Judgment (E) Tick changed from [5+1 per 3 levels (max 10)] to [8+1 per 20% attack speed] Base damage changed from 14/18/22/26/30 to 9/15/21/27/33 AD ratio changed from .36/.37/.38/.39/.4 to .26/.295/.33/.365/.40 Hits needed to shred armor increased from 4 to 6 [Removed] No longer deals 33% bonus damage if hitting only one enemy [New] now deals 25% bonus damage and applies on hit effects (50% damage) to nearest enemy
5050BS1 votesWow just compared from the last round
Judgment (E) Tick changed from [5+1 per 3 levels (max 10)] to [8+1 per 25% attack speed] Garen gains 49.3% attack speed by level 18 Base damage changed from 14/18/22/26/30 to 9/15/21/27/33 AD ratio changed from .36/.37/.38/.39/.4 to .26/.295/.33/.365/.40 Hits needed to shred armor increased from 4 to 6 [Removed] No longer deals 33% bonus damage if hitting only one enemy [New] now deals 25% bonus damage and applies on hit effects (50% damage) to nearest enemy
He will get even more hits with attack speed then before. Riot is Crazy
EbonyBladeJ881 votesThis is still just experimental; it may end up like the Wukong and Teemo reworks we've seen and may not even see the light of day before some massive changes. It all depends on the feedback that Catchaxes/Riot gets.
5050BS1 votesYes I know. I just cant believe they buffed it to hit even more.
People all say "no one will build full attack speed on him in live. He will just die too fast"
They dont understand the sustain he has with E that does not stop when he is Stunned.
EbonyBladeJ881 votesYes I know. I just cant believe they buffed it to hit even more.
It's an experimental change to push him to build more like other "Freight Train" Juggernauts, such as Shyvana, Volibear (Though that may not be true anymore with the future VGU) Trundle and maybe a few others I might be forgetting.
If you're wondering what I mean by "Freight Train", it's an unofficial classification that Juggernaut players such as myself use.
In addition to the existing Subclass setup that Riot created, Juggernaut players have expanded it and made their own "Subclasses" OF the Juggernaut Subclass of Fighters. These are "Raid Boss" and "Freight Train" style Juggernauts.
Raid Bosses are the slow, powerful ones such as 
, 
, 
, 
, as they have certain "Steroids" or "Boosts" they must activate or proc through various means to be most effective (Noxian Might, Darkness Rise, Echoing Flames, etc.).
Freight Trains are the faster, but less hard-hitting or less tanky Juggernauts, as the case may be with the champion themselves. Examples are of course, our one and only 
, along with 
, 
and 
.
Now some are kind of a mix between the two, such as 
and 
getting MS and/or AS with certain parts of their kits (Sadism/Ult for Mundo and Frozen Domain for Trundle), but for the most part, you can fit all the Juggernauts within those two unofficial categories.
People all say "no one will build full attack speed on him in live. He will just die too fast"
You bring up the drawback to this yourself. If this were to go live, Garen would HAVE the option to build AS to maximize his E's effectiveness, but he runs the risk of being too squishy since most AS items provide little to no innate defensive bonuses.
In a manner of speaking, with this change to where his E gains spins based on his AS, this suggests to go more for building Crit items, since his E HAS Critical Strike interactions, and he is, as far as I know, the ONLY JUGGERNAUT IN THE ENTIRE GAME to have Crit interactions,even if its only on 1 Ability. Since I've never built Crit on him myself, even WAY BACK when I first started playing around 2012 (A full year, more or less, before Garen's Visual Update even) I've kind of struggled with understanding WHY he has had that interaction IN his E. With this change, it might ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE to build it on him now.
Also, while you don't mention it here (You have your own reasons, I won't mock you for not bringing it up), but in the previous iteration his W also got some changes, where the amount of Armor and MR he gains is greatly reduced, so he can't depend on it quite as much. I haven't looked at the full list for this newest iteration, but I assume at this time of writing that the changes are more or less the same to his W here as it was there.
I've tested this myself in the PBE, and while I haven't gathered enough info yet to make an expert analysis, I've found the most success by simply doing what Garen already did; 1 to 2 damage items, and full tank the rest of the way.
He already has Tenacity in his E, so he can take the 10% AS Stat Shard, and the Legend Alacrity for an additional 18% when it's fully stacked. With his 3% AS increase in level ups, he gains 30% come level 18, so that's about 58%, so 2, ALMOST 3 additional spins by that alone. That's not really a huge boost.
They dont understand the sustain he has with E that does not stop when he is Stunned.
