How much can you "break the meta" before its considered trolling?

dunder kill··5 votes·1,001 views

Lets say Smite Support Nunu locks in and gives the spiel of what he's going to be doing in champ select.

The community is in agreeance that this is not reportable correct?

Now your ADC Ashe grabs smite and declares "I am going to be supporting our support. My goal is to ensure the safety of our Nunu while he counterjungles. I will be maxing E first to provide more vision while we invade. I will be rushing sightstone to establish more vision in their jungle"

Is this trolling? They did the exact same thing as Nunu. They explained exactly what they were going to be doing in champ select and their strategy for victory right? So you we would have to say Ashe is not a troll correct?

Your Mid Syndra now grabs Ghost and Tp and explains "I will not be going Mid. My role is roaming mage. I will be roaming to assist teammates around the map. I will be rushing Mobi boots to maximize my roam potential"

Is it trolling yet? According to the terms we've established, this is perfectly acceptable. Assuming Ashe and Syndra don't flame or int, they're doing absolutely nothing wrong correct?

You now have a game where there is nobody in Bot or Mid lane. This is acceptable according to the terms we're establishing right?

So someone explain to me where the line is? Because what we've established is that you can't punish trolls as long as they're telling you they're going to troll in champ select lmao.

28 Comments

Ahristocats3 votes

Support is not a fucking lane

i'm tired with people not getting it

Eedat3 votes

Neither is ADC

Ahristocats2 votes

then what is it? ADC doesn't exist by the way

there are "top" "mid" "jungle" "bot" "support"

see a pathern?

Eedat2 votes

Rito enforcing their meta game on to us by forcing people into certain lanes.

Disgusting.

SwainLaneWinGame3 votes

{quoted}

Neither is ADC

"ADC" doesn't exist. There is "bot (lane)", top, etc. Then there is "support".

Eedat2 votes

Wow look at Rito enforce their metagame on us by forcing us into specific lanes. This is an outrage right?

Luxana Crowngard2 votes

troll trōl/ verb gerund or present participle: trolling 1. informal make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"

The person that would be considered to be trolling would be the Ashe player as they stated that they were to support nunu with smite by bringing smite and maxing E first to provide more vision. Any other form of what "trolling" dictates is justified by the community and this is why we are seeing threads upon threads of someone who is a nunu player with smite and support counter jungling. The Nunu player is not at fault for having a game winning strategy and to think beyond the box on how to play league of legends. The Mold that we were given should only be a mold and to those that are creative can make adjustments to the mold.

The Community doesn't want a player to bring Smite on a champion in the support position due to the mold of the game. Just because it's out of the norm.

dunder kill1 votes

Wrong.

You can't report someone for their strategy being bad as long as they aren't inting and declare what they're trying to do. Thats what the community says

Luxana Crowngard3 votes

Wrong as well because based on recent events you can report someone for not playing the meta and have it be a bannable offense.

Even if you tell your group of individuals what you are going to be doing in the game and establish your own win conditions, They may or may not like what you had to tell them and they can't coop with it and decide to consider you a troll. Win or Lose you will receive a report and after X reports you will be banned by the Tribunal.

RocketRelm1 votes

I think the key difference is that for Ashe to claim that this is a viable non-inting strategy that she employed for any reason other than to try to tilt the nunu, she would need a track record of doing this jungle roaming ADC in more than literally the one game, preferably with a non-0 win rate.

Escheton2 votes

Except when the strategy is so obviously bad that it can't be anything but a trolling move. Such as abandoning a lane althogether.

The problem we are seeing with the Nunu and Singed cases is that a lot of low elo people think it's bad, while the rest just shrugs and goes "meh, it works".

Luxana Crowngard1 votes

This is what needs to get through the heads of every Thick-skulled person that plays league of legends. If it works don't complain. It's that easy. You had a hard time? Big deal you played a vital role in the team. There are endless amounts of struggles and obstacles that one much overcome to be a "good player of League of Legends"

xBushx2 votes

I hate this...because so many times I have gone into a match on a troll pick win my lane, only to lose the game despite being 10/2/2 but being told we lost the game because I picked Cass top while also being the most fed. people will complain no matter what.

dunder kill5 votes

Oh, so only effective strategies are viable?

Alright that makes sense.

Hehe its almost like we're....... establishing some sort of meta :^)

Eedat1 votes

LOL

Escheton2 votes

{quoted}

Oh, so only effective strategies are viable?

Alright that makes sense.

Hehe its almost like we're....... establishing some sort of meta :^)

Yes. That is exactly it. The current situation came from players trying things out and seeing what is best and Riot reacting to it with buffs, nerfs and item changes. Meanwhile Riot keeps changing things and new things become effective. But the main body of players were never around when everything was still up in the air and the meta hadn't settled yet. So they see the settled meta as the only way it ever was. It's not.

That doesn't change that Ashe's idea is bad. And should be adviced against by the Nunu. Who has more experience with the situation. The premise is good; more vision, yay. But in practise she has trouble laying down those wards. Much like any squishy support has (bless their hearts tho).

DrCyanide2 votes

Top, Jungle, Middle, and Bottom aren't just names, they're physical positions on the map with their own sources of Gold/Experience. When you're playing one of those positions you're "in charge" of managing that source of Gold/Experience, at least for the early game. If you're intentionally leaving a source of Gold/Experience unmanned in the early phases of the game you're not going off meta, you're trolling. "Off Meta" isn't doing dumb things, it's trying to gain an advantage that the enemy isn't expecting.

