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Would it really hurt to at least test out AP Items geared towards AP Assassins?

Akali is SO HOT··8 votes·576 views

With so many changes focused on AD Assassin items I don't think it would hurt to at least test some things out. I would love to be able to have a wider variety of items to build instead of the same standard build every game with a situational item at the end. A few ideas I had were these:

Item name: +40AP +10% Movement Speed Unique: +15 Magic Pen Unique Active: Gain 30% movement speed for 6 seconds (halved for ranged champions). Grants a bonus 10%(+1% per 100AP) damage on basic attacks and single target spells against enemy champions.

Item Name: +50AP +30 Magic Resistance +10% Movement Speed Unique: +20 Magic Pen Unique Active: Get a shield equal to 50(+20% AP + 20% Movement Speed) for 6 seconds.

Item Name: +50 AP +20 Armor +15% Movement Speed Unique Passive: Doing magic damage against an enemy champion grants bonus movement speed and armor for 3 seconds. This effect lasts for 4 seconds and stacks up to 3 times. Unique Active: Trade 20 armor for 20 Magic Pen for 4 seconds.

Idk just some random ideas. They may be good, bad, overpowered, etc. but these are just some interesting ideas. None of these seem like they would be abused by mages because of the wasted stats on movement speed (something most mages don't want to invest in) and the passives and actives are geared more towards Assassins rather than mages. I think it would be cool to get some new items for AP Assassins. Thoughts?

29 Comments

Nagoh Shan8 votes

Here's a legit question.

What item can Akali, Kassadin, or Diana use, that Viktor, Lissandra, Sona, Ahri, or Syndra wouldn't benefit from?

You could make an AP melee only item, potentially, but if you didn't it will benefit burst mages just the same as AP assassins.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

I think as long as they make them geared more towards single target spells or auto attacks the items won't be a must pick on people like Syndra or Ahri. If they are, then I think it's worth it (as long as they aren't abused) just like AD Assassins get items that are still used by other classes even if they are meant for them (even after the preseason changes ADCs are still probably going to buy Ghostblade). I think testing things out couldn't hurt and having melee only items in the game isn't a bad thing either if it prevents abuse cases.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

AP Assasins, unlike AD Assasin, actually use the current AP items to great affect. Some even use them Better than most mages. They don't NEED items geared towards them more than the ones that already exist.

Bonus Damage scaling nuke item that scales more with more stats AD Assassins item 3147 AP Assassins item 3285 ..hell they even have the AP Mage item 3089 as an option AS WELL... AND item 3135 ...

Defensive utility option against AP -AD Assassin (Edge of Night) -AP Assassins item 3001

** Defensive Option against AD** -AD assassins (none) -AP assassins item 3157

** Mobility tool** -AD Assassin item 3142 -AP Assassins item 3152

Then they have access to ALL the other AP mage items on TOP of this.

Honestly these comes off more as a "Sniff sniif" i feel we feel left out" as opposed to something that actually needs to be done.

AP assassins don't need more Magic Pen. MR is already so little in the game and AP scales so high that what little they have is more than enough on top of the huge amount of AP they get to kill squishes, since more champs dont even have scaling MR per level to begin with, unlike Armor which every champ except Thresh does.

Penns1 votes

Well Ap assassins: Kassadin Akali Fizz Leblanc Ekko Katarina

List of ap assassins that build Ludens: Katarina ... its just not that good

List of ap assassins that build Protobelt: Ekko and maybe Fizz or Kassadin apparently because its broken.

Maybe not magic pen but an AP assassin item with out of combat move speed and a passive/active for assasssins would be great.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Well Ap assassins: Kassadin Akali Fizz Leblanc Ekko Katarina

List of ap assassins that build Ludens: Katarina ... its just not that good

Okay imma stop you here because this is Bullshit. First off, Leblanc most certainly gets the item.

Second The reason all the other champs on the list dont get it is because they build like freaking AP bruisers as opposed to assassins right now.

List of ap assassins that build Protobelt: Ekko and maybe Fizz or Kassadin apparently because its broken.

I've seen literally everything that wants AP ever get it. Even supports. Yes, even all the champs you listed.

