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Riot is against toxicity, but won't fix toxic inducing problems.

Hay5eed··2 votes·606 views

Lets face it, I doubt any of us will actually say that we are toxic people. I know a couple of fellow league players and they are genuinely nice people, but all of us have a flaw...we want things to be fair. How many of us became toxic when we lost to a mirror matchup? I doubt a lot of people can, because the answer to the question "Why am I losing?" is simple, they are just better then you. They farm better, they have better poke, they plan ganks better, they utilize their combos better, or their build is better. Nuff said. But it's when you play against a match-up that feel unfair that you get toxic, and their are A LOT of champion that feel incredibly unfair.

Lee Sin gets to do everything, build one damage item and then build tank and you'll generally be able to 1v1 the adc

Annie feels unfair because she has lots of damage, lots of range, all of her abilites are either target or with a huge AOE, and she has an point and click instant AOE stun in her kit that also deals lots of damage.

Darius has an incredible amount of damage plus DOT and has a strong heal in his kit

Fizz can get a Zhonya's for free by Level 1 (usually gets it by level 3). Except it's even better then a Zhonya's, He can control when he comes out of it, hip in a direction, release AOE damage, and can even be used to hop over walls, or to just gap close

We all know that these champs are in general unfair, but I want to draw your attention to a toxic champ that doesn't get a lot of attention.

Sona...Freaking Sona. Take a Spelltheif's Edge and go bot lane or grab a Amplifying Tome and go mid and you'll end up doing the same thing which is getting anywhere near the enemy and pressing Q and watch and the enemy flees in terror and two blue bolts of lighting fly their way to poke them for quite a lot of damage....and it's absolutely free. Her Q scales at 50% AP which is on par for most mages, has bonus magic damage scaling at 20% Ap on her next auto, and the only requirements for landing it is proximity and mana. The rest of her kit just makes it worse. Even if you grab a pair of boots you won't be able to out run her because of her E. You can try to poke at her from range but her W gives her a ton of sustain You can call for ganks but her ult will ruin it. She'll grab a few AP items and then rush Athene's Unholy Grail so that she never runs out of mana. Last I checked, her role was Support, with mage as a secondary, yet her entire kit is just perfect for a solo lane.

Can we get something about this changed? Really the only problem is with her Q, it needs to have a nerf on it, tune it back to like, 30% AP, or have it NOT prioritize champions so that it's harder to spam in lane, make it shoot only one bolt idk SOMETHING

7 Comments

3TWarrior1 votes

I would like to point out a few tidbits about sona

her sustain is only average, this means that an opposing poke mage will out do her in lane

her mana costs early game are not the best

if there is a gank, sona is almost guaranteed to die unless she manages to stun both opponents

sona has no potential late game as a mage other than as a light damage but assured poke, but its her assured damage that hurts the most as 20% to 50% of an opponent's health come late game is a reliable amount of damage, provided you don't get jumped and killed

unlike other mages, sona only has one form of hard crowd control (although it can hit multiple champions), the range of which is also misleading

sona has a few advantageous matchups mid, but her worst matchups tend to reside in mid (burst assassins and high damage mages) and as it stands, mid lane is the most vulnerable to ganks

probably the only matchup a sona would annoy to death is yasuo, but his shield gives him a large amount of poke mitigation and if he specializes with runes, he can both duel and kill a sona at probably 7 minutes into the game just by passively farming and awaiting opportunities

an urgot mid can probably outsustain her poke and deal his own while having longer range free farm in lane(though lets be real, outside of the lcs, no one is going to take urgot mid...)

I enjoy playing as sona and have had several players mock a non-skillshot champ, but those slow clap moments of applause can be worth it when a team works in harmony and sona plays her role as the ultimate utility champion

Hay5eed1 votes

You point out all these flaws and yet I have yet to see only a few of them come true in actual game-play. Her sustain may not be great but it's more then what most Mage's get, or actually any mage. Say it's balanced all you want, free poke is free poke, and when it scales off of 50% AP and requires nothing but the press of a button it's just not fair to other mages. And I am talking about her laning versus mages specifically. Of course I know that a high burst assassin like Le Blanc or maybe even Zed (is he still viable?) can dispatch her with ease but frankly that's not the point. It seems that all everyone talks about is counter picking these days and how, just because a champ has a few counters, that makes them balanced but it doesn't. Team Builder exists. Blind Pick exists. And these game times are among my favorites, but when you have to lane against someone that is playing out of the champ's designated position and they wind up kicking your ass not because they are a better player, but because their main source of damage is FREE then it create a really shitty player experience. You say that Yas is the only match that she could annoy to death but that doesn't even make sense. He can use minions to dive on her at level 2, auto her a few times, use his shield and crits (which will heal cause of masteries) to counter the damage he'll take, and then dash out.

