I wouldn't mind Lee Sin being p/b for the World's patch tbh

Akali is SO HOT·Sep 4, 2016·42 votes·2,532 views

Much rather have him than Reksai pressing Flash + W all game and Gragas using his lame E + Flash combo and then having Elise as backup if one of them gets banned.

75 Comments

LankPantsSep 4, 201619 votes

I really would, after 3 straight years of the cancer monk being a pick/ban in pro play I'd rather see literally any other champion.

THE RlVER KlNGSep 4, 201618 votes

Yes because instead of actually trying to diversify the jungle let's just make sure the guy who's dominated the jungle for years is viable again, adding him back into the same 4-5 stale jungle roster.

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20164 votes

I'd much rather have Lee Sin for seasons than having the holy trinity of Reksai, Gragas, and Elise all the time.

LankPantsSep 4, 201613 votes

Yes, let's have Lee, Rek'sai and J4 in every single game. That was so much better.

Replacing one bullshit early game jungler with another really doesn't solve any problems.

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20165 votes

There's always gonna be a holy trinity of the jungle no matter what Riot does. The current one is aids and I'd much rather have Lee Sin

LankPantsSep 4, 201615 votes

Maybe just me but I still consider this meta refreshing compared to the Cancer Monk. It may be garbage but at least it's not garbage that's dominated the game for 3 years running.

Gregor GysiSep 4, 20163 votes

But Lee Sin is atleast fun to watch. Okay, Gragas is alright with his ultimate, but Elise and Rek'Sai are just lame.

LankPantsSep 4, 20161 votes

I get sick of any champ after seeing them too often. Being someone who's watched the competitive scene since season two and followed one region (Korea) religiously (around 90% of all games since S2) I've seen more Lee Sin than any other champion.

So no I don't find Lee fun to watch. It's the same bullshit every game anyway, ward hops and kick flashes that are impossible for anyone to do anything about.

I could understand why you might want to see Lee as a jungler if you're a newer player, but as someone who's watched pro play for 4 years I'd prefer to see any other jungler be dominant, including the greatest arsewhole of all time, Nunu.

Gregor GysiSep 4, 20161 votes

Same bullshit every game anyway? You could say that about Elise, but not Lee Sin. I am watching the competetive scene since season three and I still find him fun to watch. When watching Lee sin you always wonder what he is going to do as he actually has so many interesting paths to gank. And kick flashes are way harder to hit than Grag/Rek'Sai knockup flashes. Just because I am familiar with the options Lee Sin has that doesn't mean that I prefer to watch something that doesn't even have any options.

LankPantsSep 4, 20161 votes

And kick flashes are way harder to hit than Grag/Rek'Sai knockup flashes. Just because I am familiar with the options Lee Sin has that doesn't mean that I prefer to watch something that doesn't even have any options.

No they're not, they're substantially easier. Lee Sin suppresses the enemy when he starts his kick, meaning that there is absolutely no reaction available. All he has to do is press R then flash within 0.25 seconds and he gets a guaranteed knockback in any direction he wants.

If you go back and watch Gragas and Rek'sai games you'll see that often players flash when Grag or Rek is about to flash ontop of them. This is because you can respect flash these champs. Lee Sin does not give you this option as he suppresses you.

Same bullshit every game anyway? You could say that about Elise, but not Lee Sin.

You can say it about almost any champ in the game. Every champ has a fairly linear goal that they want to accomplish in the game. What you can't say about any other champ in the game is that you were subjected to that bullshit for 3 years straight.

Gregor GysiSep 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No they're not, they're substantially easier. Lee Sin suppresses the enemy when he starts his kick, meaning that there is absolutely no reaction available. All he has to do is press R then flash within 0.25 seconds and he gets a guaranteed knockback in any direction he wants.

The oppression starts when he is in range for the kick which is a different situation compared to Rek'Sai and Gragas. If you are in range with Gragas E you could just e to the target and when the target flashes the E you can flash aswell and still hit it. If Lee wants to hit his kick from a distance like Gragas/Rek'sai he is going to need to use either Q or W which are both easier to flash.

{quoted}

You can say it about almost any champ in the game. Every champ has a fairly linear goal that they want to accomplish in the game. What you can't say about any other champ in the game is that you were subjected to that bullshit for 3 years straight.

Okay, so compare the possible Lee Sin gank paths for toplane with the possible Elise gank paths.

LankPantsSep 4, 20161 votes

Okay, so compare the possible Lee Sin gank paths for toplane with the possible Elise gank paths.

They both have the same 4 basic gank paths, Tri, River, Lane and Dive (from behind tower). Lee has marginally better approaches on Tri and Dive ganks, but any junglers can take these approaches. Lee Sin is also no better at these paths than any other champ with a ground targeted dash.