Maybe not magic pen but an AP assassin item with out of combat move speed and a passive/active for assasssins would be great.

item 3285 gives constant %movespeed tho. So does item 3100 and item 1402

If you want them to be updated to give OoC Movespeed, that is a completely different discussion. Personally, I prefer the constant MS myself as OoC MS means you are a turtle once you get hit once or reach your target, which isn't fun.

Penns1 votes

I only looked at champion.gg stats for those "lists" and LB apparently only gets it as last item or not at all in the highest win rate build, which isnt worth mentioning imo.

My 2 problems are 1) I just dont feel like melee ap assassins are even mid laners anymore. They just (ab)use mage if they go mid lane but are generally way worse than mages, at least AD assassins have other advantages. And 2) Not many build Ludens or Lich Bane and no one really jungles with them. I really expected 1 or 2 ap assassin items but oh well... As long as Fizz gets released viable Im fine lol.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I only looked at champion.gg stats for those "lists" and LB apparently only gets it as last item or not at all in the highest win rate build, which isnt worth mentioning imo.

My 2 problems are 1) I just dont feel like melee ap assassins are even mid laners anymore. They just (ab)use mage if they go mid lane but are generally way worse than mages, at least AD assassins have other advantages. And 2) Not many build Ludens or Lich Bane and no one really jungles with them. I really expected 1 or 2 ap assassin items but oh well... As long as Fizz gets released viable Im fine lol.

Its a Mage meta right now. u dont see assasins in general, lol. Has nothing to do with their items.

Also, what advantage are you talking about with AD assassins? Cuz i really don't see it.

As long as Fizz gets released viable Im fine lol.

Ive had Fizz players tell me he is better than ever bu in my experience (as a non fizz player) I think he might end up an AP bruiser with his new W. Either that or i am just a shit Fizz which is probably the case TBH. xD

Katarina and Leblanc are gonna be great now tho.

Penns1 votes

Well ad assassins get items like Maw or that Sorcerers Bane thing, more dmg to towers and better trades early with auto attacks,... I dk, I guess Im just not a fan of AD assassins getting a new stat that has synergy with other items, many items with ooc move speed and even utility on Duskblade and a spellshield to counter disengages while ap assassins have to keep just buying normal mage items.

I dont think Fizz is that good but he is getting buffed on the pbe so.. We’ll see.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Well ad assassins get items like Maw or that Sorcerers Bane thing, more dmg to towers and better trades early with auto attacks,... I dk, I guess Im just not a fan of AD assassins getting a new stat that has synergy with other items, many items with ooc move speed and even utility on Duskblade and a spellshield to counter disengages while ap assassins have to keep just buying normal mage items.

I dont think Fizz is that good but he is getting buffed on the pbe so.. We’ll see.

  • AP assassins have access to both item 3157 and item 3001 for AD and AP opponents respectively while AD only have answers for mages.

  • Magic damage dealers actually DO bonus damage based on their AP to turrets now with the Season 6 changes.

  • Fizz, Ekko and Kassadin actually have good auto attack trades with their W's giving them % and or on hit AP damage. Additionally, ranged champs have the advantage over, melee AD assasins when it comes to auto trades regardless.

AP assasins have SO much more utility than AD assasins as is. This is less a case of AD getting stuff but AP not getting anythign, and more of a case of "Ap already has so much while AD has nothing"

Penns1 votes

Well Abyssal is good but its getting nerfed.. or changed.. but basically nerfed in preseason and rushing Zhonyas isnt that good against anything other than Zed.

Also both the %hp and the on hit damage is getting removed from Fizz item 3070

Maybe ap assassins "work" with mage items already, but it still wouldve been nice to have some more options. What do ap assassins have for utility? Abyssal if you have magic damage on your team I guess but other than that? If you count Zhonyas then you should count item 3156 and the new item as well.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Well Abyssal is good but its getting nerfed.. or changed.. but basically nerfed in preseason and rushing Zhonyas isnt that good against anything other than Zed.

How is it getting nerfed? Zed is the only relevant AD midlaner right now.

Also both the %hp and the on hit damage is getting removed from Fizz item 3070 He still has Damage over time on his W. it just isn't that big intill he W them.

Maybe ap assassins "work" with mage items already, but it still wouldve been nice to have some more options. What do ap assassins have for utility? Abyssal if you have magic damage on your team I guess but other than that? If you count Zhonyas then you should count item 3156 and the new item as well.

item 3152 item 3116 item 3030 item 3151 item 3146

Abyssal overall is a better comparison to item 3156 . The meme comparison of item 3156 and item 3157 needs to die, the items are nothing alike.