Support has no such associated physical position, gold, or experience, which is why the likes of Support Singed and Support Nunu can work. They're taking Gold/Experience away from the enemy team.

I like the way someone else put it: The problem with Support Nunu wasn't that he was opting into a meta breaking strategy, but that his meta breaking strategy forced his ADC into the same meta breaking strategy. Like it or not, Solo Bot isn't meta. Some ADC's were fine with the strategy, some weren't, but all were forced to play off meta strategies regardless. Contrast this to when your Mid picks AP Ezreal - your champion choices might be a bit different but the strategy for Top, Jungle, Bot, and Support are the same.

Rebonack1 votes

Roaming supports were pretty common back in mid season 1 until Riot killed it with direct nerfs, indirect nerfs, and by making it harder for a solo laner to survive against a duo lane.

If duo laners didn't get bonus XP, allowing solo lanes to be on a stronger footing against them, then having a second person who runs smite and supports their whole team would be even more of a viable option.

SwainLaneWinGame1 votes

{quoted}

Roaming supports were pretty common back in mid season 1 until Riot killed it with direct nerfs, indirect nerfs, and by making it harder for a solo laner to survive against a duo lane.

If duo laners didn't get bonus XP, allowing solo lanes to be on a stronger footing against them, then having a second person who runs smite and supports their whole team would be even more of a viable option.

I'm not understanding your last paragraph, can you clarify?

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not understanding your last paragraph, can you clarify?

Sure thing.

Part of the reason why 'roaming smite support' is somewhat dodgy is because duo laners get 'free' XP from minions that magically materializes out of nowhere. On top of XP being split between them from minion deaths, they get some bonus XP as well. It's either 33% or 25%, I forget which. Practically speaking, this means that in a situation where a lane is 2v1 the two aren't going to be as behind in levels as they would be without the bonus XP. This makes it harder for a solo lane to hold their own against a duo lane. If that bonus XP didn't exist, the solo laner would be at a greater advantage.

Basically, instead of having a level 5 guy against two level 3 guys, you get a level 5 guy against two level 4 guys.

If solo vs duo weren't such a hard lane matchup, then having a roaming support rather than a bot-lane support would be less of a gamble.

SwainLaneWinGame1 votes

{quoted}

Sure thing.

Part of the reason why 'roaming smite support' is somewhat dodgy is because duo laners get 'free' XP from minions that magically materializes out of nowhere. On top of XP being split between them from minion deaths, they get some bonus XP as well. It's either 33% or 25%, I forget which. Practically speaking, this means that in a situation where a lane is 2v1 the two aren't going to be as behind in levels as they would be without the bonus XP. This makes it harder for a solo lane to hold their own against a duo lane. If that bonus XP didn't exist, the solo laner would be at a greater advantage.

Basically, instead of having a level 5 guy against two level 3 guys, you get a level 5 guy against two level 4 guys.

If solo vs duo weren't such a hard lane matchup, then having a roaming support rather than a bot-lane support would be less of a gamble.

Except in every instance where I have first hand been a part of a 2v1 or seen a 2v1 in my game, the solo laner invariably is always a level ahead (rarely, two). So while they may still get bonus XP in theory; in practice the solo laner will still be a level ahead if they get even a tiny bit of farm.

Mysticman891 votes

According to the wiki, theres a random 30.4% xp shared amongst everyone sharing the xp, so two people get 65.2% of the normal xp each instead of 50% each.

This means that the combined experience of a duo lane will exceed that of the solo laner, so while the solo person will be ahead of each duo member individually, they might still be 'behind' in effective power, although that is complicated somewhat since power scales with level not xp, and even that isn't linear.

That said, if the smite support is off getting >65.2% of a normal junglers xp, it's theoretically worthwhile from just an xp accounting perspective, and thats not even accounting for the xp the enemy jg is missing out on. If the smite support isn't successfully counter jungling that much though, then it seems pretty rough from a theoretical standpoint, much less from our 'common sense' experiences with the current meta.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

That Nunu is reported in about 50% of the "support" games. Which means that, 50% of the time, at least one of his teammates found his behaviour unenjoyable enough to ask Riot to take action.

He also does not have a positive winrate on "support" Nunu. He has 53% winrate on Nunu overall, including jungle games (which, as an OTP, he'll win more of).

Mysticman891 votes

The nunu in question was unbanned, and riot is going to have some internal meetings around this.

Right now, it's not clear, and riot acknowledges this. The hope is that they'll be able to make some decisions that result in clearly defined lines sooner rather than later.

Big Lincoln1 votes

I don't see anything wrong with any of this

is there supposed to be some moral conundrum?

Golden Tager X1 votes

As long as you are still trying to win, it isn't trolling.

The difficulty comes from trying to figure out if that guy is trolling because some people are better at disguising it than others.

SwainLaneWinGame1 votes

This is a strawman argument. Top, Mid, Jg, and Bot roles all have assigned lanes. Support is the only one that does not have an assigned lane

dunder kill1 votes

Talk about a strawman lmao.

So Riot enforcing supports to bot lane is an atrocity but enforcing other roles to lanes is perfectly acceptable? What a joke lol. Classic example of ignoring the exact logic you're trying to preach when it doesn't apply to your argument

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