In a manner of speaking, the sustain he will get (Presumably because of his newfound ability to stack Conqueror) will be a GOOD thing. Garen (Alongside and , though like I said above, that may be changing with the VGU Voli's getting) is one of the few Juggernauts who literally has NO IN--BUILT sustain. Much like the New Mordekaiser, his sustain, in a manner of speaking, would rely heavily on the heal from the Conqueror Rune.
Here's examples of what some of the others have:
: Heal on Outer Blade of his Q.
: Heal every time a Champion is hit with a Tentacle, whether it be her Q or the ones she spawns via her passive or her Ult.
: Heal every time a unit near him dies based on a percentage of that unit's maximum health.
: Yes, it's free innate life-steal, but HE has to proc it by hitting someone or something.
: Heals for a percentage of the physical damage he deals.
: Heals every time he hits someone or something with his Q.
: Turtle Form: 3 stacks = Heal based on percentage of his missing health.
For Garen, his "Sustain" is Out-of-Combat boosted regen. That's not really a very "Juggernauty" thing, as most Juggernauts, Garen included even, want to be in the THICK OF IT FOR AS LONG AS THEY CAN. This change would allow him to actually stay in a fight rather than being dependent on running in, doing what he can and then backing off so his Passive can heal him and wait for his cooldowns.
Ragnaveil1 votesTo be fair, it makes Tri a core on him. You could also run Legend: Alacrity to get attack speed without having to invest heavy in it. Wits can fix his sustain issue, especially if he's getting low in a trade.
EbonyBladeJ881 votesTo be fair, it makes Tri a core on him. You could also run Legend: Alacrity to get attack speed without having to invest heavy in it. Wits can fix his sustain issue, especially if he's getting low in a trade.
Yes, but TBH, I was kind of interested in the fact that he might actually be viable with Conqueror with the On-Hit effect, but now that that's gone (At least based on my most recent check of Surrender@20's PBE coverage) it's just the same old Grasp. He needs changes that can help him have more synergy with more Keystones.
Ragnaveil1 votesI think to make Conq work, they should make each tick count towards Conq stacking (or every 2 hits, just experiment on it). Its a rune he kinda wants to use, but cant use due to E coding.
EbonyBladeJ881 votesAs is, he has to stack by AAing for the most part. Yes, the Q and E count for 1 stack, but there's 3 more he has to get to fully proc it. You may not have the luxury of the time to do so if you're getting wailed on by multiple enemies, or in some other kind of bind.
Most other Juggernauts can use it, yet Garen gets left out in the cold.
Absolut Garen4 votes[{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=seg8ainA,comment-
In a manner of speaking, with this change to where his E gains spins based on his AS, this suggests to go more for building Crit items, since his E HAS Critical Strike interactions, and he is, as far as I know, the ONLY JUGGERNAUT IN THE ENTIRE GAME to have Crit interactions,even if its only on 1 Ability. Since I've never built Crit on him myself, even WAY BACK when I first started playing around 2012 (A full year, more or less, before Garen's Visual Update even) I've kind of struggled with understanding WHY he has had that interaction IN his E. With this change, it might ACTUALLY MAKE SENSE to build it on him now.
The crit on Garen E was kind of a nostalgic joke. It's not part of his powerbudget, and was left in just for "fun builds". Crit Garen was effectively dead with Runes Reforged, since it was only the possibility of starting with some crit runes that made it worthwhile to buy the one crit item - IE. When intrinsic crit was removed from IE during the crit rework, it didn't practically affect Garen at all.
I've tested this myself in the PBE, and while I haven't gathered enough info yet to make an expert analysis, I've found the most success by simply doing what Garen already did; 1 to 2 damage items, and full tank the rest of the way.
Yeah, he can't really change his standard build, but that means, of necessity, the changes on PBE right now are a net nerf.
He already has Tenacity in his E, so he can take the 10% AS Stat Shard, and the Legend Alacrity for an additional 18% when it's fully stacked. With his 3% AS increase in level ups, he gains 30% come level 18, so that's about 58%, so 2, ALMOST 3 additional spins by that alone. That's not really a huge boost.
He has Tenacity on his W, you mean. And the scaling on E is coded specifically to ignore AS contributions from runes. AS Shard, Alacrity will not help. (Even if they did, they would probably still be poor choices.)
Darkdemon6531 votesThey take stuff of the PTR and put it back on later when the patch is coming out but they still want the changes to be tested more.
Saezio1 votesLet us know when he becomes a playable champion in Pro/ D1+ and we will talk about it then.
ThisName1sDumb1 votesDude, when they added back changes to the PBE they didn't bring back on hit. They buffed the attack speed scaling and removed on hit. [zombie-brand-facepalm]