What about Twisted Fate? When I take Twisted Fate mid, and I start with my pick a card ability, what am I supposed to do when she constantly runs me down to poke with her Q? Use gold card on her? The poke damage still happens, and sense my Gold card scales at 50% AP but has lower base damage, she wins that trade. What about level two when I get my Q? She charges, Q's, I gold card, then Q, then auto, which proc's Thunderlords Decree, and then she auto's me doing bonus damage cause of her Q, and then heals, and thus I lose the trade OR she heals first and gets a shield, auto's me to reduce my damage, then Q's and auto's, all of this against my stun, Q, and auto combo means that I lose the trade again. Complain about her mana problems all you want but hell, get a ROA or an Unholy Grail and you really shouldn't be having mana problems, or get an Archangels Staff. There are a lot of options for mana heavy mages out there that grant both mana and AP

TSP ECLIPSE1 votes

{quoted}

You point out all these flaws and yet I have yet to see only a few of them come true in actual game-play. Her sustain may not be great but it's more then what most Mage's get, or actually any mage. Say it's balanced all you want, free poke is free poke, and when it scales off of 50% AP and requires nothing but the press of a button it's just not fair to other mages. And I am talking about her laning versus mages specifically. Of course I know that a high burst assassin like Le Blanc or maybe even Zed (is he still viable?) can dispatch her with ease but frankly that's not the point. It seems that all everyone talks about is counter picking these days and how, just because a champ has a few counters, that makes them balanced but it doesn't. Team Builder exists. Blind Pick exists. And these game times are among my favorites, but when you have to lane against someone that is playing out of the champ's designated position and they wind up kicking your ass not because they are a better player, but because their main source of damage is FREE then it create a really shitty player experience. You say that Yas is the only match that she could annoy to death but that doesn't even make sense. He can use minions to dive on her at level 2, auto her a few times, use his shield and crits (which will heal cause of masteries) to counter the damage he'll take, and then dash out.

What about Twisted Fate? When I take Twisted Fate mid, and I start with my pick a card ability, what am I supposed to do when she constantly runs me down to poke with her Q? Use gold card on her? The poke damage still happens, and sense my Gold card scales at 50% AP but has lower base damage, she wins that trade. What about level two when I get my Q? She charges, Q's, I gold card, then Q, then auto, which proc's Thunderlords Decree, and then she auto's me doing bonus damage cause of her Q, and then heals, and thus I lose the trade OR she heals first and gets a shield, auto's me to reduce my damage, then Q's and auto's, all of this against my stun, Q, and auto combo means that I lose the trade again. Complain about her mana problems all you want but hell, get a ROA or an Unholy Grail and you really shouldn't be having mana problems, or get an Archangels Staff. There are a lot of options for mana heavy mages out there that grant both mana and AP

You do realize that attacking someone elses' opinion about a champ is being toxic. you asked for opinions and instead of being constructive you are tearing it down. Just an opinion of my own.

For my second cent (2 cents), your list is detailed and yes that is the MOST effective early vs struggling lead that champs can do, but teamwork is teamwork and working together wins games.

Hay5eed1 votes

Cent number one: I did not ask for opinions. If you look at the post nowhere did I ask for opinions, except for in the polls, so technically if you want to disagree with me, do it in the polls (and people have been). (ok, enough with my smart-ass response) You say that I am attacking someone else's opinion, but don't you realize that anyone that writes a comment that disagrees with me is attacking my opinion? Am I taking offense to my opinion being attacked? Not at all, because that's what it is, an opinion, not everyone agrees with it I know. I see it more as a debate. I argue that A is a problem, I propose that B is a solution. People can then counter argue that A is not a problem for reasons 1, 2, and 3(which is what is happening here) or they can say that B is not a proper solution, they may even propose their own solution, C. After that I can then counter argue that reasons 1, 2, and/or 3 are false, or do not prove that A is not a problem, or I can argue that B is a proper solution, or that C is not a proper solution and so on.

Cent number two: While I wish that I could say that Teamwork makes or breaks the game I don't honestly believe it. Granted, if team A and team B are identical, and team A uses teamwork, team B is going to lose. But no team game is 100% the same champions, and if you take all the almost forgotten, discarded, and never used champions and make team A out of it, and take the most effective, most powerful champions, and make team B with it, then it becomes very likely that Team A is going to lose this one.

Remember, almost any fed champion can carry, and considering that there are two solo lanes and a whole jung to farm and get kills in, a lot of pressure is placed on YOU the player and not the team as a whole

shadowsaotome1 votes

Couple of things to point out, as someone who plays a ton of Sona support with both utility and aggro builds.