TFBaamSep 4, 20161 votes

its not oppression its a root only skarner malz urgod and weedwick have oppressions

LankPantsSep 4, 20161 votes

Lee's kick start up behaves in every way like a suppression. It cannot be cleansed, either with the cleanse SS or with Crucible but it can be cleansed with a QSS. The start of his kick is for all intents and purposes a suppression. I don't know if it's coded as that in game but that is how it acts.

TFBaamSep 4, 20161 votes

you cant aa or cast spells when he ults you? because i can surely can.

Akali is SO HOTSep 4, 20161 votes

It behaves like a root so you can cleanse out of it

LimrickSep 5, 20162 votes

Lee Sin's kit gives the illusion of choice. There is a definitive "best" combo. Ward>W>Flash>Q>R>Q. Every. Single. Time. It's no more impressive or original than Gragas' combo.

Gregor GysiSep 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lee Sin's kit gives the illusion of choice. There is a definitive "best" combo. Ward>W>Flash>Q>R>Q. Every. Single. Time. It's no more impressive or original than Gragas' combo.

Wut. Are you kidding me?? Flash - Q - R? Do you want them to dodge or what is the plan here?

LankPantsSep 5, 20161 votes

Just because he has the order wrong it doesn't mean the point is wrong. Lee has a clear best combo, Ward>W>R>Flash>Q>Q, due to the end stun on his ult. The only time when this isn't the best combo is when you kick through an enemy champ, when you'd want to Ward>W>Q>R>Flash>Q

Gregor GysiSep 5, 20161 votes

Yeah, if everything is up and you need to flash for the insec then this is the safest option indeed. But a really good Lee Sin has so many options to be creative that saying there is a clear best combo is ignorant. Lee Sin has many options and the best entirely depends on the situation. If the enemy has QSS then any variation of the R -> QQ is greedy. If flash isn't available things get much harder aswell.

OnanThaManSep 4, 20167 votes

{quoted}

But Lee Sin is atleast fun to watch. Okay, Gragas is alright with his ultimate, but Elise and Rek'Sai are just lame.

Speak for yourself, Lee has had his spotlight for three years before this, I am very bored of him.

DeathBot666Sep 4, 20161 votes

Personally I would love to see a little more zac played. This might just be me cause he's one of my go-to jungles, but he got played once in the LCS 3rd finals game and I found it pretty fun to watch.

AnidanSep 4, 20162 votes

Sejuani on a field where she isn't overpowered is pretty fun to see. She rides a boar. A FREAKING BOAR! How is that not cool?

Voluug13Sep 5, 20162 votes

Remember when Riot tried to sell a Lee ''outplaying'' an Ashe? God that was pathetic.

LankPantsSep 5, 20161 votes

Why outplay when you can simply outkit?

Voluug13Sep 5, 20161 votes

softly You forgot Vi.

Subject 5Sep 4, 201616 votes

Lee is in like every other game of mine. Pretty annoying.

TwinkieProSep 4, 20162 votes

But you have to admit his combos are far more intensive and more fun to watch than everyone elses.

hhaavviikkSep 4, 20165 votes

not outside lcs, Q >R>Q or ward > Q > R >Q not all that intensive or fun to watch, not for me at least.

TwinkieProSep 4, 20161 votes

You'd much rather have the much harder Gragas E>flash>R? or the lee Q>R>Flash>Q? Literally accomplishes the same thing, lee does more damage and grag is far more tanky.

Voluug13Sep 5, 20162 votes

Yes, because I seldom see Gragas. Lee is everywhere outside LCS and Diamond+.

hhaavviikkSep 5, 20162 votes

yes because I didn't see gragas 3 seasons in a row every single game where as lee sin has been popular ever since release and is in allot of game and was top jungler for several seasons.

BisaknospSep 4, 20169 votes

fuck lee sin he doesnt need any buffs

VallalanSep 4, 20165 votes

that would mean they would have to buff lee sin I feel. no thanks. that champ already one shots you with one damage item and a component. he basically needs like a warrior enchant and a hexdrinker and if you are an adc its rip for you. its disgusting that he can one shot like an assassin and still build mostly tanky. mobile as fuck too. ever try to catch a halfway decent lee? good fucking luck.

fuck that champ. I wouldn't mind seeing him at worlds but not for the sake of buffing him. I personally would rather see champs like Jarvan, Kindred, Graves, Nidalee again.