If anything, the new Edge of Night is more comparable since it is used for blocking stuff like item 3157

Penns1 votes

The 10-25 MR reduction is getting replaced by "champions inside the aura take 10% more magic damage". And by the time you finish Abyssal if you rush it its already gonna give 15+ mr reduction which is better than 10% more damage basically all the time.

Protobelt is just mobility and damage, doesnt really help your teammates (thats my definition of utility at least) and no assassin builds the other items except for Akali item 3146

Pretty sure people compare Zhonyas to Maw because both are the only mid lane items that help in AD vs AP matchups.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

The 10-25 MR reduction is getting replaced by "champions inside the aura take 10% more magic damage". And by the time you finish Abyssal if you rush it its already gonna give 15+ mr reduction which is better than 10% more damage basically all the time.

Which is effectively the same thing but worded differently since they are removing the old aura on Aegis and it's upgrades.

Protobelt is just mobility and damage, doesnt really help your teammates (thats my definition of utility at least)

Then your definition is wrong lol.

And no assassin builds the other items except for Akali item 3146

Fizz's and Katarina's ive seen build item 3151 because of the DoT in their kits.

All these champions build Rylais btw. Everyone AP does.

Pretty sure people compare Zhonyas to Maw because both are the only mid lane items that help in AD vs AP matchups.

Which is a dumb point of comparison.

You might as well compare QSS to Zhonya.. oh wait ive seen people do that too. It's stupid.

Penns1 votes

Its not really the same thing, magic pen is better than 10% more damage against carries in every stage of the game.

And its not stupid to compare those 2 items, Maw helps AD vs AP and Zhonyas helps AP vs AD. There are no other ap/armor or ad/mr items for mid laners, but Maw/Hexdrinker feels 10 times better to rush than Zhonyas/Seekers.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Its not really the same thing, magic pen is better than 10% more damage against carries in every stage of the game.

First of all, Riot has stated that it was always a Damage AMP in essence rather an actual MR shred.

Second, like i said, yes it is because item 3105 and it's Build path items' MR Aura are being removed.

And its not stupid to compare those 2 items, Maw helps AD vs AP and Zhonyas helps AP vs AD.

Except it doesn't work that way across the board in a unified manner.

There are no other ap/armor or ad/mr items for mid laners, but Maw/Hexdrinker feels 10 times better to rush than Zhonyas/Seekers.

I disagree and think it is more a case of greed on peoples parts but to each their own.

Catastrop1 votes

All these champions build Rylais btw. Everyone AP does.

Um no they don't. If people could stop spouting this nonsense it would be nice. Also, among assassins, the only one who builds it is Katarina, everyone else just kills their target before the effect even kicks in and generally have better utility/damage options available.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Um no they don't. If people could stop spouting this nonsense it would be nice. Also, among assassins, the only one who builds it is Katarina, everyone else just kills their target before the effect even kicks in and generally have better utility/damage options available.

Akali, also builds it. in fact, she builds it more than Katarina does.

And you are ironically delusional if you genuinely believe the idea that everything AP builds it is delusions.

It's true.

Like i said, all the AP assasins pretty much build like bruisers with rylais and use it for the utility when they can't properly assassinate a target in the given matchup of game.

Catastrop1 votes

Anivia Diana Ekko Karma Kassadin Leblanc Lissandra Lux TwistedFate They don't.

I actually forgot about Akali, which is funny because I build it on her too, so yeah I had a brain lapse with this one.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Anivia Diana Ekko Karma Kassadin Leblanc Lissandra Lux TwistedFate They don't.

I actually forgot about Akali, which is funny because I build it on her too, so yeah I had a brain lapse with this one.

Obviously I was being hyperbolic. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

The only champs that don't build it are the ones it is redundant on.

On your list tho, Diana does Build it. I've seen Leblancs build it as well as Kassadins.