  • Her Q is not free. It's never been free. It costs mana, and early on if you're spamming it you will drain your mana in a hurry. Her Q range is high, but her AA range is not; the Q itself is not where the most damage is, it's the empowered AA afterward or the power chord.
  • Her W costs even more mana than her Q, and if she has to spam that she will absolutely, without fail, run out of mana in lane. It's far more effective for the power chord early on than the actual healing effect, and again her AA range is average.
  • Sona has no mobility. None. She has no blinks, no dashes, and her E gives her a laughably low amount of movement speed. However, the power chord from her E applies a pretty potent slow, so I could see that being problematic.
  • You mention using Twisted Fate against Sona midlane, and while I could see that being a bit problematic early, TF's scalings seem far better than Sona's. I'm not sure how his AA range measures against Sona's, but I do know that she cannot sustain long engagements. Her CDs and mana costs are just too high until she gets to mid-game.
  • As TF, you can farm better than she can. Period. The only things she can do to farm are use Q and AA.
  • Sona is incredibly fragile. Her base HP and growth are abysmal. She has to build a staggering amount of AP for her heal to be effective in a solo lane. Also, if she's dumping points into her W, then her Q is failing, which is her only real source of damage.
Hay5eed1 votes

By "free" I meant that there was no real amount of effort put into casting the spell, by your logic no spell is free, because even ones on manaless champs cost the ability itself, and puts it on CD.

Twisted Fates auto range is pretty much the same as Sona's I think (actually I just looked it up, her auto has an extra 25 on it)

Her burst is actually better, and her scaling is the same as TF (the supposed burst assassin is matched in scaling by a support, you get my point?).

You know what's better then farm? Getting kills, and Sona can do that easily because any sort of sustained fight lets her get off her empowered AA and/or powerchord, which you say is her weakness, but if she has better burst then me to begin with, but her REAL damage comes from her next auto attack, which happens in any sustained fight...how does that make her weak?

TF's whole thing is pushing his mid-lane, and then instead of taking a tower, roaming to bot or possibly top lane to assist other lanes. If he tries to ult when he is pushed under tower he is very likely to lose that tower, and considering that he is not garenteed a kill or even an assits upon ulting, it is not a fair trade

TF is not great at farming. You may think his Q makes him good at farming, but that really goes well into mid to late game, and lets face it, who the hell DOESN'T farm well then? Since TF has to take pick a card at Level 1, that leaves him with 1.) a single target damage ability 2.) an aoe slow 3.) a single target stun, and since TF needs his Q and empowered E to do awesome amounts of damage, he can't really do anything level one. Which is of course where Sona bullies the crap out of her lane opponent. Her she may suck at farming, but if I can get a steady 70% of the farm relying solely on TF's auto's (not including his E, and note that I AM a bronze player) then it can't be that hard for Sona (I just checked, Sona and TF have the same base AD)

Sona is incredibly fragile, but so is TF, and so are a lot of other mages out there

And may I point out? Many people, like you, do not even consider her as a viable AP mid-laner. You like Sona as a support, cause of her heals, sheild, slows/ms-buffs, and her power chord effects. Do you REALLY care about her Q? Is an aura based buff/debuff based support supposed to be creeping around in brush Q'ing at her opponents whenever they draw close?

People look at the top ELO's to determine weather or not a champ is overpowered or not and I think that's really unfair. There are Thousands of more Bronze players then plat or diamond. I'm not saying that Riot should only listen to whatever Bronze has to say, but it's totally unfair that the entire Bronze tier gets no respect and are just generally shit on by Riot and every other tier. Top elo's don't consider Sona to be a mid lane mage, why not nerf her damage in order to ensure that that stuff doesn't happen in lower Elo's?

3TWarrior1 votes

I will point out what I can address

a yasuo matchup against sona is indeed a bad matchup for her, but at the same time, the yasuo can not get into range safely, especially if the lane is pushed to her tower, but during laning, Sona's Q will constantly either remove his shield or break through it if she can manage an auto attack

Twisted fate is indeed facing an awkward, unfavored matchup against sona mid lane, but that is mainly because sona outdoes twisted at what he does best, a sustained source of burst, whereas sona's burst is targeted and potentially unexpected

I would like to point out for twisted fate, however, he has far greater roaming potential than sona and will perform his utility role better once he assists another lane

Sona might be able to force him to lose a tower once her damage overcomes his situational burst, but twisted fate and his allies will take a tower, perhaps even a second if the jungler assists as an equal trade for his roam and the kill gold will benefit either Twisted Fate or the carry, but in a disadvantageous matchup, it would be better to give the carry the kill and instead allow twisted to take the remaining lane minions

blind picks are meant to be chaotic, but they mostly have a system and ranked is mostly a blind pick except that you know what your opponents are picking, but not their rank or position until the match begins

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