Michael SykesSep 4, 20161 votes

they already do buff him and they did a few patches before

GayFluffyUnicornSep 4, 20161 votes

I'm better off just ignoring adc main posts. Everyone can oneshot you, adcs have zero dmg, no mobility, no cc, nothing atall. Poor adcs are so weak and can't do anything. KAPPA MUCH

AnidanSep 4, 20162 votes

Eh.. depends on the main. I mained ADC but knew that if anything harder than a stiff breeze came across me it was going to break at least 1 or 2 bones. Though I play more MOBAs than just League, so I guess it's far easier to appreciate how absurd League carries can be as early as they can be absurd.

League carries come online after 1-2 items, depending on the carry (barring Koggy, but he comes online at about the same total gold) DotA carries can come online instantly (Luna) but then fall off fairly quickly, or they can take 2-3 big items (Anti-Mage, Morphling, Weaver) to become a huge threat, or they can take all the way to nearly full-built (Medusa, Spectre) before their true potential is revealed as an unkillable god-kind that will kill you in moments. HotS carry-types vary between assassins and mages, and can either be useful very quickly (Zeratul, Kerrigan), or require levels and probably cooperation so their greatest assets can be useful (Jaina, Kael'thas) and it's been a while since I played SMITE, but unless something changed, a lot of the carries there need 2-3 items to function properly as well.

League seems to be an anomaly in that early game carries don't generally fall off as hard as they should.

Backup4nowSep 4, 20165 votes

I personally find Lee Sin infuriating to watch when I know with 100% certainty that all he'll be doing all game post-6 is ward -> w -> r. It looks and IS an insanely cheap and unfair combo. I know Gragass e-flash is no better, but at least the three mentioned are almost fair for the most part when considering that most characters in lcs have strong cc or tons of dashes/mobility with which to deal with them. Ofc, I would rather see some Zac or Twitch jungle rather than ANY of those, but whatever.

LankPantsSep 5, 20161 votes

I know Gragass e-flash is no better

I disagree, Grag's E-Flash is better.

When Lee W-R-Flashes or Q-R-Flashes he always generates a theoretical advantage. Sure, you can burn a flash preemptively but he has no reason to flash after you if you do this, so he gets your flash for no real cost. If you don't flash preemptively he gets to kick you back into his team 100% of the time.

In contrast you can preemptively flash Grag's E-Flash and trade flashes, of course he could not flash to try to generate a flash advantage but if he does that and you don't flash you get away for free. If you hold your flash being greedy he can flash on to you to punish it.

Gragas's E-flash is far better than Lee's flash combo because there's an actual mindgame about it, rather than just 'fuck you burn flash'.

Backup4nowSep 5, 20161 votes

I don't see any "flash games" to be healthy at all, yeah? I'm one of those that thinks flash should be removed and the game rebalanced around its absence. Doesn't matter if it's a mindgame or not, it's an extension of an ability that is caused by using flash. Whether or not there's a mindgame around it is irrelevant because it's still cheese-covered bullshit either way and shouldn't be in the game.

LankPantsSep 5, 20161 votes

I don't see any "flash games" to be healthy at all, yeah? I'm one of those that thinks flash should be removed and the game rebalanced around its absence.

The shear loss of diversity this would cause is astonishing. Do you want to try to play champs like Ashe, Syndra, Xerath or Sona without flash and tell me how that goes? You can't, these champs are utterly reliant on flash to function.

Removing flash also creates an even stronger early dominance meta. There's no good ways for late game champs to escape ganks at all, so playing them becomes a huge risk, so why would you? Just pick up your Lee Sins and Lucians every game and abuse any champs who are weaker early since their one possible escape no longer exists.

Backup4nowSep 5, 20161 votes

There's a reason I said for the game to rebalanced around its absence. I'm well aware the game would be 100% unplayable without flash because the game is currently balanced around everyone taking it.

ForgiveColourSep 4, 20163 votes

more like 100% gameplay qq thread about lee sin LUL

Jaygo41Sep 4, 20161 votes

At least Lee requires an ounce of skill, rather than, as you so eloquently said, Flash W or E Flashing on either of the only 2 meta junglers

Smok3McCl0udSep 4, 20161 votes

Lee sin does not require skill.

Jaygo41Sep 4, 20161 votes

This is incorrect.

Smok3McCl0udSep 4, 20161 votes

[deleted]

Jaygo41Sep 4, 20162 votes

So it doesn't take skill or knowledge to use the only 15 minutes of the game you're useful for, playing a champ that relies strictly on a skillshot or a mechanic that not everyone has such as wardhopping or anything like that? CLEARLY if he doesn't take skill and he TRULY just one shots everyone like you believe, he must win a lot of games huh?

Oh.

46%.

You're an idiot.

But why? How can a champ that one shots everyone lose a game? That's ridiculous! "Kids are bad at him." Ohhhhh, that's why. "He has a high playrate." Broken champs still have high win and high play rates. Bad argument

Thanks for playing.

Instead of spouting bullshit, at least bring a stat to your argument.