his Q doesn't feel like a 3 shot wonder anymore but an inconvenience that you lost half HP as a squishy and barely a third as a fighter and little more than a fourth as a tank. It just doesn't cut it. The tradeoffs he makes (by being bulky and slow with no CC and dashes) dictates that his base stats should be high and he can afford to take punishment without lighting up like a piece of paper.

Here's how trading works with Morde now:

  • Assassins (melee): trades are very short where you don't have the time to get all Qs off for a significant damage and you will most likely waste your ult with no kill, losing this niche he was reworked for

  • Assassins (range): you won't get any damage off, your shield won't protect you because you either don't have it stacked or can't stack if off a ranged champion

  • Marksmen: infinite kite. You take way more damage and can't get any back. Their itemization leads them the paths of BF line items, where you take more harass and your armor is not ensured for dents.

  • Fighters: you are supposed to be a juggernaught but you're way deep in their territory when it comes to stats. And they have more damage than you.

  • Tanks: Way tankier than you but less damage than you. They pack CC and can be useful in a teamfight. They still can take your punishment while their items do the additional DPS for them or block more damage.

The main problem here is that Riot is afraid to let Morde be really strong because on his release, he was way out of line. However, i think that the whole problem there was his bonus EXP to blame. Maybe a few numbers on his abilities were also high but dialing back his Q was the last straw for him. Not to mention that Trundle's ult heals more than Morde's, which (as a curse) doesn't really feel like one, except for a speech bubble above his head "avoid me for 10 seconds and you'll be fine".

I don't want a HotS clone as a new Morde but Riot could look into Leoric's design and see if that kind of gameplay is better suited for someone of Morde's very particular needs. Right now, because he's manaless, he has very few item options and item options that offer CC.

item 3116 is a must, item 3027 no, item 3143item 3102 just tank items, item 3152 not that good, item 3040 no, item 3800 tank item -mana, item 3100 full squish -mana... You get the point. His itemization is very picky and very specific. His matchups are either good for Q trades (but at a loss on waveclear) or bad for Q trades (and having to level E for waveclear and still have no decent trades with ranged champions). Currently, his roles are Top (most successful), MId (iffy), Jungle (quite easy for him but his kit is 0 for ganking and he's slow) and Bot (you eat damage and get zoned).

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

which charactrer is that? he looks cool

Chespin20132 votes

King Leoric boss from Diablo 3 very fun game if you love the kinds of game where you destroy wave after wave of bad guys while also getting some cool loot

Shia LeDunk2 votes

Leoric's my favorite warrior in HOTS, I think something close to Leoric's ulti would be amazing on Mordekaiser. +1

The Loveless2 votes

Leoric is boring, no don't make Morde like him.

LilxPaprika2 votes

except this plus rylais would be nasty. how well currently benefits from rylais would need to be looked into. I do like the idea of his kit not necessitating rylais to function however.

Eeyore1 votes

Well it's about time there was an AP Fighter who actually benefited from Rylai's... all the other ones have innately better CC. Except maybe Vladimir, if you're going to include him as an AP Fighter.

LilxPaprika1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Empty Lord,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c2qKAuY5,comment-id=003b0000,timestamp=2016-03-16T20:37:44.055+0000)

Well it's about time there was an AP Fighter who actually benefited from Rylai's... all the other ones have innately better CC. Except maybe Vladimir, if you're going to include him as an AP Fighter.

true except vlad can still be useful without rylais since he's a ranged champion and what he lacks in cc he makes up in sustain/sheer unkitable aoe damage output, his pool also slows.

I'm fine with mord synergizing as much with rylais as vlad does. I just find he synergizes even more so than vlad with it. Its a must buy and this doesn't spell fun to me.

MommentoMoore1 votes

what game is that???

Ralanr14 votes

Heroes of the storm.

Emperor Time11 votes

Shit Storm*

FTFY

Eeyore16 votes

Any action game turns into a shitstorm when you have 10 characters bunched together firing skills off.