Talinis3 votes

I agree, Riot needs to give much better items for melee AP assassins. Riot seriously doesn't seem to understand that it's not just the champion kits forcing them tank, but it's the fact that they can't survive in melee as AP with no CC. Look at other ap's that are designed to dive into melee. HUGE aoe damage and CC like kennen, morgana, rumble. AP items are NOT designed for melee combat. They are designed with champions who can stay at range, kite and poke and if they get caught then they have zhonyas to reset CDS and avoid burst damage from assassins when in the back line. If zhonyas was meant' for melees it would keep them MOBILE since everyone and their grandma can cc a target that dives into their team that comes out of zhonyas who didn't force them away with their AOE like kennen/morg etc. Can't tell you how stupid it is to dive as Fizz and zhonya and enemy cait just places a trap under it so I can't do anything.

Very, Very significant lack of AP melee designed items. Meanwhile half the AD itemization roster is designed for melee. It's not hard to see why Akali, Fizz and Ekko, Evelynn go tank while katarina has a FULL reset kit and kassadin has a 1.2 second on a 500 gap open/close and a shield. The only other AP assassin is fully ranged and has instant blinks.

Riot's reasoning in giving AD assassins items was so that they didn't just get raw damage and got other utility. Hello riot? Hello, you have a brain ja???? AP itemization only gives raw damage to AP assassins. Zhonyas, protobelt (which is mostly just used for, what you know more damage with shotgun) vs ghostblade, maw, scimitar, steraks, death's dance, botrk and now edge of night. What a joke.

Btw, the idiot above me (defensive options vs AP): Maw, scimitar, now edge of night. Can't forget the extra escape power of ghostblade. I've seen AD's build those items and a tank item and it's virtually impossible to kill them. Luden's is a weak item for assassins as the damage is poor scaling and better on range, i'd much rather get nashor as fizz, more damage than ludens

Also how bout that life steal?? No???

Then they have access to ALL the other AP mage items on TOP of this.

So do AD's in terms of itemization. AD assassins scale with RAW AD the same as AP's do. Steraks? Bloodthirster, hydra, black cleaver? don't mind if I do. O wait, they aren't optimal? Same with rod of ages on fizz or archangels. Riot has favored AD's for a long time. There is basically no itemization pool for AP melees. LET"S NOT FORGET ALSO how AD gives champions empowered autos. gotta love getting killed by zed in 2 seconds and 60% of his damage was auto attacks.

The reason AP get scaling items is because individually, the items are so much weaker than AD items. Compare tri-force to lich and the power difference by themselves is uncomparable. Dcap gives only 120 for 3800 while cleaver gives a butt load. So AP's rely on later game when all their items stack. AD get one item and they are good.

AP melee will just keep going tank unless they overload their tool kits or give items to allow them to survive in melee. The new Fizz on PBE???? Tank, AP is not an option on him.

WoonStruck2 votes

Pretty sure AP assassin items would end up with the majority of mages getting their base damages gutted.

Trust me, you don't want AP assassin items.

Penns1 votes

I dont play mages so yeah I do want them Ziggs

WoonStruck1 votes

Ayy I wouldn't mind either.

Handy Sandy 2 votes

AP assassins already have a bunch of items and mobility, it's not like they need more. also those items you listed have way too much movement speed, almost impossible for any support to peel you.

Talinis2 votes

{quoted}

AP assassins already have a bunch of items and mobility, it's not like they need more. also those items you listed have way too much movement speed, almost impossible for any support to peel you.

AD assassins have waaay more than AP's do. Whenever i'm up against an AD sin, it's stuff like MAW, scimitar, ghostblade, steraks and other items that provide a ton of tankiness. I will never feel sorry for Zed players either, who have long range harass tools and port back with ult

DeathTheHorseman1 votes

Bro too much MS. (Imagine those items on Janna....)

But it would be nice to get some item for AP assassins that is not mana based.

Demon Token: 60AP 60Armor 60MR Unique passive: Upon successfully killing an enemy champion gain a 666 HP shield that decays over 6 sec. (90 sec CD)

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

I don't think Janna would want to buy any of those items over support items. The Magic Pen and Passives/Actives on the items are all wasted gold for her.

DeathTheHorseman1 votes

But they give AP and MS (2 things she loves)

Imagine a BS Janna with 600 HP and 60AD shields that moves at Macht speed 600 MS

[slayer-jinx-catface]

AcidTheWarlock1 votes

Can we make item 3100 an AP assassin item? Maybe grants MS on Spellblade proc and take off the CDR? Something???? I feel like it's the weakest Sheen item ATM.

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