TallyZrg1 votes

So basically Mordekaiser becomes Riven?

Blitzidious9 votes

Except not overbearing, and insanely mobile.

Supreme Senpai696 votes

And doesn't AFK upon giving first blood

LOL Spammer1 votes

This is kind of like illaio's w right?

Eeyore19 votes

Not even remotely.

LOL Spammer1 votes

Although it could be reworked into something like her w. That would be cool, not really a dash more of just a small jump to.

Eeyore5 votes

It could, but then it would just be illaoi's W...

Pyrodinium1 votes

A neat ability, but I would say that is way too narrow to be practical, for the following reasons:

  • The way movement and attacking works in LoL this ability woul be almost useless against champions with on-demand mobility (and even champions without it would be able to walk behind you and retaliate while the Iron Revenant swings uselessly at the empty air).
  • To have it, Mordekaiser would need to give up his actual Mace of Spades which, while not as flashy as this one, is a skill that allows Morde to farm and trade effectively.
  • It would push Morde into having only AoE skills, heavily limiting his options.
  • The ability forces Morde to commit hard into every trade in which Q is used.
  • The power budget allocation required to include "immune to crowd control effects" would be gigantic, especially since Mordekaiser essentially gains an escape tool.

I can totally see that thing being an ultimate ability, though; especially if the multi-stage knockback is kept.

Eeyore6 votes
  • Mordekaiser is already useless versus champions with on-demand mobility, and characters who walk behind him are out of position for any follow-up.
  • What does it really "limit", except maybe the effectiveness of Rylais or Spellvamp? It's still potent in 1v1 duels.
  • Is commitment a bad thing? :P
  • It's as slow as moving it only affords him pseudo-disengage - it doesn't stop people attacking or keeping up with him.

I don't think it'd be any more difficult to balance than other abilities.

Pyrodinium1 votes

Mordekaiser is already useless versus champions with on-demand mobility, and characters who walk behind him are out of position for any follow-up.

He would be even more useless, as a good chunk of his damage is lost if the opponent dodges. Hell, a good chuck of his damage output would be lost if his target merely stands in place, as Mordekaiser would naturally walk past them as he swings.

What does it really "limit", except maybe the effectiveness of Rylais or Spellvamp? It's still potent in 1v1 duels.

The first thing it comes to my mind is last-hitting under tower and skirmishing (where you often want to hit fast and retreat immediately after).

It's as slow as moving it only affords him pseudo-disengage - it doesn't stop people attacking or keeping up with him.

It makes you immune to crowd control, which is far better than his actual option of just (slowly) walking away.

I don't think it'd be any more difficult to balance than other abilities.

For sure, you can totally balance any ability in the game, but with really convoluted or narrow skills, you start to run into satisfaction problems, as such an ability can feel just terrible to use despite being numerically balanced.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Old Morde never had issues with last hitting under tower when all his abilities were AoE, not a big deal here. Also, it would probably go through all 3 swings before current Morde would get close to getting his current Q3 so it would arguably the same sort of skirmish.

Also, you talk as if a good chunk of his damage isn't already lost by someone with 330+ MS just walking away from him. Morde doesn't have inherent cc (which is fine), but he still gets kited easily and if this slightly boosted his MS like Vlad pool and probably make him "immune to CC" during the duration so the march doesn't stop, but and CC lingers over after duration (ex. Say Q lasts 1.5 seconds with .5 seconds each swing or something, you start ult and IMMEDIATELY stuned by max duration Ashe ult for 3.5 seconds, after your march ends you areally still stuned for 2 seconds).

CHOPSTICKUHH1 votes

The immune to crowd control effects seems like much, you're just asking for another Fiora W..

Raid Boss Morde6 votes

It's not an entire spellshield like Fiora's W though, just immunity to CC.

frafdo1213331 votes

Riven Riven? is it you!? [slayer-jinx-wink]

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Still better than the current Q.

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